Afghanistan Turmoil

[rising]

5 hours ago, EnterTheVoid said:

Afghanistan might turn out like Iran post 1979. Who knows. 

 

Still a lot better then the barbarians Taliban were, from 96 - 01.

No it won't be like Iran   and Iran is different prospect their country is quite well off and educated its just leadership which is main problem 

 

And by way people are just watching Kabul  where there significant foreign presence  and Taliban is putting a good show and probably honoring their Feb agreement with US  and they are doing pretty goo job obviously helped some media who are putting positive spin. The real Taliban picture will come once the attention is  not so much on them  and they get good hold of it

Edited August 18, 2021 by rising

[Mariyam]

@Jimmy Cliff

 

This interview with Mukul Anand just after the last time the Taliban captured Kabul and their horrific execution of the then President of Afghanistan.

 

https://m.rediff.com/news/1996/2809afg1.htm

Edited August 18, 2021 by Mariyam

[coffee_rules]

6 hours ago, Mariyam said:

'Their country their system' arguement doesn't hold good here. Their system ( or methodical madness) has a direct adverse impact on everyone in the surrounding areas. In terms of ideology and mass movement of refugees. If the people of Afghanistan chose this system and the system had no impact on anyone else, didn't infringe the rights of their own citizens, then one may respect them.

 

But that is not the case. They've basically banished women from all economic/social activity. Don't go by the cute statements they make to the Western press. Those are an eyewash to get aid from the gullible Americans. Look at numbers from the areas where the Taliban were already in power long before the Kabul take over.

Next to no participation of women in any economic activity. Summary executions. Rife corruption ( well to be fair this was the case with the Kabul govt also). Implementation of Sharia. Just because they have the guns, doesn't mean that they are right.

What in this do you want us to respect?

 

Would you say ' their country their system' for the Nazis and just shrug your shoulders?

 

Hindi Musalmaan? Woh kya hota hai?
 

Shouldn’t he be condemned?

Edited August 18, 2021 by coffee_rules

[mishra]

^ What was needed was him arguing how equality(gender religious and sect) and humanity is part of Sharia Islam. Instead asshole just praises Taliban for inequality and inhumanity

[Mariyam]

18 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Hindi Musalmaan? Woh kya hota hai?
 

Shouldn’t he be condemned?

Is that a serious question?

 

AIMPLB is by far the most parochial, myisognyistic and sectarian non statutory organization that has elevated itself to position of social relevance. These guys fought tooth and nail for the continuation of the talaq e bidah (TTT) as a practice in the Shah Bano case.

These guys have cancelled scholarship for women in certain minority institutes of higher education. 

I'm sure they'd feel right at home in the New Kabul.

 

Thankfully the influence of the AIMPLB is waning over the last decade or two.

 

To answer your question they have been called out on this. By the All India Shia law board. And a whole host of others.

[Mariyam]

8 minutes ago, mishra said:

^ What was needed was him arguing how equality(gender religious and sect) and humanity is part of Sharia Islam. Instead asshole just praises Taliban for inequality and inhumanity

Obviously you have to do this to stay relevant. People call you out. You get mileage. The crazies of your religion love that you are outspoken and you get a few fans who click every next speech/communique. 

 

The Taliban obviously wouldn't give two hoots. They don't need any validation from this guy.

[rkt.india]

50 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Hindi Musalmaan? Woh kya hota hai?
 

Shouldn’t he be condemned?

He says kuch nahi hua, na koi mara, na kisi khabatini ke sath kuch ghalat hua. 

[Vilander]

6 hours ago, Mariyam said:

'Their country their system' arguement doesn't hold good here. Their system ( or methodical madness) has a direct adverse impact on everyone in the surrounding areas. In terms of ideology and mass movement of refugees. If the people of Afghanistan chose this system and the system had no impact on anyone else, didn't infringe the rights of their own citizens, then one may respect them.

 

But that is not the case. They've basically banished women from all economic/social activity. Don't go by the cute statements they make to the Western press. Those are an eyewash to get aid from the gullible Americans. Look at numbers from the areas where the Taliban were already in power long before the Kabul take over.

Next to no participation of women in any economic activity. Summary executions. Rife corruption ( well to be fair this was the case with the Kabul govt also). Implementation of Sharia. Just because they have the guns, doesn't mean that they are right.

What in this do you want us to respect?

 

Would you say ' their country their system' for the Nazis and just shrug your shoulders?

 

 

300k afgan forces chose not to fight a rag tag Taliban, so their country their system no one else can impose their will on the people of Afghanistan. I get the view on women rights but nothing can be done. 

[coffee_rules]

18 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Is that a serious question?

 

AIMPLB is by far the most parochial, myisognyistic and sectarian non statutory organization that has elevated itself to position of social relevance. These guys fought tooth and nail for the continuation of the talaq e bidah (TTT) as a practice in the Shah Bano case.

These guys have cancelled scholarship for women in certain minority institutes of higher education. 

I'm sure they'd feel right at home in the New Kabul.

 

Thankfully the influence of the AIMPLB is waning over the last decade or two.

 

To answer your question they have been called out on this. By the All India Shia law board. And a whole host of others.

Are their (AIMPLB) convictions on family disputes legally binding? Now that TTT is illegal as per law, can Muslim men still divorce based on AIMPLB laws or if the first wife objects to her husband’s second marriage , can she go to court despite personal laws allowing it? Honest q.

[Mariyam]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

Are their (AIMPLB) convictions on family disputes legally binding? Now that TTT is illegal as per law, can Muslim men still divorce based on AIMPLB laws or if the first wife objects to her husband’s second marriage , can she go to court despite personal laws allowing it? Honest q.

The AIMPLB does not have the authority to pass a verdict on anything. Neither do they have the intellect. Most of the time they open their mouth on any topic, its utter tripe that comes out. much like the video you posted above.

There is just so much confusion that exists on the topic. Even educated people think of it as a parallel justice system, which it is NOT. And this kind of ambiguity gives the AIMPLB the kind of respect it doesn't deserve.

 

The AIMPLB was set up by the GoI ( worst move ever)* to uphold and overview the Muslim Personal Law Application Act. This Act essentially oversees marriage, succession, divorce, inheritance, alimony and charities among various Muslim sects. Marriages in India among Muslims can be registered under the Muslim Personal Law Application Act or the Special Marriages Act. The 'expertise' of the AIMPLB is applicable only if one chooses to get married under the Muslim Personal Law.

 

The AIMPLB  provides legal support/advice/lobbying to the party it feels is right in cases of inheritance/ divorce. Most of the time that is the husband, in the name of keeping up with the Sharia. Or their version of it. There are no verdicts that they pass. These cases are litigated in regular family courts. But the cost for the husband even ( or rather especially if) erring is borne by the AIMPLB. The poor wife, who can't afford a long drawn legal battle has to give in eventually. This has been their modus operandi for decades. Luckily, now many NGOs have started to litigate on behalf of the poor/illiterate Muslim women.

 

IMHO the AIMPLB are the worst possible self anointed thekedars of Muslims. Single handedly destroying structure of mainly low income Muslim households since 1970s and subjugating the voice of Muslim women and not leaving them with any sense of security. I'm not surprised that people like these are fanboying over the Taliban.

 

(*) There is a Motor Vehicle Act. An analogy would be a group of random bikers/racing car drivers are anointed by the GoI and asked to over see and/or meddle in all traffic accidents/cases. IT IS THAT RIDICULOUS.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Mariyam

[coffee_rules]

3 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

the Muslim Personal Law Application Act

What about bigamy’s? This Act allows Muslim men to have multiple wives. But in the same way if the first wife goes to court , will NGOs help her litigate or there is no way she can go to court?

[Mariyam]

16 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

What about bigamy’s? This Act allows Muslim men to have multiple wives. But in the same way if the first wife goes to court , will NGOs help her litigate or there is no way she can go to court?

A letter indicating consent from the existing wife/wives duly attested by a gazetted officer of a certain grade and a registered (to any of the recognised by the GoI bodies) Ulema is required before a Muslim man can get another wife. Earlier it was okay if this letter was provided retroactively. Now that is no longer the case and all marriages w/o this letter are considered null and void.

 

All of this is in the courts. If a woman feels that the man is not fulfilling his obligations as a husband ( as laid down in the Act) she can approach the court. But the chance of getting a favourable verdict after signing the consent letter earlier is really low. Hardly any precedents that I know of.

 

In such cases, it is always better for the woman to approach an NGO instead of approaching a court directly. NGOs that help in this regard have a set template for the legal support they provide.

 

On the question of conflict between IPC and Personal Laws, the provisions of personal law are applied as there is a principle that a specific law prevails over the general law.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Mariyam

[Vilander]

7 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Would you say ' their country their system' for the Nazis and just shrug your shoulders?

20 years 2 .trillions from US several billions from nato India etc countless workers on the ground several nation building projects civil society engagement means no one shrugged responsibility but there comes a point where it is an invasion of freedom. 

[Mariyam]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

 

300k afgan forces chose not to fight a rag tag Taliban, so their country their system no one else can impose their will on the people of Afghanistan. I get the view on women rights but nothing can be done. 

I'm not an expert on this. But from I read, the Afghan forces were losing almost 40 people a day fighting the Taliban. And inflicting casualties on the Taliban as well.

This is when they had US support. When the US declared that they would leave, some time last year , the Taliban swooped in and got to many rural areas and held the families of ranking officers of the Afghan Army as hostage. All this under American noses. After hostilities resumed many Afghan army commanders had to surrender. That was the only way they could get safe passage for themselves and their families.

 

Once the US left and the Afghan army had no back up/air support they folded. 

 

Of course all this is a very simplistic view, but its not like the Afghans didn't try. They kept the Taliban/Pakistan at bay for 20 years.

 

Humanitarian intervention by the USA eventually resulted in people they claim to help falling off airplanes.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Mariyam

[mishra]

Recived a horrific video today. Public execution of a woman in early 40s or late 30s. 
They did not use stone. Taliban 2.0

 

Can UN not mandate that all the women of Taliban will be taken as refugees. Let these mofos rule their all men World.

Edited August 18, 2021 by mishra

[Vilander]

32 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

I'm not an expert on this. But from I read, the Afghan forces were losing almost 40 people a day fighting the Taliban. And inflicting casualties on the Taliban as well.

This is when they had US support. When the US declared that they would leave, some time last year , the Taliban swooped in and got to many rural areas and held the families of ranking officers of the Afghan Army as hostage. All this under American noses. After hostilities resumed many Afghan army commanders had to surrender. That was the only way they could get safe passage for themselves and their families.

 

Once the US left and the Afghan army had no back up/air support they folded. 

 

Of course all this is a very simplistic view, but its not like the Afghans didn't try. They kept the Taliban/Pakistan at bay for 20 years.

 

Humanitarian intervention by the USA eventually resulted in people they claim to help falling off airplanes.

 

 

Lol they had 5 mi24s Helis from India alone in all I think around 8 or 10 and super Tucano aircraft’s they definitely had capability to pulverize taliban on the ground. 

[Vilander]

35 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Humanitarian intervention by the USA eventually resulted in people they claim to help falling off airplanes.

If a person is desperate enough to get onto a planes folding wheels that is what happens because of pressure and extreme temp there is only one case of survival of a stowaway, again after 20 years if a country does not learn to defend itself an other 5 years or a new country India or even China in its place won’t help. 

[Vilander]

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42040/dozens-of-u-s-bought-afghan-air-force-aircraft-are-now-orphaned-at-an-uzbek-airfield

 

All of them sitting in Uzbek or taken for joy ride by taliban this is sad. State level weapons for a militant group , this definitely won’t end well. India needs long range stealth missiles. 

 

 

[rkt.india]

59 minutes ago, mishra said:

Recived a horrific video today. Public execution of a woman in early 40s or late 30s. 
They did not use stone. Taliban 2.0

 

Can UN not mandate that all the women of Taliban will be taken as refugees. Let these mofos rule their all men World.

That's old ISIS video, I think.

[mishra]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42040/dozens-of-u-s-bought-afghan-air-force-aircraft-are-now-orphaned-at-an-uzbek-airfield

 

All of them sitting in Uzbek or taken for joy ride by taliban this is sad. State level weapons for a militant group , this definitely won’t end well. India needs long range stealth missiles. 

 

 

Planes came with pilots as Ghani abandoned Kabul. Uzbeks have them. Its not coming to Taliban. I doubt they will bother give it to anyone

Edited August 18, 2021 by mishra