Can we Bazball Australia in the final ?

[Norman]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Kuldeep not being part of the XI is a big miss. Any other SENA team would play him in every Test. Tukloo leach is a regular for them.

 

This.

 

You need X factor players in such games to give you the edge. Pant, Kuldeep, Siraj, Gill....heck even Pandya is of that mould. 

 

We're forced to play Ashwin or Thakur due to their negligible batting credentials and thereby missing a match winner like Kuldeep. He can completely take the surface and conditions out of equation on his day..

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, Lord said:

If its spin friendly it shouldn't matter.

 

In any case their batting contribution is gonna be important given our top order.

No pitch is spin friendly in England.

[singhvivek141]

If you will tell Kohli to bazball he will end up chasing the balls to be left alone and edge to slips.

Rahane will get LBW to a in dipper from Broad, so is Pujara.

Rohit is horribly out of form and its not realistic to expect him to play fast.

Gill can play at decent clip, Ishan Kishan also as that's the only was he can contribute with bat.

 

Dravid is old school in his approach (atleast in Tests). He will let these batters play the way they want to (also I don't think Kohli will listen to him anyway).

Edited June 3, 2023 by singhvivek141

[Norman]

55 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

No pitch is spin friendly in England.

 

Depends on the definition of "spin friendly". We got used to the minefields at home and automatically assume that any wicket that doesn't turn square from ball one is not spin friendly.

 

Oval almost always turns a bit from day 3. Even last time around Jadeja was getting it to spit from the rough. Check the wickets he got off Hameed and Moeen.  

[Jay]

3 hours ago, AKane said:

What days are gone? Strength is pace? Please  ......

 

Where we have control of pitches it is always spinner friendly pitches being built. How many times have we seen countries whose strength is pace, at home open bowling with spinners? India does it many times with Ashwin/Axar/Jadeja opening the bowling in tests.

 

Even a spinner like Warne never opened bowling at home when playing in Aus alongside McGrath/Lee/Gillespie etc.

 

We can talk the talk about pace but we will walk the walk with spin when we control conditions.

 

In India conditions are not conducive to pace bowling. Pitches are dry due to weather. But our pace bowlers still excel in these conditions. Better than any other sena attack in Asia too. 

[Jay]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

If you will tell Kohli to bazball he will end up chasing the balls to be left alone and edge to slips.

Rahane will get LBW to a in dipper from Broad, so is Pujara.

Rohit is horribly out of form and its not realistic to expect him to play fast.

Gill can play at decent clip, Ishan Kishan also as that's the only was he can contribute with bat.

 

Dravid is old school in his approach (atleast in Tests). He will let these batters play the way they want to (also I don't think Kohli will listen to him anyway).

We need to get rid of Dravid. He sucks. He is a timid guy. Timid approach. He is physically and mentally outdated. 

 

Need a modern coach. So much talent in India but no real coach to harness the talent and elevate it to the next level. 

[AKane]

40 minutes ago, Jay said:

In India conditions are not conducive to pace bowling. Pitches are dry due to weather.

This is a myth. 

 

Johannesburg in SA get 27 inches of annual rain. Capetown gets 24 inches.

 

Comparitively Mumbai/Kolkata and Chennai are extremely wet cities. Bangalore or Nagpur get a lot more rain. Mohali, Delhi and Hyderabad get over 31 inches....Kanpur is 35 inches.

 

Also things like hoses and spray nozzles and watering cans do exist.

 

The will to create fast pitches like the Wanderers or Newlands does not exist.

 

Let it go  - the BCCI/Indian establishment bank on spin regardless of what you, I or this forum wants.

[Jay]

1 hour ago, AKane said:

This is a myth. 

 

Johannesburg in SA get 27 inches of annual rain. Capetown gets 24 inches.

 

Comparitively Mumbai/Kolkata and Chennai are extremely wet cities. Bangalore or Nagpur get a lot more rain. Mohali, Delhi and Hyderabad get over 31 inches....Kanpur is 35 inches.

 

Also things like hoses and spray nozzles and watering cans do exist.

 

The will to create fast pitches like the Wanderers or Newlands does not exist.

 

Let it go  - the BCCI/Indian establishment bank on spin regardless of what you, I or this forum wants.

Humidity, weather is a lot lot different. Jo'burg and western side of SA can be nice and cool. Way better conditions. 

 

Indian conditions are just not conducive to fast bowling..period. 

 

Why would we let go of our spin tradition anyway? We have been so dominant at home with spin. We just need to create pitches with a bit of bounce like that of dharmashala. Northern India above Delhi have good conditions. That's where we can develop fast bowling paradises. 

 

Another reason why we won't create fast bowling friendly pitches is cause our bitchy batsmen will whine about injuries in training sessions etc. They are too scared to face them on such pitches. 

 

Rahul refused to face tyagi and prasidh in the nets. 

Got hurt badly by tyagi btw. 

There are a few more such cases. 

Pujara hates facing our quicks in nets. 

 

 

In our country batsmen are worshipped. They are seen as the upper class citizens. Royalty job in their naive minds. 

Bowlers are like servants who do the brunt work. Phattus

Edited June 3, 2023 by Jay

[singhvivek141]

19 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

In our country batsmen our worshipped. They are seen as the upper class citizens. Royalty job in their naive minds. 

Bowlers are like servants who do the brunt work. Phattus

That's the real reason, I don't think there is any cricketing world who don't boasts of their fast bowlers..except us.

Our batters want either spin friendly pitches or flat pitches. But the moment you give them pitches which offer pace and movement, they'll start cribbing that our curators are betraying us or it seems we're playing in foreign conditions.

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, AKane said:

This is a myth. 

 

Johannesburg in SA get 27 inches of annual rain. Capetown gets 24 inches.

 

Comparitively Mumbai/Kolkata and Chennai are extremely wet cities. Bangalore or Nagpur get a lot more rain. Mohali, Delhi and Hyderabad get over 31 inches....Kanpur is 35 inches.

 

Also things like hoses and spray nozzles and watering cans do exist.

 

The will to create fast pitches like the Wanderers or Newlands does not exist.

 

Let it go  - the BCCI/Indian establishment bank on spin regardless of what you, I or this forum wants.

Joburg,  Centurion & Newlands being highveld venues help a lot as well.  The geography & soil suits pace bowling. 

 

Venues like Port Elizabeth & Paarl resemble Mumbai  & stuff. 

 

Dharamsala is paciest venue in India...  If u make few more stadiums in up north in HP & JK u will get fast & bouncy tracks too. 

 

 

[AKane]

7 hours ago, Jay said:

Why would we let go of our spin tradition anyway? We have been so dominant at home with spin. We just need to create pitches with a bit of bounce like that of dharmashala. Northern India above Delhi have good conditions. That's where we can develop fast bowling paradises. 

Ok - you will excuse me if I look at Kingston Jamaica and the Sabina Park pitch which is at sea level and is one of the fastest in the world.

 

This whole idea that one has to be in the Himalayas/Alps/Andes to create fast pitches is whatever...

 

It takes will and as another example, Sri Lanka the emerald isle has as much opportunity to create a fast pitch as Kingston or Bridgetown Barbados or Antigua. But like India they cater to the Muralis and Heraths and Hasarangas.

Edited June 3, 2023 by AKane

[rkt.india]

12 hours ago, Norman said:

 

Depends on the definition of "spin friendly". We got used to the minefields at home and automatically assume that any wicket that doesn't turn square from ball one is not spin friendly.

 

Oval almost always turns a bit from day 3. Even last time around Jadeja was getting it to spit from the rough. Check the wickets he got off Hameed and Moeen.  

Ball turning from rough is not called spin friendly. Spin friendly pitch is that offers turns from the pitching areas. For extracting help from the rough, you need certain bowling style which our spinners lack. They are attacking the stumps bowlers. Their bowling actions aren't molded for rough areas bowling unlike bowlers from aus, England where bowlers by default develop bowling actions that help them pitch the ball in the rough because they don't get help from the pitch so that is the only way to get wickets for them. Likes of Lyon, moeen molded like that. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, AKane said:

Ok - you will excuse me if I look at Kingston Jamaica and the Sabina Park pitch which is at sea level and is one of the fastest in the world.

 

This whole idea that one has to be in the Himalayas/Alps/Andes to create fast pitches is whatever...

 

It takes will and as another example, Sri Lanka the emerald isle has as much opportunity to create a fast pitch as Kingston or Bridgetown Barbados or Antigua. But like India they cater to the Muralis and Heraths and Hasarangas.

You need right soil to do that. Dharmshala is the only pitch in India to have the right amount of clay content to have bouncy pitch.

[Lord]

14 hours ago, rkt.india said:

No pitch is spin friendly in England.

I know, but if its hot and flat its gonna aid spin more than usual in England. Oval is anyway flatter.

[Lord]

15 hours ago, AKane said:

They don't claim spin is their strength either.

Because their spinners are crap who sometimes fail even in India.

 

Our pacers OTOH have performed everywhere.

[AKane]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

Our pacers OTOH have performed everywhere.

When did they perform in SA or NZ? An odd win here and there even SA pacers have in India..... whether it be Steyn or Donald/Pollock.

 

 

[AKane]

3 minutes ago, AKane said:

When did they perform in SA or NZ? An odd win here and there even SA pacers have in India..... whether it be Steyn or Donald/Pollock.

 

Our much maligned batsmen did set targets of 200+ in fourth innings in T2 and T3 recently in SA but the "pacers" could get only 3 wickets in 2 fourth innings and wasted the efforts of the batsmen.

Edited June 3, 2023 by AKane

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, AKane said:

When did they perform in SA or NZ? An odd win here and there even SA pacers have in India..... whether it be Steyn or Donald/Pollock.

 

 

Steyn/Pollock are yesteryears. What has Rabada/Cummins won in India?

I'm talking about current attack

 

[AKane]

32 minutes ago, Lord said:

Steyn/Pollock are yesteryears. What has Rabada/Cummins won in India?

I'm talking about current attack

 

Ok what has Bumrah/Shami won in NZ? Or on a neutral ground vs NZ?

[Lord]

1 minute ago, AKane said:

Ok what has Bumrah/Shami won in NZ? Or on a neutral ground vs NZ?

batsmen messed up in NZ and WTC. Bowlers failed only in SA and last Test v Eng