i pity the fool who think T20 decides a team's worth

[zen]

T20 tournaments are mostly about form esp. if it is a short one, there may be no time to regain form. Like in any format, on a given day, any team can surprise.

 

Having said that I expect good teams to get the strategy and tactics right, and usually be among the top 3-4 teams. Mental toughness and fearlessness are also factors that make teams good.

 

Not surprised that Aus and NZ are playing the final. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by zen

[goose]

Afridi the best bowler in the tournament, arguably, made to look like a fool at the end.

[goose]

26 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Toss was a big advantage here 

 

chasing on these pitches was probably an advantage. you know how hard you have to go. on belters 200 on the board and you have score board pressure

[deathmonger]

All toss wins.

[mishra]

44 minutes ago, goose said:

i pity the fools who rate their side based on T20 performance. it's a fruit machine. random number generator. tiddly winks.

 

england pummeled australia - guess who's in the final!

 

pakistan beat nz - guess who's is in the final!

 

wake up people!

 

it's high drama, very exciting. but it's no measure of anything. you can certainly be bad enough to lose. you can't force the issue though. no pre-tournament favorite has ever won the T20 WC.

 

50 overs is still the competition that matters by some distance.

 

shastri was right.

 

 

 

 

50 overs is t20 drama twice over. We need to scrap 2 new ball rule and third PP 

[goose]

21 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Well it does...  Playing scoops reverse sweeps switch hits..  Require talent & skill.  And Australia showed their players have the skill set to deliver on the biggest stage.  Indians don't have that talent nor does Pakistanis.   Sri lankans can do it among Asians...  That's why I love watching them play. 

T20 has different skills different strategies..  Power hitters.  It's a format we haven't been able to grasp since 2007.

 

I would have gone mental had an Indian player finished the game like this. 

i'm not doubting the importance of those skills. i just prefer to see them used in a different format - tests and 50 overs.

 

taking a penalty or free kick is a skill, an important one. penalty shoot-outs, however, are something else entirely.

 

 

[goose]

31 minutes ago, zen said:

T20 tournaments are mostly about form esp. if it is a short one, there may be no time to regain form. Like in any format, on a given day, any team can surprise.

 

Having said that I expect good teams to get the strategy and tactics right, and usually be among the top 3-4 teams. Mental toughness and fearlessness are also factors that make teams good.

 

Not surprised that Aus and NZ are playing the final. 

England and Pakistan have been very good.

[zen]

Just now, goose said:

England and Pakistan have been very good.

and they were in SF too … though I expected a NZ-AUS final 

[Lone Wolf]

9 minutes ago, goose said:

i'm not doubting the importance of those skills. i just prefer to see them used in a different format - tests and 50 overs.

 

taking a penalty or free kick is a skill, an important one. penalty shoot-outs, however, are something else entirely.

 

 

Yes we do see that in 50 overs cricket as well..  But T20 elevated this...  You have to do this sometimes in the powerplay itself. 

Once our domestic coaches start teaching our young players these strokes we will be a different team. 

[kepler37b]

1 hour ago, goose said:

i pity the fools who rate their side based on T20 performance. it's a fruit machine. random number generator. tiddly winks.

 

england pummeled australia - guess who's in the final!

 

pakistan beat nz - guess who's is in the final!

 

wake up people!

 

it's high drama, very exciting. but it's no measure of anything. you can certainly be bad enough to lose. you can't force the issue though. no pre-tournament favorite has ever won the T20 WC.

 

50 overs is still the competition that matters by some distance.

 

shastri was right.

 

 

 

 

In WC, the sample size is laughably small. 1 match is NOT a predictor at all. 

 

I would say the format like IPL, done once every 4 years, will add lot of value. And it will make sure that the best teams reach semis. I would go forward and say, remove the semis and final. The team that tops the table should be declared as winner.

 

 

[New guy]

1 hour ago, goose said:

 

this is not about India's performance. there's lots of other threads about that.

is that the reason why you ignored the rest of the post with examples from ODI world cups and tests? Nice try dude

[New guy]

1 hour ago, goose said:

Afridi the best bowler in the tournament, arguably, made to look like a fool at the end.

And this has happened in ODI world cups MANY MANY times (a bowler who did great suddenly doing bad in a crucial moment).  Heck has happened in tests too. How is this unique to T20s?

[New guy]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

That guy has a habit of going on tangents and pontificating nonsense to himself...

So you missed the examples from ODI world cups and tests in the post which refuted the OPs points? 

 

Dude there is no single poster more smug and arrogant than you on this forum, the way you are rude to every single poster here is astounding. . Do you really think being an admin of a fringe cricket forum makes you someone important or gives you power? 

Edited November 11, 2021 by New guy

[maniac]

Maybe Op has a point but still it takes skill and mental strength to play the kind of innings Wade and Stoinis played today.

 

A better fielding effort from Pakistan could have won them the game and their fielding worth is what it is.

 

So yes T20 has scope for some fluke but every team that played in the semis was the best  balanced T20 team in the tournament.

 

SA finished 5th and India 6th proportional to their performance.

 

Bangladesh, WI,SL,Afghan and associates got knocked out.

 

Maybe Op would have a point of WI,SL,SA and Afghan were playing the semis.

[goose]

14 hours ago, New guy said:

A 10 wicket thrashing and a first round exit cannot be justified no matter how many excuses you make 

 

Also england pummeling australia has nothing to do with kiwis playing better than england

 

This has happened MANY MANY tines in ODIs and tests too so dobt understand your logic, Australia pummled kiwis in NZ, we pummeled australia but we lost to Kiwi

 

Pakistan got pummled by india yet won the 92 cup. South africa was undefeated and dominated many ODI world cup league yet got pummeled in semis and quarters

 

Pretending this only happens in t20s is hilarious 

 

 

it does happen in 50 overs too, but it's a beautiful thing. it doesn't happen by inherent design.

 

 

[goose]

10 hours ago, maniac said:

Maybe Op has a point but still it takes skill and mental strength to play the kind of innings Wade and Stoinis played today.

 

A better fielding effort from Pakistan could have won them the game and their fielding worth is what it is.

 

So yes T20 has scope for some fluke but every team that played in the semis was the best  balanced T20 team in the tournament.

 

SA finished 5th and India 6th proportional to their performance.

 

Bangladesh, WI,SL,Afghan and associates got knocked out.

 

Maybe Op would have a point of WI,SL,SA and Afghan were playing the semis.

 

of course passages of play are worthy of praise.

 

T20 + knockout is a woefully inadequate way to separate the top 4 sides and that is just not good enough when the field is 8 decent sides.

 

[goose]

try this. look at the points table at the end of any IPL season. everyone plays 14 matches. that's 28 max points available each side. fair to say a league played over several matches should lead to clear winners and losers at the end of the season. however, the points difference between 2nd and 6th place (the difference between playing the qualifier and going home) is always 2 or 4 points. the table is turned on it's head basis the outcome of a single game between those two sides (4pts swing). this is pure farce and is inherent to T20. if six weeks and 60 matches of league T20 still cannot deliver a satisfactory winner what chance 3 knockouts in a WC?

[bones]

England fan here.

 

I'm not saying this because of our defeat, but in truth T20 has always been volatile. Average cricketers are made to look like heroes. I will name a few Joginder Sharma, Kieswetter, Brathwaite, Wade & Mitchell to name a few. Now will any of these guys go down as the games greats? Nope they're bang average and wouldn't ever be considered anything else by anyone. Heck they're known/remembered for a few moments of action. None of them could replicate performances in 50 over cricket let alone test matches.

 

T20 cricket is serious business now so everyone has a concerted effort in but it's not real cricket.

 

That is what leads me and many others to the belief that for the elite form (tests) of the game to remain relevant around the world we need 50 over cricket scrapped.

 

 

[goose]

13 hours ago, New guy said:

And this has happened in ODI world cups MANY MANY times (a bowler who did great suddenly doing bad in a crucial moment).  Heck has happened in tests too. How is this unique to T20s?

T20 systematically permits batsmen to not have to value their wicket. there is only one route to victory. hit out or lose. cricket is beautiful because of the constant trade-offs. take that away and it's a differerent sport.

[goose]

19 minutes ago, bones said:

England fan here.

 

I'm not saying this because of our defeat, but in truth T20 has always been volatile. Average cricketers are made to look like heroes. I will name a few Joginder Sharma, Kieswetter, Brathwaite, Wade & Mitchell to name a few. Now will any of these guys go down as the games greats? Nope they're bang average and wouldn't ever be considered anything else by anyone. Heck they're known/remembered for a few moments of action. None of them could replicate performances in 50 over cricket let alone test matches.

 

T20 cricket is serious business now so everyone has a concerted effort in but it's not real cricket.

 

That is what leads me and many others to the belief that for the elite form (tests) of the game to remain relevant around the world we need 50 over cricket scrapped.

 

 

i'm with you until the last line. 50 overs will always be the perfect compromise between the long form and knockout WC competition. test series should always start with three 50 over games. lose T20 internationals altogether.