IPL ... Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners ....

[Jaydev_Unadkat]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

Sen 144 k cracking yorker

 

145 k wide yorker next ball but wide

Ha bhai uske baad ka kahani batao  

[Kron]

Trundlers can do well in t20 on indian pitches all they ant. Moment trundlers play in wc they will get exposed for the trundlers they are. 

 

But yes the fast bowlers need accuracy too otherwise its a problem

 

 

Edited April 10, 2024 by Kron

[New guy]

10 hours ago, Jaydev_Unadkat said:

@New guy S

Guess what Owned you then owning you now. 
None of your favrts Sen, Tyagi, Umran are gonna make it anything big in Cricket. 

 

Which is also why we won nothing for so many years in any format. The only format we are doing the best is test where we have fast bowlers like bumrah, shami etc running through sides and not trundlers..

 

If none of those you mention make it, we will again win nothing for many more decades. You can enjoy your trundlers "making it". Their numbers are as useless as our stat padding batsmen raking up useless 50s. We will only win cups and finals once we have true agressive attacking players both in batting and bowling.

 

Medicore safe batsmen and trundlers have never won any cup in the last decade and never will. 

Edited April 11, 2024 by New guy

[Kron]

Without trying bowlers out we won't know you know what I mean

 

But Sen needs to probe himself in A tour first if he wants to play tests. 

[Number]

GT really need to look into their fast bowling if they want to be in the finals. Good spin bowling alone will not take you to finals. Mohit had skills but looks a spent force and Umesh was never a good T20 bowler even in his prime. Spencer Johnson is very raw.

[Number]

Decent comeback from Sen. Do feel Tests and ODIs will be better formats for him. Need to remain fit now and play continuously.

One correction to many posters here, he wasn't dropped after 1 ODI, he was injured when he played that and was sent to NCA where he had to spend almost 8-9 months.

[Kron]

Can we have a list of greatwst fast bowlers and how many trundlers are in there? 

Don't say mcgrath. Mcgrath was fast medium. He was 135 to 140 in prime

 

Sane as Pollock. 

 

Who bowled 120 to 130 throughput their career and was still labelled as a great of the game with sub 25 average. 

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, Kron said:

Can we have a list of greatwst fast bowlers and how many trundlers are in there? 

Don't say mcgrath. Mcgrath was fast medium. He was 135 to 140 in prime

 

Sane as Pollock. 

 

Who bowled 120 to 130 throughput their career and was still labelled as a great of the game with sub 25 average. 

 

Considered amongst the best fast bowlers( by country), whose speeds are know or can be guesstimated :

 

Aus - Lille, Thompson, Mcgrath, Lee, Cummins, Strac 

BD- Murtaza, Taskin, Fizz, Rubel 

Eng-Gough, Anderson, Broad 

Ind- Kapil, Srenath, Zaheer, Bhuvi, Bhumrah, Shami

NZ-Hadlee, Bond, Boult, Southee

Pak- Imran, Akram, Waqar, Akthar, Asif, Amir, Shaheen

SA- Donald, Pollock, Steyn, Ntini, Morkel, Rabada

SL- Vaas, Malinga

WI- 4 horsemen, Ambrose, Walsh   

 

May have missed few but these are most talked about in respective countries. Only  Southee and may be Pollock are true trundlers. Rest had good pace and sustained over a longer period and both these 2 are fairly tall bowlers playing in seam swing friendly conditions.

Bhuvi was an alrounder for UP when he came into Ind team and was batting around 5/6  in domestics. He picked pace and was decent for sometime but injuries and usual routine with Ind pacers (not fast to start with and tries to build up pace in Intnl cricket, never had repetition at that pace for that long so they break down ), he added lot of skills but injuries took the toll on him.

Vaas found success too, not sure how fast he was in his prime, but later mostly bowled cutters, v,carfty.

 

Attributes of a good fast bowler - Pace, Bounce, zip, movement and accuracy. 

If some1 has pace he would have zip, but bowler like Asif has zip at lower pace and was constantly moving the ball with accuracy and had good height

If you can roll your arm you we get movement specially non-kookaburra balls  and under/un prepared wkts (ppl do not realize how big this factor is).

All great bowers were fairly accurate 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2024 by tapandrun

[Kron]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

 

Considered amongst the best fast bowlers( by country), whose speeds are know or can be guesstimated :

 

Aus - Lille, Thompson, Mcgrath, Lee, Cummins, Strac 

BD- Murtaza, Taskin, Fizz, Rubel 

Eng-Gough, Anderson, Broad 

Ind- Kapil, Srenath, Zaheer, Bhuvi, Bhumrah, Shami

NZ-Hadlee, Bond, Boult, Southee

Pak- Imran, Akram, Waqar, Akthar, Asif, Amir, Shaheen

SA- Donald, Pollock, Steyn, Ntini, Morkel, Rabada

SL- Vaas, Malinga

WI- 4 horsemen, Ambrose, Walsh   

 

May have missed few but these are most talked about in respective countries. Only  Southee and may be Pollock are true trundlers. Rest had good pace and sustained over a longer period and both these 2 are fairly tall bowlers playing in seam swing conditions.

Bhuvi was an alrounder for UP when he came into Ind team and as batting around 5/6  in domestics. He picked pace and was decent for sometime but injuries and usual routine with Ind pacers (not fast to start with and tries to build up pace in Intnl cricket, never had repetition at that pace for that long so they break down ), he added lot of skills but injuries took the toll on him.

Vaas found success to, not sure hot fast he was in his prime, but later mostly bowled cutters, v,carfty.

 

Attributes of a good fast bowler - Pace, Bounce, zip, movement and accuracy. 

If some1 has pace he would have zip, but bowler like Asif has zip at lower pace and was constantly moving the ball with accuracy and had good height

If you can roll your arm you we get movement specially non-kookaburra balls  and under/un prepared wkts (ppl do not realize how big this factor is).

All great bowers were fairly accurate 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

from memory vaas wasnt a trundler. he was 130 to 140. so basically only 2 out of like 20 something. but they arent even atgs those 2. 

asif dint play enough. he would have been found out if he played more

pollock was fast medium in his prime. he only became a trundler after 2000 ish

southee doesnt meet the 25 average criteria. checked his bowling average vs big teams. still doesnt make it. 

 

so maybe one. philtrundler maybe but he has a padded record*. have a look at his record in india and asia overall. 

 

[tapandrun]

51 minutes ago, Kron said:

from memory vaas wasnt a trundler. he was 130 to 140. so basically only 2 out of like 20 something. but they arent even atgs those 2. 

asif dint play enough. he would have been found out if he played more

pollock was fast medium in his prime. he only became a trundler after 2000 ish

southee doesnt meet the 25 average criteria. checked his bowling average vs big teams. still doesnt make it. 

 

so maybe one. philtrundler maybe but he has a padded record*. have a look at his record in india and asia overall. 

 

Yes- most sides with rich history of good pacers do not go with trundler to start with ,if they some how get into the team they do not last long their stay is as long as they are at their v.peak. Eg - Abbas (Pak seamer) -- Played test and was amongst fastest to 50 test wkts but then quickly dropped as his end of peak was nearing.

 

Short trundler are complete no-no in Aus set-up might have heard how Deepak Chahar and Ellis were rejected. 

 

Again attributes of a good fast bowler - Pace, Bounce, zip, movement and accuracy, most team looks for these factors in a budding/new pacer and accuracy is the v.last thing it comes with time and experience, but Ind selection is right opposite- bowlers may lack all but should have accuracy hence no top world class pacer till Ind had Bhumrah.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2024 by tapandrun

[Kron]

2 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Yes- most sides with rich history of good pacers do not go with trundler to start with ,if they some how get into the team they do not last long their stay is as long as they are at their v.peak. Eg - Abbas (Pak seamer) -- Played test and was amongst fastest to 50 test wkts but then quickly dropped as his end of peak was nearing.

 

Short trundler are complete no-no in Aus set-up might have heard how Deepak Chahar and Ellis were rejected. 

 

Again attributes of a good fast bowler - Pace, Bounce, zip, movement and accuracy, most team looks for these factors in a budding/new pacer and accuracy is the v.last thing it comes with time and experience, but Ind selection is right opposite- bowlers may lack all but should have accuracy hence no top world class pacer till Ind had Bhumrah.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In short unless you have steep bounce or extreme seam movement, trundlers shouldn't be allowed to bowl. Should quit or become an AR. 

[rkt.india]

Unadkat ji 26>19. 

[Nikhil_cric]

Kuldeep Sen is already 27 so I'm not sure how much improvement can be made.

 

I don't think he braces his front leg fully despite a fairly large extension at the crease.  He may not have the strength/elasticity in his glutes to absorb the ground reaction forces.

 

Even if he has to work on that , it'll take a lot of effort to get there.

 

But the immediate concern is his front arm.  Instead of pulling down strong  from the general direction of a batsman's head, he seems to be pulling his front arm with a bent elbow and pointing probably towards square leg, thereby sacrificing a bit of pace and consistency (spraying down the legside)

 

The front arm is something he can absolutely incorporate even now. 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Unadkat ji 26>19. 

Bhai wo dimag walon ke liye.

For idiots..."fast bowling leak runs".

[Kron]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

Bhai wo dimag walon ke liye.

For idiots..."fast bowling leak runs".

Depends on pitch right. Indian pitches are not great for fast bowlers unless you can reverse but that only applies in tests. Seam movement would help if you have perfect seam..

 

Problem with indian logic amongst selectors is lack of knowledge about what type of bowlers would work in overseas conditions.

Edited April 11, 2024 by Kron

[express bowling]

8 minutes ago, Kron said:

Depends on pitch right. Indian pitches are not great for fast bowlers unless you can reverse but that only applies in tests. Seam movement would help if you have perfect seam..

 

Problem with indian logic amongst selectors is lack of knowledge about what type of bowlers would work in overseas conditions.

 

Accurate quick bowling works everywhere. Even more so when the pacer gets a bit more bounce than is expected from his height. 

 

 

[Kron]

25 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Accurate quick bowling works everywhere. Even more so when the pacer gets a bit more bounce than is expected from his height. 

 

 

But according some fans and management phaaast bowling only leaks runs. 

 

But they are judging of t20. Real quality will show in tests and odi somewhat. 

 

T20 is a phattu comp. Any one hit wonder csn do well. 

[express bowling]

Akashdeep playing today.

[tapandrun]

8 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Kuldeep Sen is already 27 so I'm not sure how much improvement can be made.

 

I don't think he braces his front leg fully despite a fairly large extension at the crease.  He may not have the strength/elasticity in his glutes to absorb the ground reaction forces.

 

Even if he has to work on that , it'll take a lot of effort to get there.

 

But the immediate concern is his front arm.  Instead of pulling down strong  from the general direction of a batsman's head, he seems to be pulling his front arm with a bent elbow and pointing probably towards square leg, thereby sacrificing a bit of pace and consistency (spraying down the legside)

 

The front arm is something he can absolutely incorporate even now. 

 

 

Brace front leg issue could that because he bowls from v.close to the stumps , see same issue with Atkinson. 

 

Both  bowls from v.close to stumps and there is immediate need to get off the danger area ??

[Nikhil_cric]

1 minute ago, tapandrun said:

Brace front leg issue could that because he bowls from v.close to the stumps , see same issue with Atkinson. 

 

Both  bowls from v.close to stumps and there is immediate need to get off the danger area ??

 

I'm not sure. But even then, it might require isometric training of some sort etc. Maybe @rkt.india can tell us if it is even in his interest to work on it right now. 

 

But that front arm has to improve. And improve quickly. That's something he can consciously work on and incorporate even while playing competitive cricket. 

 

Would make him a genuine option to choose from for India.