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"Slip Of Tongue": Former Pakistan Skipper Disagrees With Rohit Sharma Terming Ravichandran Ashwin An "All-Time Great"

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By sarcastic
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Jay Grand Master

Jay

Posted
Posted

You can literally analyse and dissect stats of every bowler barring perhaps mcgrath and subvert the notion about them being ATGs. Anyway zen's theory automatically disqualifies quite a few true ATG top tier bowlers Lel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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vvvslaxman Grand Master

vvvslaxman

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Jay said:

You can literally analyse and dissect stats of every bowler barring perhaps mcgrath and subvert the notion about them being ATGs. Anyway zen's theory automatically disqualifies quite a few true ATG top tier bowlers Lel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thsi white filtering obsession has been around ever since we started using this SENA term. This was created specifically for the last 10 years. Not before. There was no such thing as SENA in the 2000s, 1990s or before. Nobody hyped performances in Australia. India utterly dominated Australia in Australia during the 80s Even in England , India just missed a white wash.

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Jay Grand Master

Jay

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Thsi white filtering obsession has been around ever since we started using this SENA term. This was created specifically for the last 10 years. Not before. There was no such thing as SENA in the 2000s, 1990s or before. Nobody hyped performances in Australia. India utterly dominated Australia in Australia during the 80s Even in England , India just missed a white wash.

People like zen are sycophants so it's expected. They like to pander towards the white brethren due to colonisation. 

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vvvslaxman Grand Master

vvvslaxman

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Jay said:

People like zen are sycophants so it's expected. They like to pander towards the white brethren due to colonisation. 

 

It is funny we use that filter agaisnt England/Australia in the 80s. West Indies played 43 matches vs  England/Australaia during the 80s Won 28 Lost 3.  England did not win a single test against West Indies in the 80s home or away.  But lost 17. Yet we rate our performance against England more than West Indies. 

 

Edited by vvvslaxman
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Jay Grand Master

Jay

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

It is funny we use that filter agaisnt England/Australia in the 80s. West Indies played 43 matches vs  England/Australaia during the 80s Won 28 Lost 3.  England did not win a single test against West Indies in the 80s home or away.  But lost 17. Yet we rate our performance against England more than West Indies. 

 

BTW did you know ATGs like wackqar had an average of 35 in sewai

Even the mighty so called wasim had an average of 29 vs sewai. So much for being inferior to philander Lel. Yes I included india in sewa instead of sena because Kiwis were a joke in those days. 

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Lord Grand Master

Lord

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Vilander said:

lets see some Ashwin facts.

 

SENA Away - Much worse that Prasanna/Chandrasekhar who are the best Indian spinners ever, comparable in certain aspects to Kumble/Bedi but worse, more at Jadeja, Sashtri level, even they have better average and strikerate. Harbhajan appears marginally superior. If we draw 'good' line with Harbhajan  - then Ashwin might just be below as not good enough along with Jadeja.

 

 

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=2;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;host=1;host=2;host=3;host=5;orderby=wickets;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

Home or away away (home of opposition) http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif
Host country Australia http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or England http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or New Zealand http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or South Africa http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif
Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif
Ordered by wickets taken (descending)
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Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns Balls Runs Wktshttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/blackArrowDown.gif BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10  
SK Warne (AUS) 1993-2006 43 84 12951 5358 239 7/165 12/246 22.41 2.48 54.1 11 3 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
A Kumble (INDIA) 1990-2008 35 67 11317 5224 141 8/141 12/279 37.04 2.76 80.2 5 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
LR Gibbs (WI) 1961-1976 33 61 11759 3950 129 6/39 11/157 30.62 2.01 91.1 9 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
M Muralitharan (ICC/SL) 1995-2007 23 36 7576 3337 125 9/65 16/220 26.69 2.64 60.6 10 5 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
CV Grimmett (AUS) 1926-1936 18 33 7718 2649 111 7/40 13/173 23.86 2.05 69.5 12 4 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
AL Valentine (WI) 1950-1961 22 38 7684 2422 94 8/104 11/204 25.76 1.89 81.7 6 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
BS Bedi (INDIA) 1967-1979 25 42 7076 2789 90 6/127 10/194 30.98 2.36 78.6 5 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
S Ramadhin (WI) 1950-1961 22 36 7699 2466 89 7/49 11/152 27.70 1.92 86.5 8 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
WJ O'Reilly (AUS) 1934-1946 15 27 5196 1801 85 7/54 11/129 21.18 2.07 61.1 7 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Mushtaq Ahmed (PAK) 1990-2001 19 31 5156 2361 84 7/56 10/171 28.10 2.74 61.3 6 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
NM Lyon (AUS) 2011-2019 24 46 5572 2762 83 6/49 9/161 33.27 2.97 67.1 2 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
EAS Prasanna (INDIA) 1967-1978 20 34 5771 2336 78 8/76 11/140 29.94 2.42 73.9 5 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
HJ Tayfield (SA) 1952-1960 17 27 5947 2027 78 7/81 13/165 25.98 2.04 76.2 6 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
DL Underwood (ENG) 1970-1980 18 34 5300 1899 74 7/113 12/97 25.66 2.14 71.6 4 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
BS Chandrasekhar (INDIA) 1967-1979 19 32 4994 2225 71 6/38 12/104 31.33 2.67 70.3 6 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
DL Vettori (ICC/NZ) 1997-2011 26 39 6077 2711 70 6/87 8/229 38.72 2.67 86.8 5 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Danish Kaneria (PAK) 2003-2010 17 33 5179 2682 69 7/168 8/204 38.86 3.10 75.0 4 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
FJ Titmus (ENG) 1962-1975 22 39 7194 2414 68 7/79 7/79 35.50 2.01 105.7 3 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
J Briggs (ENG) 1884-1898 23 32 3417 1400 67 8/11 15/28 20.89 2.45 51.0 4 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
H Trumble (AUS) 1890-1902 17 30 3691 1491 67 8/65 12/89 22.25 2.42 55.0 5 3 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
R Ashwin (INDIA) 2011-2022 23 40 5685 2709 66 4/55 7/121 41.04 2.85 86.1 0 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
R Peel (ENG) 1884-1895 14 24 4169 1358 63 6/67 9/58 21.55 1.95 66.1 3 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Harbhajan Singh (INDIA) 1998-2011 19 34 4796 2476 62 7/120 7/102 39.93 3.09 77.3 3 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
HMRKB Herath (SL) 2005-2017 21 35 4986 2437 57 5/79 9/128 42.75 2.93 87.4 2 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
R Benaud (AUS) 1953-1961 17 29 4556 1650 55 6/70 9/144 30.00 2.17 82.8 5 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
C Blythe (ENG) 1901-1910 13 25 3202 1274 52 7/46 11/118 24.50 2.38 61.5 3 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
W Bates (ENG) 1881-1887 15 23 2364 821 50 7/28 14/102 16.42 2.08 47.2 4 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
W Rhodes (ENG) 1903-1921 30 49 3475 1553 50 8/68 15/124 31.06 2.68 69.5 3 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
PCR Tufnell (ENG) 1990-2000 17 30 5025 1829 48 7/47 11/147 38.10 2.18 104.6 2 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Intikhab Alam (PAK) 1962-1974 22 35 4251 2014 47 7/52 11/130 42.85 2.84 90.4 3 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
RA Jadeja (INDIA) 2013-2021 17 29 3893 1712 47 6/138 7/258 36.42 2.63 82.8 1 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
RJ Shastri (INDIA) 1981-1992 21 36 4340 1628 47 5/125 8/179 34.63 2.25 92.3 1 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Yasir Shah (PAK) 2016-2020 16 26 3924 2534 46 6/72 10/141 55.08 3.87 85.3 2 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
JG Bracewell (NZ) 1980-1990 18 31 3806 1665 45 4/38 6/168 37.00 2.62 84.5 0 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
DA Allen (ENG) 1963-1966 12 21 4273 1333 44 5/41 7/140 30.29 1.87 97.1 2 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Abdul Qadir (PAK) 1982-1989 16 25 4525 2109 43 7/96 10/211 49.04 2.79 105.2 3 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
GP Swann (ENG) 2009-2013 12 23 3429 1816 43 5/54 9/164 42.23 3.17 79.7 3 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif

 

 

Home or Away , Asia - He is ATG for sure, along side Murali

 

Home or away home venue http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or away (home of opposition) http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif
Host country Bangladesh http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or India http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or Pakistan http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or Sri Lanka http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or United Arab Emirates http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif
Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif
Ordered by wickets taken (descending)
Page 1 of 14 Showing 1 - 50 of 652   http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoFirst-icon_13x13.gifFirst http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoPrev-disable-icon_13x13.gifPrevious Next http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoNext-icon_13x13.gif Last http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoLast-icon_13x13.gif http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/dblBakArwB.gifReturn to query menu
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Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns Balls Runs Wktshttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/blackArrowDown.gif BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10  
M Muralitharan (SL) 1992-2010 97 171 32563 13276 612 9/51 13/115 21.69 2.44 53.2 52 17 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
A Kumble (INDIA) 1993-2008 82 144 25711 11315 419 10/74 14/149 27.00 2.64 61.3 27 7 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
R Ashwin (INDIA) 2011-2022 57 111 16298 7433 349 7/59 13/140 21.29 2.73 46.6 28 7 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
HMRKB Herath (SL) 1999-2018 60 111 16969 8069 314 9/127 14/184 25.69 2.85 54.0 27 7 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Harbhajan Singh (INDIA) 1998-2015 71 130 20584 9605 300 8/84 15/217 32.01 2.79 68.6 19 5 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
RA Jadeja (INDIA) 2012-2022 37 73 10013 3865 184 7/48 10/154 21.00 2.31 54.4 9 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Abdul Qadir (PAK) 1977-1990 48 80 11625 5095 179 9/56 13/101 28.46 2.62 64.9 12 4 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Danish Kaneria (PAK) 2000-2009 36 65 10794 5392 168 7/77 12/94 32.09 2.99 64.2 10 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Shakib Al Hasan (BAN) 2007-2021 43 72 9949 5051 153 7/36 10/124 33.01 3.04 65.0 13 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
BS Chandrasekhar (INDIA) 1964-1979 35 59 9761 4318 150 8/79 11/235 28.78 2.65 65.0 8 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
BS Bedi (INDIA) 1966-1979 33 60 11219 3736 143 7/98 9/70 26.12 1.99 78.4 8 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Iqbal Qasim (PAK) 1977-1988 39 67 10595 3774 140 7/49 11/118 26.95 2.13 75.6 8 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
MDK Perera (SL) 2014-2021 32 59 8349 4479 131 6/32 10/78 34.19 3.21 63.7 7 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Taijul Islam (BAN) 2014-2021 30 52 8053 4038 131 8/39 11/170 30.82 3.00 61.4 8 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Saqlain Mushtaq (PAK) 1995-2004 26 48 7711 3362 122 8/164 10/187 27.55 2.61 63.2 10 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
MH Mankad (INDIA) 1948-1959 28 47 9347 3132 115 8/52 13/131 27.23 2.01 81.2 5 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
PP Ojha (INDIA) 2009-2013 24 48 7633 3420 113 6/47 10/89 30.26 2.68 67.5 7 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
SP Gupte (INDIA) 1951-1961 26 45 8109 3025 105 9/102 10/223 28.80 2.23 77.2 9 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
SK Warne (AUS) 1992-2006 22 40 5943 3064 100 6/125 10/155 30.64 3.09 59.4 9 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
EAS Prasanna (INDIA) 1962-1978 24 44 7179 2811 97 6/74 10/174 28.97 2.34 74.0 5 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
DL Vettori (NZ) 1998-2010 20 32 6593 2780 96 6/28 12/170 28.95 2.52 68.6 8 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
S Venkataraghavan (INDIA) 1965-1983 32 55 8275 2881 94 8/72 12/152 30.64 2.08 88.0 2 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Mehidy Hasan Miraz (BAN) 2016-2021 22 37 5347 2751 90 7/58 12/117 30.56 3.08 59.4 6 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Mohammad Rafique (BAN) 2000-2008 26 39 7196 3277 89 6/77 9/160 36.82 2.73 80.8 7 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Mushtaq Ahmed (PAK) 1990-2003 28 49 6218 3166 88 6/84 10/106 35.97 3.05 70.6 4 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
RJ Shastri (INDIA) 1981-1990 49 75 9433 3662 86 5/75 5/75 42.58 2.32 109.6 1 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
DR Doshi (INDIA) 1979-1983 25 42 6465 2443 85 6/103 8/103 28.74 2.26 76.0 5 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Tauseef Ahmed (PAK) 1980-1993 28 48 6211 2360 82 6/45 9/77 28.78 2.27 75.7 3 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
NM Lyon (AUS) 2011-2022 16 31 4525 2397 81 8/50 13/154 29.59 3.17 55.8 7 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
NS Yadav (INDIA) 1979-1987 29 50 6327 2822 78 5/76 7/81 36.17 2.67 81.1 2 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
ST Jayasuriya (SL) 1991-2007 75 98 6055 2457 77 5/34 9/74 31.90 2.43 78.6 2 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Intikhab Alam (PAK) 1959-1976 24 41 6037 2384 76 5/91 10/182 31.36 2.36 79.4 2 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Maninder Singh (INDIA) 1982-1993 29 44 7026 2909 74 7/27 10/107 39.31 2.48 94.9 3 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
SLV Raju (INDIA) 1990-2001 17 32 4752 1825 73 6/12 11/125 25.00 2.30 65.0 5 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
DL Underwood (ENG) 1969-1982 22 38 5762 1946 73 5/28 9/173 26.65 2.02 78.9 3 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
R Benaud (AUS) 1956-1960 12 23 4399 1372 71 7/72 11/105 19.32 1.87 61.9 6 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
BAW Mendis (SL) 2008-2014 18 30 4604 2368 69 6/99 10/209 34.31 3.08 66.7 4 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
A Mishra (INDIA) 2008-2016 17 32 4037 2050 63 5/71 7/72 32.53 3.04 64.0 1 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
GP Swann (ENG) 2008-2012 10 19 3313 1570 60 6/82 10/181 26.16 2.84 55.2 5 2 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
HDPK Dharmasena (SL) 1993-2004 22 38 5166 2161 56 6/72 8/183 38.58 2.50 92.2 3 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
SA Durani (INDIA) 1960-1973 21 35 4704 1896 55 6/73 10/177 34.47 2.41 85.5 3 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
LR Gibbs (WI) 1958-1975 14 28 4246 1302 54 7/98 9/143 24.11 1.83 78.6 3 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Ghulam Ahmed (INDIA) 1948-1959 18 30 4540 1681 53 7/49 10/130 31.71 2.22 85.6 3 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
RG Nadkarni (INDIA) 1955-1966 25 40 5573 1477 53 6/91 11/122 27.86 1.59 105.1 3 1 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
AF Giles (ENG) 2000-2005 15 26 4339 1815 52 5/67 8/132 34.90 2.50 83.4 3 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Yasir Shah (PAK) 2015-2021 9 18 2604 1315 48 7/76 9/155 27.39 3.02 54.2 3 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
MM Ali (ENG) 2016-2021 11 20 2688 1568 47 5/57 8/137 33.36 3.50 57.1 1 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Saeed Ajmal (PAK) 2009-2014 10 20 3218 1464 47 5/146 7/193 31.14 2.72 68.4 2 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
MJ Leach (ENG) 2018-2021 9 17 2487 1257 46 5/83 8/153 27.32 3.03 54.0 2 0 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
ND Hirwani (INDIA) 1988-1996 8 13 1757 748 45 8/61 16/136 16.62 2.55 39.0 4 1

http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif

 

 

 

 

 

How is Bhajji averaging 40 in SENA better than Jaddu averaging 36 (that's what I could infer from those stats)

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vvvslaxman Grand Master

vvvslaxman

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Jay said:

BTW did you know ATGs like wackqar had an average of 35 in sewai

Even the mighty so called wasim had an average of 29 vs sewai. So much for being inferior to philander Lel. Yes I included india in sewa instead of sena because Kiwis were a joke in those days. 

 

Vast number of Akram's wickets are tailenders.  He has the highest percentage.

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Vilander Mentor

Vilander

Posted
Posted
On 3/10/2022 at 9:56 AM, Lord said:

 

How is Bhajji averaging 40 in SENA better than Jaddu averaging 36 (that's what I could infer from those stats)

Strikerate and number of wickets per match, interesting and overlooked stats, average alone can be a bit misleading. 

Link to comment
Vilander Mentor

Vilander

Posted
Posted
On 3/10/2022 at 8:05 AM, vvvslaxman said:

 

Thsi white filtering obsession has been around ever since we started using this SENA term. This was created specifically for the last 10 years. Not before. There was no such thing as SENA in the 2000s, 1990s or before. Nobody hyped performances in Australia. India utterly dominated Australia in Australia during the 80s Even in England , India just missed a white wash.

 

SENA is not all white filtering, there is some analytical value in it. The S is South Africa. Its ellite challenge of non Asian cricket likewise Ind Pak SL are ellite challenge of Asian cricket. It can't be just brushed aside as white acceptance obsession, although for some lost souls it might be, they can't be helped.

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Majestic Grand Master

Majestic

Posted
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 

SENA is not all white filtering, there is some analytical value in it. The S is South Africa. Its ellite challenge of non Asian cricket likewise Ind Pak SL are ellite challenge of Asian cricket. It can't be just brushed aside as white acceptance obsession, although for some lost souls it might be, they can't be helped.

Also SENA are among the top 5 cricket playing nations. So, it is indeed a good parameter to determine a player's greatness.

Edited by Majestic
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vvvslaxman Grand Master

vvvslaxman

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Also SENA are among the top 5 cricket playing nations. So, it is indeed a good parameter to determine a player's greatness.

Not for 5 decades for sure.  West Indies, Sri lanka, Pakistan were better than some of the SENAs at various points. Even zimbabwe was terrific. Andy flower batted Indian spinners to ground in one of the series. Jimmy Adams did that once. 

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vvvslaxman Grand Master

vvvslaxman

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Vilander said:

 

SENA is not all white filtering, there is some analytical value in it. The S is South Africa. Its ellite challenge of non Asian cricket likewise Ind Pak SL are ellite challenge of Asian cricket. It can't be just brushed aside as white acceptance obsession, although for some lost souls it might be, they can't be helped.

South Africa did not even play in the 80s, 70s. How can we apply SENA filter to them.  When you have 4 fast bowlers and opposition have 4 fast bowler why do you expect s pinners to roll the opposition over? It is definitely not a challenge. If that is what the challenge is no spinners has conquered every part of the world.  Especially last 10 years apart from rare matches very few places spinners made more impact than seamers. Infact not a single match where neither Jaddu nor Ashwin play bigger role in winning matches in SENA. It would have been the case for any bowlers from the past if they had partnered these 4 seamers.  One sucked lesss. One sucked more. Both sucked with ball. Presuming that Bedi, Prasanna would outbowl Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Ishan or even Thakur is crazy extrapolation.

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Majestic Grand Master

Majestic

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Not for 5 decades for sure.  West Indies, Sri lanka, Pakistan were better than some of the SENAs at various points. Even zimbabwe was terrific. Andy flower batted Indian spinners to ground in one of the series. Jimmy Adams did that once. 

Most of the discussions are based on last 20-30 years. When we discuss about Indian spinners, it is Kumble, Harbhajan, Ashwin and Jadeja. Bedi and Chandra were like five-six decades back and the game was completely different then. There is no point filtering on them based on SENA stats. Also home and away were not much a thing too as most players in that era had balanced stats.

 

It is in modern era where everyone is a bully at home and try to be competitive enough away. 

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Lord Grand Master

Lord

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2 hours ago, Vilander said:

Strikerate and number of wickets per match, interesting and overlooked stats, average alone can be a bit misleading. 

average includes strike rate. WPM is useless if you give more runs per wicket. It only means no one to share wickets

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vvvslaxman Grand Master

vvvslaxman

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9 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Most of the discussions are based on last 20-30 years. When we discuss about Indian spinners, it is Kumble, Harbhajan, Ashwin and Jadeja. Bedi and Chandra were like five-six decades back and the game was completely different then. There is no point filtering on them based on SENA stats. Also home and away were not much a thing too as most players in that era had balanced stats.

 

It is in modern era where everyone is a bully at home and try to be competitive enough away. 

 

Kumble started his career ins 1990  Finished in 2007. That is a pretty long career.  Harbahajan for all your lofty claims ended up with an average of 72 in Australia best team of 2000s. In England aveage of 49.  lol If you use SENA your sucking in A and E can be offset by tolerable performances in N and S.  It is highly misleading. How much of an impact thee guys played in winning matches with them being the main bowlers compared to current situation where spinners are never going to outbowl seaemers.  Not much barring one or two innings. When you combine with their poor show against subcontinent teams you will see nobody can be considered great. 

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Majestic Grand Master

Majestic

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2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Kumble started his career ins 1990  Finished in 2007. That is a pretty long career.  Harbahajan for all your lofty claims ended up with an average of 72 in Australia best team of 2000s. In England aveage of 49.  lol If you use SENA your sucking in A and E can be offset by tolerable performances in N and S.  It is highly misleading. How much of an impact thee guys played in winning matches with them being the main bowlers compared to current situation where spinners are never going to outbowl seaemers.  Not much barring one or two innings. When you combine with their poor show against subcontinent teams you will see nobody can be considered great. 

Country Great ?? They are 

 

All time Greats?? For that you need match winning performance overseas which only Warne and Murali has.

 

 

Edited by Majestic
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