Is the current Aussie pace attack in tests better than ours ? Do we have an X-factor in our test team compared to the Aussies ?

[Jay]

24 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

Another possible advantage that India has is -- Australia is weaker without Cummins than India is without Bumrah. 

 

 

 

 

This kaveri jha is good but umesh post prime is still better even now overall.  Prasidh will be the 4th pacer soon. He has more potential than jha and neser. 

Boland is good but let's be honest he played vs a toothless pommy batting unit who are short in confidence. 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Jay

[rangeelaraja]

23 minutes ago, Jay said:

This kaveri jha is good but umesh post prime is still better even now overall.  Prasidh will be the 4th pacer soon. He has more potential than jha and neser. 

Boland is good but let's be honest he played vs a toothless pommy batting unit who are short in confidence. 

 

 

yeah..we have pretty good back ups 

[Vijy]

48 minutes ago, First class said:

Current Australian pace attack is better than current Indian pace attack. Indian pace attack is  2nd best closely followed by NZL. 

 

Here is my ranking of current pace attack, not considering unfit and currently not available players.

 

1-Australia 

2-India 

3-NZL

4-England

5-Pakistan

6-SA

7-WI

8-SL

9-Zimb

10-Ireland

11: BD

Have you seen the Oz attack records in SC (especially India)? Starc is poor, Hazel is only a "holding" (defensive) bowler, and even Cummins is not that strong. Whereas Shami, Umesh, etc. extract much more reverse swing. The thread is about having a pace attack that can do well in all conditions, including SC

Edited December 31, 2021 by Vijy

[Jay]

3 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Have you seen the Oz attack records in SC (especially India)? Starc is poor, Hazel is only a "holding" bowler, and even Cummins is not that strong. Whereas Shami, Umesh, etc. extract much more reverse swing. The thread is about having a pace attack that can do well in all conditions, including SC

No logic prevails them. When we have our own sepoy fans who overrate foreign players and undermine our own despite the fact that stats and performances reflect our superiority then we can't expect much from a bhai. 

[Trichromatic]

This bowling line up will not concede 300+ on final day against any batting line up.

[Jay]

17 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

This bowling line up will not concede 300+ on final day against any batting line up.

Aussie bowling is more ruthless in getting teams all out when they are on top hence you see 36, 68 etc. Tbf Indian bowlers don't get the opportunity to ply their trade in bouncy wickets. But Indian attack is more relentless in restricting teams from posting big totals and getting them all out under 200 range. 

 

Aussies are good for demolishing teams under 100 if they are on song. Indian attack is more consistent, relentless and will stop you for well below par scores but they aren't good at blowing teams away for 100 imo. We let the tail wag a bit. When Aussie attack is on top and know they are close to victory, they can rout teams. They aren't consistent. We are consistent hence we are better. 

 

More than anyone ash and jaddu benefited from our potent attack. More cheap wickets. 

 

[Adamant]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

This bowling line up will not concede 300+ on final day against any batting line up.

If we are taking one gam as example then Cummins won't choke in WTC finals.

 

[Adamant]

Cummins ~ Bumrah (not much to separate between them) it's just that Cummins doesn't get injured these days. 

 

Hazelwood = Shami  (haze ahead in Eng Nz, Shami ahead in Sa and Ind) 

 

Siraj = Starc (Siraj will get better though) 

 

I think we are pretty even. 

 

As for Reserves 

 

Ishant > Boland, Neser etc etc

 

 

[Chakdephatte]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

If we are taking one gam as example then Cummins won't choke in WTC finals.

Need to say it the umpteenth time. We lost the WTC final for batting, and just because of batting. Draw was written all over it if not for everyone throwing away their wickets.

 

We never lost defending a 180+ target for years. That day, they had just 141. In NZ, they had 132 and 9 to defend in two games.

[Jay]

26 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

Need to say it the umpteenth time. We lost the WTC final for batting, and just because of batting. Draw was written all over it if not for everyone throwing away their wickets.

 

We never lost defending a 180+ target for years. That day, they had just 141. In NZ, they had 132 and 9 to defend in two games.

That's what I said. We have legit the 5th best batting in the world. Lucky for us we have the number 1 pace attack and the number 1 spinner in the world. 

 

Our batting is beyond mediocre. Our bowling is carrying our team. We never lose when there is runs on board. Atleast 180 plus is correct. 

 

Aussies never defended a under 200 score vs us either. 

 

Pink ball 36 was a fluke win. Even that test Our bowlers dominated them. If not for dropped catches, we would have won that game too. 

It only happened because we have weak batting. 

 

You have to compare their respective bowling attack vs other teams and in terms of average and strike rate Indian pacers are still superior In most conditions except in kiwi land and to a lesser extent in australia although its very close there too.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I think Aussie attack is better but overall I'd give India an edge due to our spin attack. 

Cummins Hazelwood are tad younger than Shami Umesh..but not Bumrah...  Only Bumrah & Shami compete with them neck to neck quality wise.  Their third fourth seamer are better. 

There's little to choose between both attacks & margin is quite small...  That's where India's spin attack makes the difference..  We outbowl their spinner Lyon on last 2 tours. 

India>Australia (due to quality spin) 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Lone Wolf

[Lone Wolf]

15 minutes ago, Jay said:

That's what I said. We have legit the 5th best batting in the world. Lucky for us we have the number 1 pace attack and the number 1 spinner in the world. 

 

Our batting is beyond mediocre. Our bowling is carrying our team. We never lose when there is runs on board. Atleast 180 plus is correct. 

 

Aussies never defended a under 200 score vs us either. 

 

Pink ball 36 was a fluke win. Even that test Our bowlers dominated them. If not for dropped catches, we would have won that game too. 

It only happened because we have weak batting. 

 

You have to compare their respective bowling attack vs other teams and in terms of average and strike rate Indian pacers are still superior In most conditions except in kiwi land and to a lesser extent in australia although its very close there too.

 

Ridiculous if Aussies wouldn't have dropped catches in MCG of Rahane we would have lost as well..  Both matches cancelled out.  Drop catches are part of the game. 

Both teams dropped catches in Sydney too

[Jay]

12 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Ridiculous if Aussies wouldn't have dropped catches in MCG of Rahane we would have lost as well..  Both matches cancelled out.  Drop catches are part of the game. 

Both teams dropped catches in Sydney too

We dropped more iirc. Labu and Smith had multiple lives. This labu's luck will run out soon. Good player but a bit lucky. 

Actually that further supports my point. We have worse fielders compared to Aussies yet we average better. 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Jay

[Trichromatic]

2 hours ago, Adamant said:

If we are taking one gam as example then Cummins won't choke in WTC finals.

 

 

There are lot of examples of consistent performances.

 

What makes you think that Cummins won't choke in WTC finals. He was playing when England chased 362 at Headingly with Cummins having figure of 1/80 on day 5.

[Trichromatic]

2 hours ago, Adamant said:

Cummins ~ Bumrah (not much to separate between them) it's just that Cummins doesn't get injured these days. 

 

Hazelwood = Shami  (haze ahead in Eng Nz, Shami ahead in Sa and Ind) 

 

Siraj = Starc (Siraj will get better though) 

 

I think we are pretty even. 

 

As for Reserves 

 

Ishant > Boland, Neser etc etc

 

 

 

Reserves is vastly superior for India. 

 

India managed to take 20 wickets at without Shami, Bumrah, Ashwin, Ishant.

 

Even Saini was injured in 4th test.

 

Umesh, Ishant, Thakur - all of them can be 3rd/4th pacer in any team in world.

[Jay]

31 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

I think Aussie attack is better but overall I'd give India an edge due to our spin attack. 

Cummins Hazelwood are tad younger than Shami Umesh..but not Bumrah...  Only Bumrah & Shami compete with them neck to neck quality wise.  Their third fourth seamer are better. 

There's little to choose between both attacks & margin is quite small...  That's where India's spin attack makes the difference..  We outbowl their spinner Lyon on last 2 tours. 

India>Australia (due to quality spin) 

How is third and 4th better? Or you mean now? Yes now sure. Prime no. Umesh prime, ishant prime and siraj now are clearly better. 

[Lone Wolf]

31 minutes ago, Jay said:

We dropped more iirc. Labu and Smith had multiple lives. This labu's luck will run out soon. Good player but a bit lucky. 

Actually that further supports my point. We have worse fielders compared to Aussies yet we average better. 

 

Nope Gill got dropped on 0 at MCG Ist inns by Labu & he made 40 odd & by Paine as well.  We all know Rahane's got dropped multiple times.  Labu also got dropped multiple times & so did Paine in Adelaide. 

In Sydney as well. 

Both teams were horrible with their catching & Australia got their Share in Adelaide & we got MCG...  We won the series fair n square in Brisbane. 

[Lone Wolf]

19 minutes ago, Jay said:

How is third and 4th better? Or you mean now? Yes now sure. Prime no. Umesh prime, ishant prime and siraj now are clearly better. 

Umesh of 2017-19 is a beast....  Probably the greatest Asia specialist bowler ever seen on planet.   He has been inconsistent overseas but he never gets to play that much as well.   He has done decently recently in overseas with ability bowl jaffas outta nowhere..  Root in Oval for example.. 

Only blemish for him recently is NZ tour & Christchurch game in 2020..  That's when he failed badly. 

 

[Jay]

30 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Nope Gill got dropped on 0 at MCG Ist inns by Labu & he made 40 odd & by Paine as well.  We all know Rahane's got dropped multiple times.  Labu also got dropped multiple times & so did Paine in Adelaide. 

In Sydney as well. 

Both teams were horrible with their catching & Australia got their Share in Adelaide & we got MCG...  We won the series fair n square in Brisbane. 

We dropped just as much in mcg. Labu had multiple lives. He scored big dint he? Can't remember. Smith got out early. Rahane is a chewtiya. 

 

Aussies have better batting and fielders. We have better bowling. Our younger gen batsmen seem better if we actually pick them. 

[HamHindustani]

Our attack can match the Aussies in SENA. Our attack is better than Aussies in the subcontinent.