Mama: "Dhoni is part and parcel of CSK, Chennai and Tamil Nadu. There is no CSK without Dhoni and there is no Dhoni without CSK,"

[sensible-indian]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

coz only 1-2 factors will never win u cup ...its takes a combination of several to win

We didnt deserve coz we didnt have the team as simple 

Yeah but there were several questionable moves by Dhoni that cost us the cup.

 

2009 or 2010.

 

Not dropping Yuvi for 2014.

 

That was a easy cup win but Dhoni didnt have the guts to drop Yuvi.

[raki05]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

coz only 1-2 factors will never win u cup ...its takes a combination of several to win

We didnt deserve coz we didnt have the team as simple 

what a logic, we reached final and sf in 14 and 16 also we lost a match due to dhoni stubbornness of sending jadega before yusuf,yuvraj  and himslef in 2009 and inspite of having good players we lost that match .So how come we did not have team. Question is if dhoni is so great he would have won atleast a wc since advent of ipl. We won 2007 wc with less reputed player when no one has given us chance by defeating atg aus  a much better sa team .  And we lost in 14 and 16 wc when we had the best team out of all teams.

[ash]

It was a masterstroke by Srini to bid for Dhoni in 2008. TN did not have any International stars back then. If they had gone with a local captain like DK or Badri, Csk would have turned out to be like PBKS. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, sensible-indian said:

Yeah but there were several questionable moves by Dhoni that cost us the cup.

 

2009 or 2010.

 

Not dropping Yuvi for 2014.

 

That was a easy cup win but Dhoni didnt have the guts to drop Yuvi.

 

that ll always be their with wins n loss

had we lost 2007 WC joginder move wud have been in this category

 

biggest place where Dhoni n TM messedup in 2009 n 2010 was they didnt take it srsly , they use to play t20 in 50 overs

Yuvi did play a great knock against Aus in that Wc n we didnt have many middle order options that time which is why he even came back in 2016 Wc 

 

Reasons for winning any Wc were many many 

 

• wrong approach
• Players decline sehwag, gambhi yuvi all declined at diff times
• lack of t20 players - dhawan was our opener and his backup was rahane, even in last Wc our middle order backup was manish 
• Dhoni himself wasnt a good t20 player
• lack of all rounders 
• Sehwag injury n decline started from 2009 Wc
• Hard length got us in 2009 n 10 both times
• 2014 -SL outdid us tactically 
• 2016 again we didnt deserve and dhoni by then past his captaincy shelf life 

IPL is easy where u can carry n out of form raina n win but in International u wnt win any if ur team is about just oneplayer which was kohli . 

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, raki05 said:

what a logic, we reached final and sf in 14 and 16 also we lost a match due to dhoni stubbornness of sending jadega before yusuf,yuvraj  and himslef in 2009 and inspite of having good players we lost that match .So how come we did not have team. Question is if dhoni is so great he would have won atleast a wc since advent of ipl. We won 2007 wc with less reputed player when no one has given us chance by defeating atg aus  a much better sa team .  And we lost in 14 and 16 wc when we had the best team out of all teams.

u reached that stage on back of one guys kohli

Becoz alone captains dont win u cup and even alone good teams dnt win u cup, u need both hand in hand. Stop looking for simple answers , their arent any simple answers 

 

U think dhoni hasnt taken foolish calls for CSK or Rohit for MI . Every captain makes bad moves 

 

2007- most teams didnt understood t20 

2014 n 2016 best teams ...kaha se ?? Dhawan opener uska backup rahane , middle order ka backup manish...ye konsi best team hai. Declined yuvi, raina, dhoni in middle ...ye kaisi best team hai 

 

IF ever we had a good t20 team , its this time . Never before 

[raki05]

7 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

u reached that stage on back of one guys kohli

Becoz alone captains dont win u cup and even alone good teams dnt win u cup, u need both hand in hand. Stop looking for simple answers , their arent any simple answers 

 

U think dhoni hasnt taken foolish calls for CSK or Rohit for MI . Every captain makes bad moves 

 

2007- most teams didnt understood t20 

2014 n 2016 best teams ...kaha se ?? Dhawan opener uska backup rahane , middle order ka backup manish...ye konsi best team hai. Declined yuvi, raina, dhoni in middle ...ye kaisi best team hai 

 

IF ever we had a good t20 team , its this time . Never before 

So you should not hinged dhoni winning ipl due to owner trust. You are oversimplifying by attributing ipl win to dhoni and owner trust relationship it's one of the reason out of many and i highlighted that part only , but then you brought in team combination , players capabilities over the hill players all those stuff. But you simply forget most of the ipl which csk won with the help of overaged players, so there goes your theory of over the hill players. Also 2014 and2016 t20 team india was all around better team than any other team 2016 i agree that there were few over the hill players especially dhoni but then india was the host nation and overall better bowling and batting than rest all other team.  Anyway all i am saying is dhoni winning ipl for csk has not to do with owner trust on him only.

[Ankit_sharma03]

19 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

IPL is easy where u can carry n out of form raina n win but in International u wnt win any if ur team is about just oneplayer which was kohli . 

5 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

I think for them things work in this order

 

• have a secure n happy environment, players know their roles ........great communication (all the ex player say good things about them which isnt the case with every franchise) 
•  This makes every player give their best
• Dhoni-fleming use them at position n situation which makes them even better. After it all its a game of conditions and every players has their strength n weakness 

So keeping player in a headspace where they can give their best and then using them to their best position is how they are making decent players into champions ones.  Indeed a process 

Compare RCB,, they fail at 1st step which has been the reason that high quality players have struggled in their franchise. Only players to have done well are the ones who are secure bout their spot and know their roles- Chahal, ABDV, Maxi, Gayle

 

 

 

Padho upar , detail men likha hai...how its works like a machine that every part has to play its role

 

2 minutes ago, raki05 said:

So you should not hinged dhoni winning ipl due to owner trust. You are oversimplifying by attributing ipl win to dhoni and owner trust relationship it's one of the reason out of many and i highlighted that part only , but then you brought in team combination ,

 

3 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Also 2014 and2016 t20 team india was all around better team than any other team 2016 i agree that there were few over

Better team doesnt mean deserving...A team with 1-2 players doesnt deserve to win tittle speically with so many liabilities . It wasnt just 1-2 players Dhawan, rohit, rahane, manish, dhoni, raina, jaddu, yuvi, raina(2016)....we had many problems and bumrah n hardik were inexperienced .

 

Only this time we have gotten a very very good team and deserving one . Ill go as far as to say before this we never understood t20 cricket coz we trusted names then t20 concepts . Dnt go far around last NZ tour we were still struggling with the concepts as our middle order was shaping up to be like - kohli, iyer, manish, jadeja . Its when MI won last yr our selectors n TM wokeup to t20 concepts 

[Mariyam]

@Ankit_sharma03 great insightful posts...

 

But for the love of God, please explain your dal badlu neta behaviour.

When the season started,  ke gun gaan gaate phirte thay. By the time the season ended you were a   fan.

[Ankit_sharma03]

16 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

@Ankit_sharma03 great insightful posts...

 

But for the love of God, please explain your dal badlu neta behaviour.

When the season started,  ke gun gaan gaate phirte thay. By the time the season ended you were a   fan.

always been a CSK fan due to dhoni but was mighty impressed last season by MI- how they played t20 and how they build a franchise was a thing to learn for everyone. Its hard not to like something so good.

On the other hand i admire how CSK has basically gone opposite to most t20 concept and has been very successful. Their is a lot to learn for other franchise from these teams. Honestly it doesnt matter much to me who wins at the end 

[raki05]

22 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Padho upar , detail men likha hai...how its works like a machine that every part has to play its role

Bhai essay likhne se and saying same thing again and again doesnt make a difference, all the things what you said aged player non performing pllayers were issue with CSK as well but still dhoni went ahead and win the tournament not ones several time.  All you are doing is lining up your narrative based on results . BTW how come this team is best this team also have over the hill rohit and kohli same problem in pp, pandya  would not ball and non performing spinner only trusted bowler is JB. How come this team is better than 2014 team. Yuvi choked in final of 2014 but he performed well in few of the league matches and Raina was in his prime in 2014, we have red hot Dhawan after winning 2013 ct and prime kohli , rohit and even rahane was not dud, our bowling attack was best in the tournament and we massacred each and every team till final.  As said you are associating a logic based on performance . No team is perfect if you go an scrutinize  that deeply each and every team participating in wc have some loop holes what we see is best all around team 2014 indian team was deserved to win the wc same goes with  2009 team where due to dhoni blunder we exited out of tournament. So this logic of trust of owner doesn't and other environment stuff and all doesn't make sense. As dhoni had same leverage on indian team till 2016 he was one man show he even was able to fire the selection body in connivance with srini mama he has the best coaches in the world available but still couldn't able to win single wc. I dont buy this execuse that we were not deserved to win coz we dont have a single team in all those 7-8 t20 wc where dhoni captained us.

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 minutes ago, raki05 said:

BTW how come this team is best this team also have over the hill rohit and kohli same problem in pp, pandya  would not ball and non performing spinner only trusted bowler is JB.

 

• Coz u have Rahul, his s/r in PP in international is one the best 
• Rohit can change gear , earlier problem was both dhawan n rohit use to choke each other , With rahul PP problem isnt much
• We have attacking players in line ( earlier we had dhawan, rahane, manish, dhoni (all poor t20 players) and declined raina n yuvi
• Variety in bowling again we didnt have that 
• Players with Range and power 
• bowling is pretty good , only concern is bhuvi n shami (who has done well in UAE)

 

In this team i can only count 2 problems

• Pandya not bowling
• missing siraj and relying on bhuvi, shami 

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Yuvi choked in final of 2014 but he performed well in few of the league matches and Raina was in his prime in 2014

 

Yuvi did well only in Aus game , rest he was crap and he was even crap in 2010 Wc where Kirsten came back n complained about his weight issues to BCCI

by 2014 raina short ball was found out so he was demoted in order , at that position he wont have much impact every day but chalo ill give u 2014 raina 

47 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

raina(2016

 

btw i mentioned 2016 raina was on decline 

 

13 minutes ago, raki05 said:

we have red hot Dhawan after winning 2013 ct and prime kohli , rohit and even rahane was not dud, our bowling attack was best in the tournament and we massacred each and every team till final. 

dhawan was crap in t20 absolute crap , 2013 CT was ODI...dnt mix formats

Rohit has been avg in t20 

Rahane was trash 

 

14 minutes ago, raki05 said:

I dont buy this execuse that we were not deserved to win coz we dont have a single team in all those 7-8 t20 wc where dhoni captained us.

and i cant buy that a side filled with so many liabilities deserve to win t20 Wc 

[Ankit_sharma03]

17 minutes ago, raki05 said:

So this logic of trust of owner doesn't and other environment stuff and all doesn't make sense.

it makes sense in franchise enviorment , listen to players who have played in CSK and i dnt need ur opinon on that coz u n me havent played for CSK. Guys like watson, uthappa, bhajji have all mentioned how they felt diff in CSK as compare to other franchise . Even gambhir has talked about it how other plays told him the enviorment is so diff in CSK.

 

https://www.news18.com/cricketnext/news/gambhir-deciphers-csk-code-rues-involvement-of-other-owners-in-cricketing-decisions-of-ipl-1763197.html

 

It makes sense coz owners interference have messed teams like DD n KXIP, listen to sehwag in cricbuzz show he has told how they interfere so much and mess up everything. 

 

Every thing matters- no one factor will ever win u cups, u need several factors clicking together to win tournaments. My post will feel like an essay coz their is no easy answer. U want answer in yes no or one solution, sorry their is no one simple answer to anything. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

“Given the circumstances, if the owners interfere in on-field matter, can you really blame them? But Chennai Super Kings are different. MS Dhoni is their de-facto cricketing boss. I have heard from Dhoni that no one from corporate side influences any cricketing calls. You can argue that it cuts both ways that since CSK have played record seven finals there is every reason for Dhoni to be given a free hand,” he wrote.

 

https://cricketaddictor.com/cricket/gautam-gambhir-chennai-super-kings-ipl-franchises/

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

“Given the circumstances, if the owners interfere in on-field matter, can you really blame them? But Chennai Super Kings are different. MS Dhoni is their de-facto cricketing boss. I have heard from Dhoni that no one from corporate side influences any cricketing calls. You can argue that it cuts both ways that since CSK have played record seven finals there is every reason for Dhoni to be given a free hand,” he wrote.

 

https://cricketaddictor.com/cricket/gautam-gambhir-chennai-super-kings-ipl-franchises/

 

for ppl who didnt understand how owners also play a huge role 

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

it makes sense in franchise enviorment , listen to players who have played in CSK and i dnt need ur opinon on that coz u n me havent played for CSK. Guys like watson, uthappa, bhajji have all mentioned how they felt diff in CSK as compare to other franchise . Even gambhir has talked about it how other plays told him the enviorment is so diff in CSK.

 

https://www.news18.com/cricketnext/news/gambhir-deciphers-csk-code-rues-involvement-of-other-owners-in-cricketing-decisions-of-ipl-1763197.html

 

It makes sense coz owners interference have messed teams like DD n KXIP, listen to sehwag in cricbuzz show he has told how they interfere so much and mess up everything. 

 

Every thing matters- no one factor will ever win u cups, u need several factors clicking together to win tournaments. My post will feel like an essay coz their is no easy answer. U want answer in yes no or one solution, sorry their is no one simple answer to anything. 

 

how come DC are performing now with same owners?

 

Ganguly gave the same excuse of his performance at KKR while Gambhir said he got free hand. Sehwag Ganguly ka hi chela hai.

[raki05]

6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Yuvi did well only in Aus game , rest he was crap and he was even crap in 2010 Wc where Kirsten came back n complained about his weight issues to BCCI

by 2014 raina short ball was found out so he was demoted in order , at that position he wont have much impact every day but chalo ill give u 2014 raina 

 

btw i mentioned 2016 raina was on decline 

 

dhawan was crap in t20 absolute crap , 2013 CT was ODI...dnt mix formats

Rohit has been avg in t20 

Rahane was trash 

 

and i cant buy that a side filled with so many liabilities deserve to win t20 Wc 

I dont agree with you at all,riana was found out on 2014 when he was still bashing around centuries in eng, aus and won some important crucial matches in aus t20 series. And who was the substitute, Dhawan became trash over a period of time if anyone in india opening well in odi they automatically get opening slot in t20 dhawan along with Rohit were the best option at that time. BTW same problem exists now rohit and Kohli is complete trip still you announce it's the best team, and you dint answer if india lost all wc due to liablities , how come csk win with all sanile old retired player who don't even play regular cricket most of the players which they have are either retired or hadly play t20 for ther international team.

[raki05]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

how come DC are performing now with same owners?

 

Ganguly gave the same excuse of his performance at KKR while Gambhir said he got free hand. Sehwag Ganguly ka hi chela hai.

Ya just because people has habit of overhyping stuff it's not truth. Gambhir has habit of saying utter tripe stuff lately. BTW Dhoni has given free hand to screw india for 10-11 years and he did that perfectly, Ankit Sharma than blame teams over the heal players for us not winning tournament. Where as CSK has won all the ipl tourney with retired players.

[raki05]

8 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Guys like watson, uthappa, bhajji have all mentioned how they felt diff in CSK as compare to other franchise . Even gambhir has talked about it how other plays told him the enviorment is so diff in CSK.

It doesn't matter what they say i am not questioning them i am questioning your theory. You said India lost tourney due to over the heal players how come csk won with these retired players who doesn't even get chance in international and hardly play cricket entire year. Gambhir also said manish pandey should be in t20 squad and he is giving some utter chomu statement lately. You are the one who was creating thread over gambhir's idiotic statement and suddenly his statement became gospel coz he is align with your narrative.

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, raki05 said:

2014 when he was still bashing around centuries in eng, aus

take a look at that england attack that he bashed , it was so bad that they changed it in an year 

raina has no 100 in Aus 

 

2 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Dhawan became trash over a period of time if anyone in india

dhawan was always trash in t20, always and his substitute was rahane even more trash

yes our best options were quite poor which is why we didnt deserve 

 

3 minutes ago, raki05 said:

BTW same problem exists now rohit and Kohli is complete trip still you announce it's the best team, and you dint answer if india lost all wc due to liablities

hows is kohli bad ? Rohit wont look bad with hitter around....earlier he had batsman who choked him and it didnt suit his game . Its about partnerships

 

4 minutes ago, raki05 said:

how come csk win with all sanile old retired player who don't even play regular cricket most of the players which they have are either retired or hadly play t20 for ther international team.

 

I hve , u didnt read my essay coz u wanted simple answer. My 1st line was IPL is easy as compare to international so all these guys can match standards like rayudu who has been an unsung hero in IPL or dhoni himself apart from last 2 yrs have been good in IPL . 

Also its far easy to make a IPL side then national side. In national side if u drop a big name their so much cry like recently with dhawan or even at that time with yuvi but in IPL u buy what u want. This may look like an old side but fleming n dhoni have smartly assembled them. I think i have answered all ur question ...if u want answers it all their above .