Projects lost to Gujarat

[mishra]

2 hours ago, Khota said:

I am very proud of Gujjus too as they show more business acumen than others and us Punjabis have a lot to learn from them. They are way ahead of us. But having said that there should be an equitable distribution of development in India. All states should benefit, not just few.

 

Is there anything wrong I said?

Yes, Sweeping Assumption you made that its upto centre to get FDI for Kejri/Mann when I gave the reason why FDI gets attracted to Gujrat.

Edited December 29, 2022 by mishra

[Moochad]

9 hours ago, Pollack said:

No one said "all fdi is going to gujarat". That's not possible even if Modi desires.

Gujarat has always ranked 4-6 in FDI investments.

 

 

That was obviously an overstatement. But read the original post again

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Multiple projects are lost to Gujarat. Gujarat comes out of no where and snatched these projects. What is the initiative for all states of India to elect BJP when they clearly are concerned only developing gujarat only. A change is needed. BJP should be taught a lesson for this. 

Where is the basis for this? Two projects going to Gujarat and yet the state still not being the topmost in FDI = BJP is only concerned with developing Gujarat? When Fadnavis or Yogiji becomes PM in the future, is this same bizarre logic going pushed? I don't know if you've been to UP, but the difference is night and day from when muppet singh and yadav were in charge of centre and state. BJP is focusing on all the states that vote for them. BJP cant do anything about states like Bengal or Punjab. They voted for their favourite, now they deal with it.  

 

I am from Poona, most projects started in Maharashtra prefer Mumbai over Poona for location and this has always been the case. Thackrey being CM for several years didn't cause that.  Like you said, Guj is always in the top handful of states, just like the rest are always the same, Maharashtra, Delhi+NCR.....

 

The only thing in this thread that actually looks like Gujarat bias by the Centre is the CAG report which should be investigated to see if true and the Dholera Foxconn project you mentioned, assuming what you said about Dholera is true. Otherwise this thread just seems to be paindoos gone wild.

 

Quote

Any project of significant importance is shifted to Gujarat by PM of Gujarat even if there are better alternatives on the basis of merit.

 

Private businesses ultimately decide what location has merit. Its their capital and they can invest where they want. That is what capitalism is. Important is subjective, those two new defense corridors announced are of upmost national importance to me.  They are in UP and Tamil Nad. 24000cr half of it in a state that is ruled by opposition. Focusing on 1-2 projects and creating a narrative is misleading. 

 

As a non-Gujarati BJP supporter in this thread, I can ask a different question from the defense corridor project allocation. Why aren't states that support BJP prefered in such investments. Madya Pradesh, a poorer state that has supported BJP for a while should have gotten consideration over Tamil Nad. Maharashtra, Haryana, Karnataka other states that voted BJP also couldve gotten it. If Modi is involved in allocation of all the projects, then that is the question BJP supporters should ask, not why does Guj always get around the same amount of FDI. 

 

Quote

Like if Vedanta-foxconn project succeeds you will see downpour of investments since manufacturing of chips is restricted to few countries only. The challenges are innumerable.

 

Neither Vedanta nor foxconn have any expertise in this field.   And now they have chosen a location which makes even more challenging for such an ambitious project. Dholera is a failed city. Companies are leaving it. ISMC Digital (ISMC Digital) company was supposed to come at Dholera. This ISMC Digital has now fled from Dholera due to lack of facilities and water availability. Interestingly, Gujarat government had entered into a memorandum of understanding with this company.Jiophone, a joint project of Google and Reliance, left Dholera and moved to Tirupati. Earlier, Lockheed Martin Corporation withdrew from the solar battery project. Hindustan Construction Company had entered into an MoU to build a waterfront city worth Rs40,000 crore at Dholera.But after paying some money for the place, it withdrew.  You need to understand Dholera was a dream project of Modiji. He wanted it to be better than "Sanghai". He is just not giving up on it.

Dholera sounds like a bad choice based off what you said. I will take your word for it because I am not familiar with the area. 

The silver lining I guess is that the projects have successfully moved. If Foxconn is another Dholera failure, then our entry into semiconductors will be delayed but still has a chance to succeed somewhere else.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Moochad

[zen]

Guj needs fast trains 

 

AMD-BDQ-STV, with an extension to BOM (on going project)

 

Amdavad-Surendranagar-Rajkot

 

Rajkot-Morbi-Kandla

 

Rajkot-Jamnagar-Dwarka 

Edited December 29, 2022 by zen

[zen]

Gujarat has the potential to achieve Israel-Taiwan level of GDP per capita  

 

It has to stop itself from being lumped with ROI 

 

 

[Khota]

8 hours ago, mishra said:

Yes, Sweeping Assumption you made that its upto centre to get FDI for Kejri/Mann when I gave the reason why FDI gets attracted to Gujrat.

There were no sweeping assumptions. Only eyebrows raised for last minute change of projects. What ecosystem does Gujrat have over Karnataka or Maharashtra to justify FOXCONN?

[Pollack]

12 hours ago, mishra said:

Advantage BJP has over any other state including Maharashtra is following.

1. Consistent BJP Government.

2. No opposition to people from other states on grounds of "Outsider". All states with sea shore have a advantage vis a vis land locked state but only Gujrat has shown that they are okie with anyone working in their state.

3. Politicians failed to divide Community on basis of cast (Reservation for Patels and other freebies failed)

4. It has couple of richest Indians belonging to that community. So they can make/do deals with Western heads (You do know that long before Indian PM visited white House, Ambains used to visit white House and their influence must have played role during Clinton era).

5. It has very solid NRI base, even those NRI's are core pro India and nationalistic  which is very clear on issues like Kashmir, Khalistan, Pakistan, China and so on. Even on this forum, You never see any Gujju displaying any regionalist sentiments.

6. Agreed that Gujju Community is money minded but what they do when they get rich. They end up buying creating Mumbai Indians and Not Mumbai Gujratis in India and building traditional temples and pro India social groups in West.

 

So conclusion, Projects which have long term, National and Security (It include economic security) implications will automatically choose Gujrat as safest place by Central Government headed by BJP.

Dairy, Diamond, Dispensary (pharmaceutical) of India belongs to Gujjus. Chemical,Chips will belong to Gujjus. Despite not being a Gujju, I am proud of Gujjus achevements and consider them as role model for other Indian State Communities.

Apart from point 1, none of the mentioned points has any relevance to the topic.

But still I would try to factually correct many of your "opinions"

 

2) According to 2011 census, Maharashtra and Delhi are top states receiving inter-state migration. Gujarat which ranked 3rd does not receive even half the rate of migration population that Maharashtra and Delhi receives.

 

The political party MNS which made this Outsider issue mostly targeted the poor migrants from UP, Bihar and not the industrialist or businessman. There is no problem of Outsider in "business" and there is no problem for poor migrants either because it's 2022 and migration to Maharashtra has not stopped and only increased. MNS has become irrelevant party.

 

 Gujarat is not even in top 10 in interstate migrant policy index (IMPEX) which measures integration of interstate migrants.

 

Only Maharshtra and Kerala performs well despite both states receiving large proportions of migrants. Delhi and Gujarat perform poorly.

 

 

 

 

 

Read below for more:

How states fare in Migrant Policy Index: Kerala on top, Delhi near bottom

https://wap.business-standard.com/article-amp/current-affairs/how-states-fare-in-migrant-policy-index-kerala-on-top-delhi-near-bottom-120111000539_1.html

 

 

3) Irrelevant discussion.

 

4) So only rich gujaratis can talk with "Western" company heads. What kind of argument is this? 

 

5) and 6)  Assumptions you made here are not exclusive to one community. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Pollack

[Vijy]

6 hours ago, zen said:

Gujarat has the potential to achieve Israel-Taiwan level of GDP per capita  

 

It has to stop itself from being lumped with ROI 

 

 

they could declare independence and try to secede. Hyd state tried that in the 1940s...didn't go that well for them.

[Khota]

7 hours ago, zen said:

Gujarat has the potential to achieve Israel-Taiwan level of GDP per capita  

 

It has to stop itself from being lumped with ROI 

 

 

Stop! Please Stop. I can give you a million reasons why that won't happen in our lifetime.

[zen]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

they could declare independence and try to secede. Hyd state tried that in the 1940s...didn't go that well for them.

Guj can do that or even make others leave India! … Guj cannot be compared with random states.  
 

Btw, Hyderabad was brought “in” into India later on by one of the founding fathers from Guj!   
 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by zen

[Vijy]

56 minutes ago, zen said:

Guj can do that or even make others leave India! … Guj cannot be compared with random states.  
 

Btw, Hyderabad was brought “in” into India later on by one of the founding fathers from Guj!   
 

 

 

I look forward to seeing the attempt. whatever the outcome, it would be hilarious

[zen]

23 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I look forward to seeing the attempt. whatever the outcome, it would be hilarious

Till that point, some of the others can continue to complain of Guj dominance! 

 

(equality is only for the books) 

Edited December 30, 2022 by zen

[Clarke]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

I look forward to seeing the attempt. whatever the outcome, it would be hilarious

 

3 hours ago, Vijy said:

they could declare independence and try to secede. Hyd state tried that in the 1940s...didn't go that well for them.

 

You really think some jerk living abroad represents the secessionist tendencies of a patriotic & prosperous state ? Its just an individual's delusions, ignore it. 

[ravishingravi]

Gujarat will be $1 Trn economy in 7 years. The biggest economy of the country closely competing with Maharashtra and GDP per capital of developed nation. Its inevitable. The dynamic spirit of the state and independent go getter mindset is going to take it beyond reach of any state. 

 

This is not BJP. This is common Gujarati. They know their Dhando. 

[ravishingravi]

If there are secession in this land, I would imagine Gujarat to be the last one to secede. Gujarat has become a beacon of nationalism and hindutva. I travelled around the state last year. This is honestly the model that BJP wants to showcase as nationalistic capitalistic model for the country. What can I say. I love Gujarat. Even the muslim population from Gen Z is absolutely clear on aspirations. 

[Khota]

1 hour ago, ravishingravi said:

Gujarat will be $1 Trn economy in 7 years. The biggest economy of the country closely competing with Maharashtra and GDP per capital of developed nation. Its inevitable. The dynamic spirit of the state and independent go getter mindset is going to take it beyond reach of any state. 

 

This is not BJP. This is common Gujarati. They know their Dhando. 

That would be more than 10% growth per year. I hope they do that and that would be inspiration for other states. With the bureaucratic setup in India, I highly doubt that.

[Khota]

1 hour ago, ravishingravi said:

If there are secession in this land, I would imagine Gujarat to be the last one to secede. Gujarat has become a beacon of nationalism and hindutva. I travelled around the state last year. This is honestly the model that BJP wants to showcase as nationalistic capitalistic model for the country. What can I say. I love Gujarat. Even the muslim population from Gen Z is absolutely clear on aspirations. 

It is your fellow Gujjus who want to secede as they think they are better than other desis. 

[Khota]

8 hours ago, zen said:

Guj can do that or even make others leave India! … Guj cannot be compared with random states.  
 

Btw, Hyderabad was brought “in” into India later on by one of the founding fathers from Guj!   
 

 

 

BTW that was done by the two greatest Indians ever. They just happen to be Gujjus.

 

Plus we consider "Sardar " Patel to be one of us.

[mishra]

13 hours ago, Pollack said:

2) According to 2011 census, Maharashtra and Delhi are top states receiving inter-state migration. Gujarat which ranked 3rd does not receive even half the rate of migration population that Maharashtra and Delhi receives.

 

3) Irrelevant discussion.

 

4) So only rich gujaratis can talk with "Western" company heads. What kind of argument is this? 

 

5) and 6)  Assumptions you made here are not exclusive to one community. 

2. I would have blindly accepted the data if I did not knew India. But kerala at top made me to dig into that data. If anything, If someone starts "scoring" instead of presenting facts as it is, then "that study" , I call as sale of BullCrap to gullible public. So here it is about that "score". Scoring is based on intra state movement which accounts to 88% of data and hence you see Kerala on top despite the fact that no one immigrates to Kerala from any other state.

That is that but also some people are slightly older then MNS who remember Amar Bangla movement  in Kolkata , Anti South movement by Thakares, Periyars anti Northie movement in Chennai and descrimination of UP Bhaiyas by mostly Punjabis in Delhi. That covers all four Metros of India post independence. Even you see some anti state regionalist overtures in (Bengluru) Karnataka which is probably next in line as compettior to Metros while in Gujrat, you will see non Gujratis living at local towns and village level

3. Actually it is very relevant. Impact of it is political stability and politics is done on development agenda then any TDH coming and representing this caste and that caste or laal Salam BS and exploiting socio-economic faultline of comminity and harming economic devlopment of people or national interest for private political gains. This has shelded Gujrat from a lot of unwanted interfence/BS and hence it was a no brainer for Mittals/Foxconn to choose Gujrat over Maharshtra.

 

4. Yes they do bring FDIs and influence Powerful Government on individual capacity?  Else why do you see  so many Oil refinerieries and Cotton mills in Gujrat and not in any other state? The rich guys add to what government achieves.Their operation in Service sector is limited.

 

5 & 6. Its not a exclusivity but its part of culture/upbringing  among that community. On other end of spectrum you will see Pakistanis making name in field of Terrorism. There is exclusivity down to social values, family values and upbriunging

Edited December 30, 2022 by mishra

[Clarke]

1 hour ago, ravishingravi said:

If there are secession in this land, I would imagine Gujarat to be the last one to secede. Gujarat has become a beacon of nationalism and hindutva. I travelled around the state last year. This is honestly the model that BJP wants to showcase as nationalistic capitalistic model for the country. What can I say. I love Gujarat. Even the muslim population from Gen Z is absolutely clear on aspirations. 

 

That's the power of the internet, a loser from some far off land can present a picture that has nothing to do with reality. 

[Pollack]

2 hours ago, mishra said:

2. I would have blindly accepted the data if I did not knew India. But kerala at top made me to dig into that data. If anything, If someone starts "scoring" instead of presenting facts as it is, then "that study" , I call as sale of BullCrap to gullible public. So here it is about that "score". Scoring is based on intra state movement which accounts to 88% of data and hence you see Kerala on top despite the fact that no one immigrates to Kerala from any other state.

That is that but also some people are slightly older then MNS who remember Amar Bangla movement  in Kolkata , Anti South movement by Thakares, Periyars anti Northie movement in Chennai and descrimination of UP Bhaiyas by mostly Punjabis in Delhi. That covers all four Metros of India post independence. Even you see some anti state regionalist overtures in (Bengluru) Karnataka which is probably next in line as compettior to Metros while in Gujrat, you will see non Gujratis living at local towns and village level

3. Actually it is very relevant. Impact of it is political stability and politics is done on development agenda then any TDH coming and representing this caste and that caste or laal Salam BS and exploiting socio-economic faultline of comminity and harming economic devlopment of people or national interest for private political gains. This has shelded Gujrat from a lot of unwanted interfence/BS and hence it was a no brainer for Mittals/Foxconn to choose Gujrat over Maharshtra.

 

4. Yes they do bring FDIs and influence Powerful Government on individual capacity?  Else why do you see  so many Oil refinerieries and Cotton mills in Gujrat and not in any other state? The rich guys add to what government achieves.Their operation in Service sector is limited.

 

5 & 6. Its not a exclusivity but its part of culture/upbringing  among that community. On other end of spectrum you will see Pakistanis making name in field of Terrorism. There is exclusivity down to social values, family values and upbriunging

2) It is inter-state migration index not intra-state. IMPEX measure how well migrants are integrated based on policies framed for residents and migrants. It does not measure the amount of migrants to the state. A state may score well on IMPEX and yet not attract much migration. You can ignore such states (usually smaller states). It just means it has migrant friendly policies even if it doesn't attract much migrants.  But here we were talking about the heavyweights like Delhi, Gujarat, Maharashtra, Kerala, Karnataka etc. It makes no sense to ignore IMPEX for these states.

 

3)Bullshit with due respect. I like how forcefully you dragged caste into this when it makes no sense and concluded so its no brainer . In arnab's voice Kuch bhi!. 

4), 5) and 6) You are again selling generalizations, perceptions and your opinions as factors of actual investors. Investors dont go by emotions or perceptions. They go by stats, facts and data available and also some political understanding of the state/city they are eyeing.

I was not arguing that rich people don't add anything but your argument was like only rich gujaratis are capable of business. You are just infatuated by "Gujaratis". Nothing wrong in it but it's clouding your logical sense. Agreed business is in blood of people from Gujarat. But there are various factors which are critical to successful investment. Investors have to determine whether the place where they are investing is suitable for their field, location factor, connectivity, logistics, political stability, availability of skilled and unskilled labours etc and much to your disappointment ethnicity is never a factor. 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Pollack