Waqar Younis blames the mindset of India when it comes to pace

[Lone Wolf]

16 minutes ago, straighttalk said:

What was the t20 pace attack under Kohli..I see bhuvi Bumrah and someone else..so it didn't change..also dnt see test attack being changed .atleast rahane saha and ishant has been phased out.i think thinking is same

They never had so many options like now.  At test level they had.  Shami Umesh failed at T20 level so they had to go for Trundlers. 

Saini was introduced in T20Is under Kohli but his injuries led to him being sidelined.

Khaleel is the only guy who never got enough backing...  Despite producing decent results & he was last genuine young pacer we brought at 20 years.  

Edited November 12, 2022 by Lone Wolf

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Padosis and padosi experts somehow try to link this to lack of genuine bowling options? 

 

Others may but Wasim and Waqar kept on saying that India has a lot of quick bowling options now which we need to utilize properly.

 

I heard it multiple times on TV.

[Vilander]

I think this WC was lost due to poor form fr Bhuvi Rohit Harshal KLR  Ashwin DK Shami. Poor bowling poor batting and poor fielding. 

[Vilander]

11 hours ago, badmash said:

“Wasim bhai, I don't know if you remember. Recently Asia Cup me jab ham log the, unke commentators bhi the. They had long shows, were talking about team combinations and all. Uss discussions me ham log bhi the, we were talking about our side. And they were just more keen on bowlers who control the game. Just bowl good seam, which is good, you need 1-2 bowlers like that. But we were insisting that you need to look into pace,” Waqar said on A Sports.

 

Pace does wonders on Australian grounds and in general when you can’t rely on swing/seam only 

 

the pace sensations that you did have, you didn’t give them enough chances to settle in:

 

Umesh Yadav debuted in 2010 and only payed 75 Odis so far

Varun Aaron debuted in 2011 and only played 9 Odis

 

Umran Malik … who knows when he will get a chance 

 

the culture has always been to promote line and length trundlers who only work under swinging conditions where you can swing or seam the ball from good length 

 

 

 

This is true. There should have been coordinated attempts across several series to bring any of Sen Tyagi prasidh, Mavi Siraj  before that and recently Umran or Moshin into international t20. Each of these bowlers could have been an accurate 150 pace bowler. Its selection and vision failure that India does not have a good pace bowling lineup that can succeed in Aus t20.  Thats 6 bowlers that bowl up 145 +  in case Umran Tyagi Sen and Moshin 150+ in t20 I find it hard to belive that it was not possible to get one accurate pacer out of that. Well hope to see bumrah back soon. 

 

 

[Vijy]

34 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 

This is true. There should have been coordinated attempts across several series to bring any of Sen Tyagi prasidh, Mavi Siraj  before that and recently Umran or Moshin into international t20. Each of these bowlers could have been an accurate 150 pace bowler. Its selection and vision failure that India does not have a good pace bowling lineup that can succeed in Aus t20.  Thats 6 bowlers that bowl up 145 +  in case Umran Tyagi Sen and Moshin 150+ in t20 I find it hard to belive that it was not possible to get one accurate pacer out of that. Well hope to see bumrah back soon. 

 

 

bumrah's pace is going to decline after all these injuries. he should settle into senior mentor-type role like Zak, and groom young guns

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

bumrah's pace is going to decline after all these injuries. he should settle into senior mentor-type role like Zak, and groom young guns

 

Yup they can still do that. There is  no derth of talent. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Vilander

[Vilander]

On 11/12/2022 at 6:52 AM, badmash said:

You also have chetan sharma as selector who himself was a 5ft-3 trundler. What do you think he will look for in a bowler? Srinath or Zaheer khan should be given the responsibility of nurturing pace bowlers. 

 

Chetan Mohanty both of them rank trundlers who want to normalise their trundling. All of Indias over seas test series wins had predictably great batting and very good high pace bowling from Bumrah Ishant Shami Umesh. There is evidence and Chetan still did the contrary. They wanted to get Bhuvi and Bhhuvi 2.0 and bhuvi 3.0 to control the entire innings. 

 

And on topic not just waqar and wasim, Bret Lee and Steyn had wondered about various fast bowlers they saw in IPL. Bret Lee was extremely blunt on need to develop Umran. I guess people would trust these guys more than chetan when it comes to fast bowling. So there is a point here.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Vilander

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, Vilander said:

 

Chetan Mohanty both of them rank trundlers who want to nkrmalise their trundling. All of Indias over seas test series wins had predictably great batting and very good high pace bowling from Bumrah Ishant Shami Umesh. There is evidence and Chetan still did the contrary. They wanted to get Bhuvi and Bhhuvi 2.0 and bhuvi 3.0 to control the entire innings. 

 

And on topic not just waqar and wasim, Bret Lee and Steyn had wondered about various fast bowlers they saw in IPL. Bret Lee was extremely blunt on need to develop Umran. I guess people would trust these guys more than chetan when it comes to fast bowling. So there is a point here.

chetan is looking to improve his standing at the expense of our pace stocks. he is a snake in the grass. not a harmless green snake but a krait (short, but deadly)

[Suhaan]

7 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Others may but Wasim and Waqar kept on saying that India has a lot of quick bowling options now which we need to utilize properly.

 

I heard it multiple times on TV.

They have been saying this since their retirement

[Suhaan]

4 hours ago, Vilander said:

 

Chetan Mohanty both of them rank trundlers who want to nkrmalise their trundling. All of Indias over seas test series wins had predictably great batting and very good high pace bowling from Bumrah Ishant Shami Umesh. There is evidence and Chetan still did the contrary. They wanted to get Bhuvi and Bhhuvi 2.0 and bhuvi 3.0 to control the entire innings. 

 

And on topic not just waqar and wasim, Bret Lee and Steyn had wondered about various fast bowlers they saw in IPL. Bret Lee was extremely blunt on need to develop Umran. I guess people would trust these guys more than chetan when it comes to fast bowling. So there is a point here.

Great post

[Vijy]

Just now, Suhaan said:

They have been saying this since their retirement

they may have said it even before retirement. srinath at his peak was faster than two W's in terms of his highest speed balls (and perhaps even avg speed), although obviously not on same level as akhtar

[AKane]

India is very establishment oriented and the establishment in India is very rigid. 

 

The establishment is very supportive of passive behavior/activities etc and frowns at anything aggressive or outside the mould of passivity. In going with this the cricket establishment is very cynical of fast bowling. They do realise that people enjoy fast bowling and to ward off questions and to appease public opinion an MRF pace academy is promoted. Whether it produces actual pace bowlers is under wraps. 

 

Its not going to change in my lifetime.

[cricketfan28]

make younis the bowling coach.

[EnterTheVoid]

What do you make of the tuk tuk in the power play Waqar?

[putrevus]

Sam Curran won player of the series. Pace is not the problem.

[Vilander]

7 hours ago, cricketfan28 said:

make younis the bowling coach.

i don’t know if an overseas fast bowling coach would work . Imagine a Steyn or Bret Lee as coach they won’t get the personel they ask for from the selection panel and if they do it would look like they are intervening into selection and would be adverse for their position remember Greg Chappell. But it’s possible. 

[prudent_kreeda]

7 hours ago, cricketfan28 said:

make younis the bowling coach.

Naa re baba ! I will have a pace bowling consultant working at NCA  for 3 stints of 1-1.5 months each year for all young pacers .Some one like Lee  or Styne or Donald  would be fine , but then you need a bowling coach of Indian team who is in sync with that sports consultant of NCA , else at NCA they will be taught to bowl fast , seam, bounce , yorker while Paras will ask them to bowl line & length and swing at 125-130K. We will have lot more Khaleels by that!

[Vilander]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

Sam Curran won player of the series. Pace is not the problem.

pace not problem for Eng since their fast bowlers handle that part, Curran has a different role. India lacked a 150 k bower in the tournament it was super evident in the games if you followed it close. 

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, Vilander said:

pace not problem for Eng since their fast bowlers handle that part, Curran has a different role. India lacked a 150 k bower in the tournament it was super evident in the games if you followed it close. 

I disagree,that was not the reason why India exited.What 150 k bowler played for England today.

 

Would India have benefitted from 150k bowler , every team would benefit from great fast bowler.But an isolated 150k bowler will not change India's fortunes.Those bowlers don't grow on trees

[Lone Wolf]

10 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I disagree,that was not the reason why India exited.What 150 k bowler played for England today.

 

Would India have benefitted from 150k bowler , every team would benefit from great fast bowler.But an isolated 150k bowler will not change India's fortunes.Those bowlers don't grow on trees

England clearly got rattled by pace...  Indian batting along with Pak Pace & spin bowling would have ensured England would get mauled in MCG.