Iyer vs Sky vs Kisan - Who'd you pick?

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

He has scored tons in T20s, you think he cant score in ODIs, Today would have scored if he had 10-15 more deliveries.

 

no. 6 won't score 150-160 lol

 

Bracewell made 127 batting at no.8 Infact 2 centuries.   Buttler has 5 centuries batting there. MSD 3 centuries.

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

He can score 70-80 in those 40 balls and change the game. That's what most no. 6 are supposed to do.

 

Yea if Cam Green and Abbott dishing out on a flat track with set platform. HE almost got stumped by the keeper. Anyone with better reflexes he was gone for all money.

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Bracewell made 127 batting at no.8 Infact 2 centuries.   Buttler has 5 centuries batting there. MSD 3 centuries.

MSD 3 in a long career. Buttler has same approach as SKY, these are not innings builders.

 

Bracewell again is big hitter not innings builder.

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

MSD 3 in a long career. Buttler has same approach as SKY, these are not innings builders.

 

Bracewell again is big hitter not innings builder.

 

You have to go long and deep. Also Buttler can play second gear if needed to. He is not a 360 degree guy primarily. Simple hitter infront of the wicket.  It is not just him.  Yusuf pathan has 2 centuries batting even further down. We are only focusing on comfortable scenario with good platform. Also teams like ENgland has batting upto 10.  Indian batting literally stops at 7. I am being generous with Jaddu here considering him as a batsman. So if he loses his wicket that is pretty much it.

[vvvslaxman]

I just hope Iyer or Kishan stay fit making this debate moot.

[Suhaan]

I will keep Iyer and try to somehow accommodate Kishan,got a feeling he will play some ridiculously annihilating innings in one of KO matches to break the jinx

But goes hand in hand with inventive TM ,they will rather go with safer options

Can't complain now,though

Edited September 25, 2023 by Suhaan

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

I will keep Iyer and try to somehow accommodate Kishan,got a feeling he will play some ridiculously divine innings for us in one of KO matches to break the jinx

But goes hand in hand with inventive TM ,they will rather go with safer options

Can't complain now,though

 

Combination will be 5 (batsmen) + 2(all rounders) + 4(bowlers)

 

5 BATSMEN

 1) Rohit

 2) Gill

 3) Kohli

 4) Rahul

 5) Iyer/Kishan/SKY

2 ALL ROUNDERS

 6) Pandya

 7) Jadeja

 4 BOWLERS

 8) Shami/Thakur/Ashwin

 9) Bumrah

10) Siraj

11) Kuldeep

 

I am not at all comfortable with sitting Shami out. Many countries would take him in a heartbeat. It is going to be quiet a challenge. Pitch reading has to be absolutely spot on.

[Suhaan]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Combination will be 5 (batsmen) + 2(all rounders) + 4(bowlers)

 

5 BATSMEN

 1) Rohit

 2) Gill

 3) Kohli

 4) Rahul

 5) Iyer/Kishan/SKY

2 ALL ROUNDERS

 6) Pandya

 7) Jadeja

 4 BOWLERS

 8) Shami/Thakur/Ashwin

 9) Bumrah

10) Siraj

11) Kuldeep

 

I am not at all comfortable with sitting Shami out. Many countries would take him in a heartbeat. It is going to be quiet a challenge. Pitch reading has to be absolutely spot on.

Jadeja's place is debatable,can be taken over by anyone

Jadeja is a pseudo AR

Ideally should have been dropped for Prasidh in the squad

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Jadeja's place is debatable,can be taken over by anyone

Jadeja is a pseudo AR

Ideally should have been dropped for Prasidh in the squad

 

He is creating a silent imbalance in this. No question about that. It doesn't matter how well he bowls. Batting at 7 have some minimum requirements. He doesn't meet them.

[Jamadagni]

I've seen enough of Kishan in MI. On spinning and slow wickets, he is an absolute dud. He looks good only on flat tracks, where SKY is even better. So no brainer between Ishan and SKY. 

 

I don't rate Iyer much overall, but he has good temperament AND the WC is being played in India, so he is crucial in those middle overs against spin. Ideally both Iyer and SKY should play. 

 

Rohit

Gill

Kohli

Iyer

Rahul

Pandya

SKY

Ashwin

Kuldeep

Bumrah

Siraj

 

 

But the dumbass Dravid already decided the team combination 180 months back, so they would play only 5 batsmen. In that case, I'd choose SKY. 

[vvvslaxman]

They can try slotting Jadeja up the order. Downside is he can literally kill the momentum in the middle overs. May be on occasions where the par total is low  and we just need someone to see off a spell he can be slotted. It is just not possible to get the best out of Jadeja as a batsman given his skillsets.

[Vijy]

flat tracks where the best bowling is crucial:

rohit

gill

kohli

rahul (wk)

Jaddu --> not happy with jadeja, but it is better to use him up the order than at 7, where he cannot hit.

pandya

SKY --> better bet on pattas, where he can come down the order at no. 7 (in place of iyer)

bumrah

shami/prasidh

kuldeep

siraj

 

spinning tracks or sluggish tracks:

rohit

gill

kohli

iyer

rahul (wk)

jaddu

pandya

ashwin

bumrah [prasidh/shami as back-up]

kuldeep

siraj [prasidh/shami as back-up]

 

I have not listed a team for pace-friendly tracks, since we are not likely to see many of these in WC.

 

[sandeep]

16 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Then TM is out of their mind lol 40 balls in a 300 ball game.  I am not talking abotu Samson. At international level in the matches played together Samson has comfortably outperformed SKY. I am talking about this weird thought of picking SKY over Iyer/Kishan. 

As much as I like Samson's batting, the blunt reality is that Samson has put up about the same level of consistency/reliability as Sky, while SKY has proven a much higher SR/ceiling than him.  Yes, Samson's more recent performances show a non-trivial improvement, but sadly not enough to drag him into contention.  Ultimately if you want to get into Indian batting unit, you got to put up centuries, and that too consistently.  Samson hasn't even done that at FC levels regularly enough.   

[Sean Bradley]

Pecking Order for the TM would be

 

Iyer

Kishan

SKY

 

Iyer is someone who plays with a positive intent from the word go. Hes the most important batter in line up after Ro&Ko.

 

Ishan & SKY are good on their days. but Iyer trumps them on consistency and intent. 

 

[vvvslaxman]

16 minutes ago, sandeep said:

As much as I like Samson's batting, the blunt reality is that Samson has put up about the same level of consistency/reliability as Sky, while SKY has proven a much higher SR/ceiling than him.  Yes, Samson's more recent performances show a non-trivial improvement, but sadly not enough to drag him into contention.  Ultimately if you want to get into Indian batting unit, you got to put up centuries, and that too consistently.  Samson hasn't even done that at FC levels regularly enough.   

 

I think Samson not being not given a run is one reason. He is always part of second string team. Even after Pant's exit they insisted only KL Rahul ahead of Kishan/Samson. SKY was nowhere in contention until that crazy T20 year so much so they backed him in Tests ahead of strong domestic performers. Clearly there is  a bit of favoritism that is helping him. They are hand holding SKY to be successful in ODIs. 

[Lord]

11 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

They can try slotting Jadeja up the order. Downside is he can literally kill the momentum in the middle overs. May be on occasions where the par total is low  and we just need someone to see off a spell he can be slotted. It is just not possible to get the best out of Jadeja as a batsman given his skillsets.

too late now, but it should have been tried for 10-15 bilateral games. Not much to lose.

 

Such an obvious thing and both TM missed it.

[Vijy]

49 minutes ago, Lord said:

too late now, but it should have been tried for 10-15 bilateral games. Not much to lose.

 

Such an obvious thing and both TM missed it.

yes, I would think that jaddu can bat at 5. can't score at more than 90-95 SR, but it would be enough

[sandeep]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

SKY was nowhere in contention until that crazy T20 year so much so they backed him in Tests ahead of strong domestic performers. Clearly there is  a bit of favoritism that is helping him. They are hand holding SKY to be successful in ODIs. 

SKY demonstrated consistency in T20 and a special level of talent - he's a high SR batter that we badly need in our middle order.  His special ability earn him the long rope - and he's demonstrated effectiveness and consistency at the international level.  Samson's FC and List A record is horribly subpar given his batting talent.  You can't expect to be given automatic long rope unless you bring a skillset that fits a gap in team needs. Sky benefits from the latter, Sanju unfortunately is a top order bat (an inconsistent one) who can keep wickets.  Both KLPD and Ishan are ahead of him, and Sanju isn't even left-handed.  Them's the breaks.  Only way for him to break through is to put up consistent performances every chance he gets and time it with a vacancy in the top 4/5. 

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

SKY demonstrated consistency in T20 and a special level of talent - he's a high SR batter that we badly need in our middle order.  His special ability earn him the long rope - and he's demonstrated effectiveness and consistency at the international level.  Samson's FC and List A record is horribly subpar given his batting talent.  You can't expect to be given automatic long rope unless you bring a skillset that fits a gap in team needs. Sky benefits from the latter, Sanju unfortunately is a top order bat (an inconsistent one) who can keep wickets.  Both KLPD and Ishan are ahead of him, and Sanju isn't even left-handed.  Them's the breaks.  Only way for him to break through is to put up consistent performances every chance he gets and time it with a vacancy in the top 4/5. 

Most of the batting requirements are already there. One missing element is spinng all rounder who score at a high strike rate. Rest of the middle order meet the requirements of handling multiple scenarios in the middle order. Iyer, Rahul, Kishan. SKY has to be super-consistent given that there are only 5 specialist batsmen with 2 all rounders one of which is utterly useless batsman.  This is where things can go south whenever we have a top order collapse. I just don't trust this guy yet to pull us out of very tricky situation in challenging conditions.  He hasn't demonstrated it yet. Even in T20 he failed in some crucial matches when we needed him. Semi final, MCG match, World T20 matches at Dubai. His inconsistency can be tolerated in T20 not in ODI. 

[Nikhil_cric]

SKY's ceiling is higher than anyone else in this lineup to get us well above par like yesterday but his floor is also lower than anybody else's. You expect SKY to come in and rebuild at 5 on  a spinning deck? No chance of that happening.

 

Might as well have picked Samson then.  If SKY is picked , he HAS to bat at 6 or 7 and absolutely blast us well above par. Therein lies his value.

 

Come dew, artificial lights, hell or high water, we will be safe. Or he can give impetus to a steep chase.

 

But this useless lot will probably rotate Iyer out and play SKY at 5, Pandya at 6, Jadeja at 7. And because the batting has no solidity after 4, they'll play Thakur at 8 for 5 extra runs and we'll neither get above par nor will we able to defend if dew comes in when Thakur struggles to grip his cutters and slower balls. 

 

Absolutely infuriating that we are going to have to put up with this. 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Nikhil_cric