Harsha Bhogle releases his All-Time India Test XI

[Jay]

2 minutes ago, Baji-Rao said:

yeh i remember i used to name call too when i couldn't prove my point either........although i think that was when i was 5?

Dude you can't think. You are mentally stunted. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Jay

[maniac]

1 minute ago, Baji-Rao said:

yeh i remember i used to name call too when i couldn't prove my point either........although i think that was when i was 5?

 
so couple of years back then

[Jay]

Just now, Baji-Rao said:

Trust someone as thick as you too understand its a sport with 11 players and not 1

Then I can say the same about the so called ATg sixes beating weak India in 90s and 80s rofl. Suck a fat one. 

[CodeOfWisden]

It is indeed a travesty that we haven't produced a single ATG fast bowler yet. 

Bumrah was on the track but he needs to make a comeback. 

[Jay]

Just now, CodeOfWisden said:

It is indeed a travesty that we haven't produced a single ATG fast bowler yet. 

Bumrah was on the track but he needs to make a comeback. 

ATgs work in pairs and also need food support bowlers. 

 

Go see all top ATG bowling attacks had 3 quality bowlers playing together. India had it in separate eras. Good support bowlers are essential. 

 

Holding Marshall garner 

 

McGrath Gillespie Lee. Good support yes Lee and Gillespie aren't their best bowlers but it's the support that makes their true ATG players tend out. 

 

Donald Pollock nitini for example

 

Rabada steyn philander. Support cast matters. 

[Jay]

1 minute ago, Baji-Rao said:

LOLLLL Wasim had to share wickets. If Lone Warrior bowlers had the glory to themselves and took most of the wickets why could it smother the runs they gave away with that stack of wickets they didnt need to share with for a better average/sr?

 

Lol share wickets with 35 plus averaging players in Australia and India? Get real dude. 

 

We have seen paks best attack. India never had all their greats play together. Support cast matters. 

[Jay]

2 minutes ago, Baji-Rao said:

LOLLLL Wasim had to share wickets. If Lone Warrior bowlers had the glory to themselves and took most of the wickets why could it smother the runs they gave away with that stack of wickets they didnt need to share with for a better average/sr?

 

Ĺone warriors don't exist as ATgs. You always need good support bowlers to excel. That's why Warne who averages almost 50 in India benefitted from having McGrath alongside him. 

[zen]

Talking about ATG bowling attacks, most of the below are simply superb if we assume everyone is at his respective peak: 

 

WI: Marshall, Ambrose, Garner, Holding, Roberts, Walsh, Gibbs, ... 

Aus: Lillee, McGrath, Warne, Miller, Cummins, Starc, Lyon, O'Reilly, Thomson, ... 

SA: Donald, Steyn, Procter, Pollock, Rabada, Kallis (AR), Tahir, ... 

NZ: Hadlee, Bond, Wagner, Southee, Boult, Cairns (AR), Vettori, ... 

Pak: Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Saqlain, ... 

Eng: Barnes, Tyson, Laker, Swann, Willis, Anderson, Botham (AR), Flintoff (AR),  Larwood, Truman, Underwood, ... 

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by zen

[Jay]

10 minutes ago, Baji-Rao said:

So were those support bowlers meant to carry the bowler on their back to the crease so they can deliver and give a little kiss on every successful delivery?

hahahahahahahaha wtf does support mean for individual stats and how you perform as an individual? Support will affect TEAM performance. 

Go watch Lillee carrying his attack, go watch Imran carrying his attack, go watch Rashid Khan carrying his attack, go watch Muralitharan carrying his attack. Wasim-Waqar pairing was an anomaly which hasn't occured again. Those two were great individually and it was like placing Mcgrath and Steyn on the same team.

So many bowlers barring them have done their careers with most of the hardwork done by them. Team results differed yes, but individually they maintained their stats.

That 30 averaging Kapil and 32 averaging Zaheer isnt gonna change them individually but only how the team's success pans out. India after all these years still is in search for premier fast bowlers.

Flashes of brilliances come and go from bowlers like bumrah and Irfan P and zak but the true ATG's flashed their brilliance to the end of their careers leaving their names in records. Until India doesn't bang that, there's no point in saying bruH tOgetHer OuR 32 AvGiNg bOwlErS will be a force. Completely dismissing the fact that other nations will be putting up combined attacks too and all of them at their peaks/proper form and not when Aged 36 bowler played with aged 21 bowler together so 'we've seen their atg attack'

We have seen wasim Waqar and shoaib play together. We haven't seen srinath alongside bumrah and shami and Kapil. 

 

Kapil played 130 games 

 

Kapil averaged under 27 until 90 games which is roughly the number of games imran played. 

 

Carrying a team by yourself is impossibly. You said it yourself. It's a team sport. Bowlers average will improve If he has better support cast. Bowlers hunt in combos. 

 

Lillee had Jeff Thompson to support him. 

 

Even hadlee had good support.  

[zen]

17 minutes ago, Jay said:

We have seen wasim Waqar and shoaib play together. We haven't seen srinath alongside bumrah and shami and Kapil. 

 

Kapil played 130 games 

 

Kapil averaged under 27 until 90 games which is roughly the number of games imran played. 

 

Most folks are not going to pick Kapil for his bowling alone in an AT Asian Test 11 ... There is no point in the above

 

Kapil has been out bowled by many Ind pace/medium pace bowlers in various series in Eng, SL, etc. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by zen

[BacktoCricaddict]

The first four names I would put down on an all-time India team:

 

Sunil Gavaskar

Rishabh Pant

VVS Laxman

Kapil Dev

 

The conversations can start after that.  

[CodeOfWisden]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

ATgs work in pairs and also need food support bowlers. 

 

Go see all top ATG bowling attacks had 3 quality bowlers playing together. India had it in separate eras. Good support bowlers are essential. 

 

Holding Marshall garner 

 

McGrath Gillespie Lee. Good support yes Lee and Gillespie aren't their best bowlers but it's the support that makes their true ATG players tend out. 

 

Donald Pollock nitini for example

 

Rabada steyn philander. Support cast matters. 

No Indian fast bowler had the ability that Mcgrath, Lillee, Akram, Marshall, Steyn, Ambrose, Donald, Garner, Warne or any other ATG had. That's as simple as it gets. 

If you are an ATG bowler you will shine even if you don't have a great support cast example Richard Hadlee and Murali. 

We never had a bunch of good fast bowlers because we never had a pace bowling culture, only in the last five years, after the departure of Dhoni from test captaincy we have seen a big shift in fast bowling mentality, now the pace bowling culture is thriving. We will definitely produce an ATG in the next 10 years and other 3 or 4 26 - 28 averaging Gillespie level bowlers too. 

Curse Virat all we want but despite all his shortcomings he helped us realise the importance of fast bowling culture in India. 

[express bowling]

7 hours ago, Baji-Rao said:

25.8 aka 26 Average bowler in Test.

This is decent but how is this world class? Look at other World class bowlers average to this? Even in modern times try comparing that to of Pat Cummins and Kagiso Rabda who are the cream of the crop of todays bowling standards. For the record, even our neighbor's 3rd class bowling attack in present times are roaming with Hasan Ali and Abbas who both average 25.5 and 26 themselves respectively in tests vs SENA 

 

 

Averaging 25.8 in tests, against the best teams of one's era, is top notch actually.

 

Rabada averages 25.6 against IENA. Almost same as Bumrah against SENA.

 

For reference, Waqar averaged 28.3 and Wasim averaged 26.1 against the top teams of their era.

 

Hasan Ali is an underrated bowler in tests. He knows how to take wickets and can have a top career if the Pakistani team management trusts him instead of running after a new 12 year old pace sensation every year.

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Hasan Ali is an underrated bowler in tests. He knows how to take wickets and can have a top career if the Pakistani team management trusts him instead of running after a new 12 year old pace sensation every year.

 

Has he done well overseas ?? I havent followed him

His kind of bowling suits subcontinent but overseas i dnt knw

[Jay]

4 hours ago, zen said:

 

Most folks are not going to pick Kapil for his bowling alone in an AT Asian Test 11 ... There is no point in the above

 

Kapil has been out bowled by many Ind pace/medium pace bowlers in various series in Eng, SL, etc. 

But he did well vs west Indies and austrLia. 

[Jay]

2 hours ago, CodeOfWisden said:

No Indian fast bowler had the ability that Mcgrath, Lillee, Akram, Marshall, Steyn, Ambrose, Donald, Garner, Warne or any other ATG had. That's as simple as it gets. 

If you are an ATG bowler you will shine even if you don't have a great support cast example Richard Hadlee and Murali. 

We never had a bunch of good fast bowlers because we never had a pace bowling culture, only in the last five years, after the departure of Dhoni from test captaincy we have seen a big shift in fast bowling mentality, now the pace bowling culture is thriving. We will definitely produce an ATG in the next 10 years and other 3 or 4 26 - 28 averaging Gillespie level bowlers too. 

Curse Virat all we want but despite all his shortcomings he helped us realise the importance of fast bowling culture in India. 

Fair enough 

[Jay]

2 hours ago, CodeOfWisden said:

No Indian fast bowler had the ability that Mcgrath, Lillee, Akram, Marshall, Steyn, Ambrose, Donald, Garner, Warne or any other ATG had. That's as simple as it gets. 

If you are an ATG bowler you will shine even if you don't have a great support cast example Richard Hadlee and Murali. 

We never had a bunch of good fast bowlers because we never had a pace bowling culture, only in the last five years, after the departure of Dhoni from test captaincy we have seen a big shift in fast bowling mentality, now the pace bowling culture is thriving. We will definitely produce an ATG in the next 10 years and other 3 or 4 26 - 28 averaging Gillespie level bowlers too. 

Curse Virat all we want but despite all his shortcomings he helped us realise the importance of fast bowling culture in India. 

All of those said players had support players who were very near ATG quality like Gillespie, hazelwood, Pollock. 

 

Steyn had rabada in later years. Steyn had nitini and morkel who had good stats themselves. 

 

Donald had Pollock. 

 

Wasim had shoaib later and imran in the past. 

 

Bowling works in pairs. Infact trio. 

 

A srinath bumrah shami combo would be as deadly on helpful pitches as any other ATG attack. Add in kapil. And then ATGs like ashwin and kumble as well. 

 

Virat change the culture yes. Credit to him but he is still an atrociously bad captain. 

 

The moment india had good first change bowlers and good support cast, guess what happened? They became the best and. Most well rounded attack in the world since 2017. Why? Because collectively they became stronger due to depth and support cast. 

[wanted_desi]

Laxman over Koach for me. 

[express bowling]

6 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Has he done well overseas ?? I havent followed him

His kind of bowling suits subcontinent but overseas i dnt knw

 

 

You are right. Hassan Ali averages 38+ in away tests in SENA, although sample size is small.

 

But I still feel that he has wicket taking ability. He has played just 13 tests. If he gets more experience, he will pick wickets.

[Mosher]

8 hours ago, express bowling said:

instead of running after a new 12 year old pace sensation every year.