Indian pace bowling all rounders

[Majestic]

Bumrah's average pace is 140-143 kph. He belongs to fast category. His problem is that he may lose a bit more pace if he starts playing 11-12 test per year instead of 7-8 tests which is what he plays per year. He is lucky to afford a rest here and there which is why he can keep the pace up and above 140.

 

Bowling 4 overs in IPL is not same as bowling in tests.

[vvvslaxman]

12 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Bumrah's average pace is 140-143 kph. He belongs to fast category. His problem is that he may lose a bit more pace if he starts playing 11-12 test per year instead of 7-8 tests which is what he plays per year. He is lucky to afford a rest here and there which is why he can keep the pace up and above 140.

 

Bowling 4 overs in IPL is not same as bowling in tests.

 

India should have used him as a strike bowler rather than workhorse. India needs  a workhorse bowler who can go at 2 runs per over and let others bowl at other end. That element is missing. Umesh/Thakur/Siraj/Shami are all major run leakers in Tests. Cannot keep the opposition quiet.

[wazza]

On 6/21/2023 at 4:17 PM, Adamant said:

Also didn't expect sensible posters here to rate the likes of Pandya over a Legend Kapil Dev.
Looks like the speed fantasy has blinded the eyes of posters here, Kapil dev with his 130 kph balls is 10 times more potent as a test and Odi bowler than the likes of Pandya, but I know it's hard to understand considering naya naya pace ka shauk chadha hai.
Imagine what would have happened if we actually had 145+ pacers like Pakistan instead of once in a blue moon 145+kph bowler.

Kapil dev before knee reconstruction was 135-140. 

[wazza]

19 hours ago, Adamant said:

Who calls Ambrose an express bowler? 

Whoever does that might be smoking weed while watching him. 

 

Ambrose was medium fast bowler who had excess bounce. 

 

Jamieson and Jansen are good examples too. 

Walsh himself was medium fast. 

 

 

Ambrose not medium fast dude. Fast medium...... 

135-140 speed. He is on the faster side. 

Best bowler ever. 

[Sgattick10]

How is Raj Bawa and Hangargekar doing? 

[putrevus]

20 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Who said this ?

Bumrah's peak pace is around 147, Prasidh's around 145. Average pace around 138-142

 

Shami still can hit 143-144k in T20's...Average pace is around 135-137.

 

150 is Tyagi's peak pace....he is a 142-146 kph bowler...so does Sen and Harshit Rana.

Prasidh avg speeds along with Taygi and other youngsters are after bowling 20 overs in a day or in t20s?

[putrevus]

10 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

India should have used him as a strike bowler rather than workhorse. India needs  a workhorse bowler who can go at 2 runs per over and let others bowl at other end. That element is missing. Umesh/Thakur/Siraj/Shami are all major run leakers in Tests. Cannot keep the opposition quiet.

That is what Ishant Sharma's job was , people are now understanding the importance of his role.

Edited June 22, 2023 by putrevus

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, wazza said:

Ambrose not medium fast dude. Fast medium...... 

135-140 speed. He is on the faster side. 

Best bowler ever. 

They believe fast medium=medium fast(commutative property of multiplication,you know)

27 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Prasidh avg speeds along with Taygi and other youngsters are after bowling 20 overs in a day or in t20s?

20+ overs average speed for these bowlers is around 137/138 or slightly more

Not more.

Express pacers are bowled in short bursts,that why they maintain higher average speed,where there whole usp lies

Grind them,their effectiveness won't be more than someone like Rahul Dravid bowling

Edited June 22, 2023 by Suhaan

[putrevus]

12 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Bhai kya behes kar rahe ho aur vo bh kisse

 

20+ overs average speed for these bowlers is around 137/138 or slightly more

Not more.

Express pacers are bowled in short bursts,that why they maintain higher average speed,where there whole usp lies

Grind them,their effectiveness won't be more than someone like Rahul Dravid bowling

I am interested here only in test bowlers .

 

Express bowlers or any other test bowler has to bowl 18 to 20 overs per day in test cricket. Any test bowler should be able to bowl a spell of 4-5 overs.Then they should be able to back it up by bowling another 20 overs the next day.

 

I doubt any of these guys will be able to maintain 137 in test cricket. 

 

Prasidh is medium pace at his best , people need stop making him into some express bowler.  He is never fit, him playing 11 FC matches in 7 years is testament to that fact.

 

Tyagi , I had lot of hope but he also has been injured a lot, I hope he comes out injury bug.

Edited June 22, 2023 by putrevus

[Suhaan]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Express bowlers or any other test bowler has to bowl 18 to 20 overs per day in test cricket. Any test bowler should be able to bowl a spell of 4-5 overs.Then they should be able to back it up by bowling another 20 overs the next day.

 

I doubt any of these guys will be able to

Express bowlers are bowled in short spells,barring Umran we don't have an express pacer but he needs more FC under his belt to get in reckoning

Second,it is yet to be seen how will they fare in tests,so can't predict whether they will exceed or lag behind our expectations

Tyagi hasn't played much FC,needs more overs in FC to improve

Prasidh was never branded as express he was fast medium,or high 140s bowler

Before injury he was struggling with his speed as well

Pre 2021 he was in his best rythem

[putrevus]

12 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Express bowlers are bowled in short spells,barring Umran we don't have an express pacer but he needs more FC under his belt to get in reckoning

Second,it is yet to be seen how will they fare in tests,so can't predict whether they will exceed or lag behind our expectations

Tyagi hasn't played much FC,needs more overs in FC to improve

Prasidh was never branded as express he was fast medium,or high 140s bowler

Before injury he was struggling with his speed as well

Pre 2021 he was in his best rythem

Short spells in test cricket are 4 overs atleast. You risk injury if you keep warming them over and over again.

 

I doubt Umran ever will be a viable option for India. It is completely on him, he has been given all the chances to succeed.He has not progressed one bit IMO.I would be happy to proven otherwise.

 

There is no express test bowler in India. Prasidh was bowling high 120s in some of his odi spells.

 

There have been lot of fast mediums in India before also.

[zen]

Pace is important. Many pacers such as Donald, Waqar, etc. (who had skills too) became less impactful when they lost pace. 
 

McGrath lost pace but was able to use the conditions well in Aus (cracks on pitches) and  Eng (overhead conditions).  Marshall too lost some pace but he was highly skillful. These are relatively rare examples. 

 

Many Indian bowlers are not that skillful and require pace to be relatively more successful. There is a reason why no Indian pace bowler is rated among the top 10 or so bowlers of all time. 
 

 

[vvvslaxman]

50 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

They believe fast medium=medium fast(commutative property of multiplication,you know)

20+ overs average speed for these bowlers is around 137/138 or slightly more

Not more.

Express pacers are bowled in short bursts,that why they maintain higher average speed,where there whole usp lies

Grind them,their effectiveness won't be more than someone like Rahul Dravid bowling

 

There was a stat gathered in ODI for average speed of bowlers in 2018

 

https://cricket.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Currently_Active_Fast_Bowlers

 

Mostly it hovers around 138. This is ODI. I think in Tests it might be 135 or so. But i think among Indian bowlers Shami is likely to have higher average speed without having a great top speed. That guy is a machine who can bowl all day at almost the same speed. 

 

 

[Suhaan]

41 minutes ago, putrevus said:

here is no express test bowler in India. Prasidh was bowling high 120s in some of his odi spells.

That was before "eventually "getting injured,he is someone who used to bowl 140+ most of the times

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

That was before "eventually "getting injured,he is someone who used to bowl 140+ most of the times

 

His fragile body doesn't give me confidence. Among the noobs kartik Tyagi looks the most promising. But he has to take it to next level pretty fast.

[Suhaan]

39 minutes ago, zen said:

Pace is important. Many pacers such as Donald, Waqar, etc. (who had skills too) became less impactful when they lost pace. 
 

McGrath lost pace but was able to use the conditions well in Aus (cracks on pitches) and  Eng (overhead conditions).  Marshall too lost some pace but he was highly skillful. These are relatively rare examples. 

 

Many Indian bowlers are not that skillful and require pace to be relatively more successful. There is a reason why no Indian pace bowler is rated among the top 10 or so bowlers of all time. 
 

 

Indian pitches have been most pathetic for pacers,all they survive based on reverse swing

[Suhaan]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

His fragile body doesn't give me confidence. Among the noobs kartik Tyagi looks the most promising. But he has to take it to next level pretty fast.

Ever since he was named Nagarkotis replacement in KKR in 2018 ,he remained mostly injury free till 2022

Had a great debut series against England's super lineup in early 2021

 

Tyagi although young and promising,too is quite fragile

Edited June 22, 2023 by Suhaan

[Suhaan]

38 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

There was a stat gathered in ODI for average speed of bowlers in 2018

 

https://cricket.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Currently_Active_Fast_Bowlers

 

Mostly it hovers around 138. This is ODI. I think in Tests it might be 135 or so. But i think among Indian bowlers Shami is likely to have higher average speed without having a great top speed. That guy is a machine who can bowl all day at almost the same speed. 

 

 

There was also a graphic iirc where they showed Indian test bowling unit was quite fast or

Can someone share that graphic here?2-3 years old graphic

They showed it during Ind-Eng 2021 test series(away)

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Ever since he was named Nagarkotis replacement in KKR in 2018 ,he remained mostly injury free till 2022

Had a great debut series against England's super lineup in early 2021

 

Tyagi although young and promising,too is quite fragile

 

Atleast he focuses on the right muscles with workouts albeit he needs to watch how Cummins trains himself who doesn't indulge in too much of upper body workout.

[rkt.india]

On 6/21/2023 at 7:35 PM, vvvslaxman said:

There is one bowler that is mistaken to be express infact he was not. When Ambrose ran through England along with Walsh he was clocking clocking 81.mph mostly. But that height and his skill made him unplayable even at lower speed. On pitches that aided paces he was even more deadly. Jamieson ,Jansen were potent due to their height. You need atleast one tall bowler preferably one can swing .

and that maybe at the end of his career. walsh was certainly medium fast but not Ambrose.