'You've left it to fate. There's no planning here': Pathan baffled at India's Ashwin move, Kaif gives blistering verdict

[R!TTER]

2 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

His bowling may be less threatening but against BD at least it was acceptable considering his hitting prowess. He was no worse than Jadeja

Nope, he's been poor with the ball over a long time now! He avg above 60 against Oz in India on those tracks - these are not flattering results given he hasn't really developed much in the IPL either. Playing Axar as a batter is already a gamble, as an A/R or bowler especially for turning tracks is even worse. I'd rather pick Ashwin or Sunday as of now.

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, Number said:

Bhajji is going on and on about Chahal's exclusion. Flmao..

Suggests that he has fought with someone or has someone something bad lol

 

If there is an XI made of no. XIs Yuzi will bat at no. 11 in that.

He is one of the worst fielders in the history of cricket. Safely worst I have seen.

With his bowling it is hardly like he is extra ordinary.

 

I am so glad that a logical guy like Agarkar is handling selections and Rohit also understands that we can't have 4 no. XIs in the playing 11.

Fans call him Jealous bhajan lol

[Nikhil_cric]

27 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Nope, he's been poor with the ball over a long time now! He avg above 60 against Oz in India on those tracks - these are not flattering results given he hasn't really developed much in the IPL either. Playing Axar as a batter is already a gamble, as an A/R or bowler especially for turning tracks is even worse. I'd rather pick Ashwin or Sunday as of now.

I agree there are no ideal options as far as all-rounders are concerned. 

 

But I think aggressive batting tends to win ODIs more often than not .  All of them are gambles. 

 

Especially when you are looking to play "bowling all-rounders" . They are all frauds to varying degrees and that's why the Aussies generally don't believe in bowling all-rounders unless they make it as wicket taking bowlers first and foremost.

 

Since Sep 05, 2014

 

And against SA/SL/OZ/NZ/ENG/PAK, Jadeja averages 64 with the ball at a strike rate of 74 while taking 32 wickets in 48 matches

 

Those are not the stats of a match winning, wicket taking bowler. He is a part timer against those sides and has been so for 9 years now. 

 

If you have watched him in recent times, he struggles to hit at the death. Batting strike rate in the 50's in last couple of years. 

 

Washington has been impressive in patches but has barely been consistent and often injured.

 

Ashwin has been a rubbish ODI spinner since 2015 World Cup and has only played 2 ODIs in 6 years and was poor in both. 

 

Don't look at IPL/Test form for 50 overs selection.  That never works. There's a unique rhythm to this format that's not easy to adapt to . Exceptional talents like Brook have struggled despite great Test/T20 league form.

 

Axar is a proven hitter at 7/8 and can be used as a floater to hit spin in the middle overs as well. And can provide a couple of wickets on a turning track. 

 

You know what you get with him and he has played for India quite a lot recently .

 

At least imo, there's a greater case for Axar than anyone else. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Axar vs pace avge 13 SR 102

Jaddu vs pace ave 30 SR 92

Sundar vs Pace ave 40 SR 94

 

While Axar has done well against BD , Windies in ODIs he has some limitations that will be exploited by bigger teams. Being better than Jaddu should not be the sole criteria with part time level bowling. This is why people want Tilak. If Axar bowling is part time level why not go with a genuine batsman with part time skill.  Axar has to improve his bowling.

[Nikhil_cric]

26 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Axar vs pace avge 13 SR 102

Jaddu vs pace ave 30 SR 92

Sundar vs Pace ave 40 SR 94

 

While Axar has done well against BD , Windies in ODIs he has some limitations that will be exploited by bigger teams. Being better than Jaddu should not be the sole criteria with part time level bowling. This is why people want Tilak. If Axar bowling is part time level why not go with a genuine batsman with part time skill.  Axar has to improve his bowling.

I don't mind Sundar as the spin bowling all-rounder of the side. 

 

Heck, just stick with Jadeja but just don't select the 3rd spinner. That is completely useless. 

 

No matter who is picked I don't want more than 1 from all of Axar/Ashwin/Jadeja/Sundar in the 15.  

 

If it's Ashwin or Jadeja , they have to bat at 8 and perform as bowlers first.

 

If it's Axar or Washington, you can send them up as floaters to hit or build respectively. 

 

And this one spin allrounder should only be brought for specific situations/conditions/nighles

 

I just want the extra pacer in Prasidh. 

 

2 out of Shardul/Prasidh/Pandya should rotate as 3rd/4th pacers in the middle overs

 

2 out of Shami/Siraj/Bumrah should rotate as new ball pacers.

 

Those heavy, restrictive lengths are needed in the middle overs to stifle batting lineups and only Pandya and Prasidh can do that somewhat .

 

Tilak Varma should come in for one of Shreyas/SKY

 

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

26 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I don't mind Sundar as the spin bowling all-rounder of the side. 

 

Heck, just stick with Jadeja but just don't select the 3rd spinner. That is completely useless. 

 

No matter who is picked I don't want more than 1 from all of Axar/Ashwin/Jadeja/Sundar in the 15.  

 

If it's Ashwin or Jadeja , they have to bat at 8 and perform as bowlers first.

 

If it's Axar or Washington, you can send them up as floaters to hit or build respectively. 

 

And this one spin allrounder should only be brought for specific situations/conditions/nighles

 

I just want the extra pacer in Prasidh. 

 

2 out of Shardul/Prasidh/Pandya should rotate as 3rd/4th pacers in the middle overs

 

2 out of Shami/Siraj/Bumrah should rotate as new ball pacers.

 

Those heavy, restrictive lengths are needed in the middle overs to stifle batting lineups and only Pandya and Prasidh can do that somewhat .

 

Tilak Varma should come in for one of Shreyas/SKY

 

 

 

 

At this point I would take Tewatia over SKY. Ideally pressure finishers like Rinku will add more value

[vvvslaxman]

Only upside with Ashwin with bat is he won't lose his mind while batting in pressure situation. With 12 to get 10 balls Axar should have finished it. Needless Hoick down the wicket cost his wicket. He could have done with a couple of ground shots. 

[sensible-indian]

Is this a fair assessment of our squad for WC?

 

Sure lock ins - Batsmen

 

1. Rohit Sharma
2. Shubman Gill
3. Virat Kohli
4. KL Rahul

 

Sure lock ins - Pacers

 

5. Jasprit Bumrah
6. Mohammed Siraj

 

Sure lock ins - Spinners

 

7. Kuldeep Yadav

 

Sure lock ins - All rounders

 

8. Hardik Pandya

9. Shardul Thakur
 

Up for grabs

 

10 & 11. Two from this gang (Iyer/Ishan/Suryakumar/Gaikwad/Tilak Varma)
12. Ravindra Jadeja/Axar Patel
13. Mohammed Shami/Prasidh
14. Washington Sundar/R. Ashwin

15. One spot open for an exceptional performer in any category

 

So we will end up with

 

6 pure batsmen

3 pure pacers

1 pure spinner

2 ARs

2 semi ARs

1 spot open for an exceptional performer

 

Of course, an argument can be made that these semi ARs (Jaddu/Axar/Washi/Ash) don't add enough value and limit them to just 1 spot.

Tbf Jaddu ain't a semi AR but a proper one...I am just categorizing him that way based on form and for simplicity sake.

Edited September 20, 2023 by sensible-indian

[Nikhil_cric]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Only upside with Ashwin with bat is he won't lose his mind while batting in pressure situation. With 12 to get 10 balls Axar should have finished it. Needless Hoick down the wicket cost his wicket. He could have done with a couple of ground shots. 

He was injured. He got us to that point when it looked finished earlier. Should have come in at 7.

[Nikhil_cric]

4 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Is this a fair assessment of our squad for WC?

 

Sure lock ins - Batsmen

 

1. Rohit Sharma
2. Shubman Gill
3. Virat Kohli
4. KL Rahul

 

Sure lock ins - Pacers

 

5. Jasprit Bumrah
6. Mohammed Siraj

 

Sure lock ins - Spinners

 

7. Kuldeep Yadav

 

Sure lock ins - All rounders

 

8. Hardik Pandya

9. Shardul Thakur
 

Up for grabs

 

10 & 11. Two from this gang (Iyer/Ishan/Suryakumar/Gaikwad/Tilak Varma)
12. Ravindra Jadeja/Axar Patel
13. Mohammed Shami/Prasidh
14. Washington Sundar/R. Ashwin

15. One spot open for an exceptional performer in any category

 

So we will end up with

 

6 pure batsmen

3 pure pacers

1 pure spinner

2 ARs

2 semi ARs

1 spot open for an exceptional performer

As far as I can tell - Jadeja, Shami, SKY, Kishan are all locks. 

 

Shreyas has fitness issues so Tilak may come in.  

 

If Axar does not get fit, one of Washi/Ash will come in .

[sensible-indian]

1 minute ago, Nikhil_cric said:

As far as I can tell - Jadeja, Shami, SKY, Kishan are all locks. 

 

Shreyas has fitness issues so Tilak may come in.  

 

If Axar does not get fit, one of Washi/Ash will come in .

- Yeah Jaddu might be a sure shot lock in.

 

- Kishan too might be. Backup WK (I totally forgot). 

 

- SKY ain't a lock in imho.

 

- Management will want atleast one off spinner unless both Washi and Ash suck.

[sensible-indian]

Why isn't Jaiswal in any of the squads?

 

He has a List A average of 53.

Edited September 20, 2023 by sensible-indian

[The Realist]

If they want an experienced spinner who can also bat, why not Jaydev Unadkat?

[Nikhil_cric]

40 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Why isn't Jaiswal in any of the squads?

 

He has a List A average of 53.

Where will he bat? 

[sensible-indian]

3 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Where will he bat? 

Opening with Gill with Rohit one down.

 

They are trying out Rutu who opens too right?

 

But i guess they prefer Rutu cos he averages 60 in List A.

 

I feel Jaiswal's ceiling is way more.

 

Just too little time to test anyone sadly.

 

[bowl_out]

4 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

- Yeah Jaddu might be a sure shot lock in.

 

- Kishan too might be. Backup WK (I totally forgot). 

 

- SKY ain't a lock in imho.

 

- Management will want atleast one off spinner unless both Washi and Ash suck.

 

The problem is Iyer is always injured, SKY sucks and Tilak is unknown. 

That is why they played Kishan (the backup keeper) at 5 despite having KL (the first choice keeper) at 4 as well.

 

If Iyer remains injured, and Tilak does well, he might come into the 15 and possibly the 11 as well, with SKY and Kishan benched.

Samson was shaping up to do this role, but Tilak and Kishan trumped him because they are Left-hand-bat.

 

SKY is still the most questionable selection..

 

I think either of Washi or Ash will still be an upgrade over Axar.. Ash still looks a better package overall in subcontinent conditions.. As much as like Washi, he needs to establish what his primary skill is

[sensible-indian]

35 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

 

The problem is Iyer is always injured, SKY sucks and Tilak is unknown. 

That is why they played Kishan (the backup keeper) at 5 despite having KL (the first choice keeper) at 4 as well.

 

If Iyer remains injured, and Tilak does well, he might come into the 15 and possibly the 11 as well, with SKY and Kishan benched.

Samson was shaping up to do this role, but Tilak and Kishan trumped him because they are Left-hand-bat.

 

SKY is still the most questionable selection..

 

I think either of Washi or Ash will still be an upgrade over Axar.. Ash still looks a better package overall in subcontinent conditions.. As much as like Washi, he needs to establish what his primary skill is

Yes its a mess.

 

Lets see what the Aus series goes.

 

Im worried about our lower middle order which needs to absorb pressure at crucial junctures.

 

I dont see anyone there who can do it except Pandya.

[vvvslaxman]

5 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

Why isn't Jaiswal in any of the squads?

 

He has a List A average of 53.

 

He will join soon. India has a lot of top order options.  It is the finisher we want. In recent times so many times we wimp out in the end. Middle order batsmen don't last long enough.  Last 10 overs  60,70 are not enough. Some teams can score well over 100 easily. Only finisher i can think of  is Rinku singh who gives MSD vibe with his finishes. 

[wanted_desi]

Chahal not making the squad made me so happy as i have been shouting that how useless player he is. He should have never played that Semi Final against NZ where he got smashed in low scoring game. It should have been same way Prabakar never made it after that thrashing he received in WC96. 

[rollingstoned]

15 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

The accusations are correct that this management has NO planning.

 

But in this case, what are we supposed to do?

 

- Axar got injured.

 

- Chahal has been unreliable.

 

- Jaddu hasn't been great in recent times.

 

- Sundar coming back from injury (not as effective bowling plus not sure about his batting in LOI).

 

So who else to call up?

 

Or should we play Chahal just for continuity sake?

 

Aus series will give us more clarity.

They're not saying that the move is not the right one now, just that these circumstances could have been avoided with better planning. 

In the last 2 yrs or so the only other players they've had competing for these 'spinners who can bat a bit role' were Bishnoi who is majorly a T20 spinner still, Shahbaz Ahmed who is yet anther Axar and Jadeja clone and for a while Rahul Chahar. Sundars name you mentioned.