Ashwin replaces Axar in India's final World Cup squad !!

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Nikhil_cric said:

It is absolutely a choice .  Sacrifice bowling strength, play the extra batter and get 3-4 overs of part time spin from the batters .

 

 

Indian part timers are untrustworthy at this point. Ship has sailed. They should have tried for atleast an year. Suddenly throwing some part timer may cost us badly as couple of 20 run over will completely destroy everything we gain with an extra batsman. Right now India just has to hope that top 5 click all the time and every time.

[sensible-indian]

7 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

It is absolutely a choice .  Sacrifice bowling strength, play the extra batter and get 3-4 overs of part time spin from the batters .

 

If we coulda we woulda.

 

That coulda is really doubtful which is why we are having this debate.

 

No such debate during WC 2015.

[Nikhil_cric]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Indian part timers are untrustworthy at this point. Ship has sailed. They should have tried for atleast an year. Suddenly throwing some part timer may cost us badly as couple of 20 run over will completely destroy everything we gain with an extra batsman. Right now India just has to hope that top 5 click all the time and every time.

A year? Random guys like Glenn Philips started rolling their arms over like 2 months back. 

Part time off spin does not require fine skills .

 

Maxwell had bowled like 2 overs in ODI cricket for over a year and came back and took wickets .

 

Dude bowled with an injured ankle

[Nikhil_cric]

3 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

If we coulda we woulda.

 

That coulda is really doubtful which is why we are having this debate.

 

No such debate during WC 2015.

It's not about coulda.  Every bowler will get hit on a flat track . Even the great Bumrah got smashed to smithereens yesterday 

 

Even Shubman and Rohit can give 2 overs each and they won't get destroyed anywhere as much as you believe 

[sensible-indian]

8 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

It's not about coulda.  Every bowler will get hit on a flat track . Even the great Bumrah got smashed to smithereens yesterday 

 

Even Shubman and Rohit can give 2 overs each and they won't get destroyed anywhere as much as you believe 

I kinda agree.

 

But....

 

- Do it for all games and teams will come prepared to take them on. Ok lets say they go for 30-40 runs in their 4 overs. 1 bad over can fetch 20 runs so thats very doable. Still....phir bhi teekh hai.

 

- Teams will also know that they will get 10 overs from every main bowler even if they have an off-day. They can target someone and know that he will have to be bowled out.

 

- And all it takes is Surya or Pandya to get out cheaply to negate all the benefits.

 

In a long enough tournament, every flaw will be exposed and put to the test.

 

Which is why, I said let the testing and data decide.

Edited September 28, 2023 by sensible-indian

[Nikhil_cric]

15 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

I kinda agree.

 

But....

 

- Do it for all games and teams will come prepared to take them on. Ok lets say they go for 30-40 runs in their 4 overs. Chalo teek hai.

 

- Teams will also know that they will get 10 overs from every main bowler even if they have an off-day. They can target someone and know that he will have to be bowled out.

 

- And all it takes is Surya or Pandya to get out cheaply to negate all the benefits.

 

In a long enough tournament, every flaw will be exposed and put to the test.

 

Which is why, I said let the testing and data decide.

This is a myth. An absolute myth. Teams do come prepared to hit the part timer from ball 1 whether they have faced him or not .

 

If it's a positive match up, they will take him down or at least try to. They don't play forward defensive to full tosses like our #3

 

Part timers from other teams do go for 40 runs from 4 overs . But teams are perfectly OK with that. Because it doesn't happen every game .

 

Tilak Varma bowled vs BD. Did he get smashed out of the park?

 

In fact, he almost got a wicket and it was his first match. And by the time they attacked him, he had already sneaked in 4 overs less than 6 RPO.

 

Perfect.

 

And mind you, teams are absolutely looking to go batting heavy and bowl 10 overs of part time spin . 

 

They absolutely don't mind that trade off . Glenn Phillips will bowl 10 overs of close to at some point. Markram might.

 

The gap between part timer economy and full time bowlers has actually decreased not increased since 2015.

 

Over aggresive batters also lose wickets to part timers.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Nikhil_cric

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, sensible-indian said:

I kinda agree.

 

But....

 

- Do it for all games and teams will come prepared to take them on. Ok lets say they go for 30-40 runs in their 4 overs. 1 bad over can fetch 20 runs so thats very doable. Still....phir bhi teekh hai.

 

- Teams will also know that they will get 10 overs from every main bowler even if they have an off-day. They can target someone and know that he will have to be bowled out.

 

- And all it takes is Surya or Pandya to get out cheaply to negate all the benefits.

 

In a long enough tournament, every flaw will be exposed and put to the test.

 

Which is why, I said let the testing and data decide.

Axar Patel is the greatest cricketer of all-time.

 

50 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

This is a myth. An absolute myth. Teams do come prepared to hit the part timer from ball 1 whether they have faced him or not .

 

If it's a positive match up, they will take him down or at least try to. They don't play forward defensive to full tosses like our #3

 

Part timers from other teams do go for 40 runs from 4 overs . But teams are perfectly OK with that. Because it doesn't happen every game .

 

Tilak Varma bowled vs BD. Did he get smashed out of the park?

 

In fact, he almost got a wicket and it was his first match. And by the time they attacked him, he had already sneaked in 4 overs less than 6 RPO.

 

Perfect.

 

And mind you, teams are absolutely looking to go batting heavy and bowl 10 overs of part time spin . 

 

They absolutely don't mind that trade off . Glenn Phillips will bowl 10 overs of close to at some point. Markram might.

 

The gap between part timer economy and full time bowlers has actually decreased not increased since 2015.

 

Over aggresive batters also lose wickets to part timers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TrueAllRounder]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

It is absolutely a choice .  Sacrifice bowling strength, play the extra batter and get 3-4 overs of part time spin from the batters .

 

Spin from which batter?

[gattaca]

Make ashwin warm bench and play kuldeep don’t select ashwin because batting might struggle 

[TrueAllRounder]

So Virat and Ashwin may become first Indians to win 2 WC ?

[cowboysfan]

4 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Indian part timers are untrustworthy at this point. Ship has sailed. They should have tried for atleast an year. Suddenly throwing some part timer may cost us badly as couple of 20 run over will completely destroy everything we gain with an extra batsman. Right now India just has to hope that top 5 click all the time and every time.

i agree.lets hope someone like Tilak can improve his bowling to a point that he can be relied upon to bowl 5-6 overs a game.

[nitinbwj]

14 hours ago, vivek04 said:

Ashwin is not a wicket taker in odis. If pitch doesn’t turn he will be further ineffective. He is an average fielder and  also dont have power hitting if requires. However he has experience to bowl against quality opposition to contain runs. Ultimately there are more cons than pros. Hoping he would justify his selection.

Wait and watch. He won the the second ODI for us by ball. Who took 3 wickets ?

[nitinbwj]

5 hours ago, gattaca said:

Make ashwin warm bench and play kuldeep don’t select ashwin because batting might struggle 

lol...it will improve. Ashwin can give you 30 ball 40 more than Jaddu can ever do. Thakur is a glorified tailender at best now.

[nitinbwj]

8 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

A year? Random guys like Glenn Philips started rolling their arms over like 2 months back. 

Part time off spin does not require fine skills .

 

Maxwell had bowled like 2 overs in ODI cricket for over a year and came back and took wickets .

 

Dude bowled with an injured ankle

because our batsmen **** bricks against spin. He will be bashed by any other team like SA,NZ,ENG

[nitinbwj]

8 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

There is absolutely no doubt this is probably the best bowling attack any team can field for Indian conditions. 

 

Bumrah

Siraj

Shami

Ashwin

Jadeja

Kuldeep

 

As a combo this attack is handsdown the best bowling attack. But that only tells half the story. It incredibly affects the balance in the batting department. Either Jaddu has to bat like Stokes or Maxwell or even Shakib or someone from batting unit bowl like Markram. 

 

Ash alone > all 5 in batting  The opposition will bundle out these players for less than 50 with Ashwin scoring 35 

[Nikhil_cric]

8 minutes ago, nitinbwj said:

because our batsmen **** bricks against spin. He will be bashed by any other team like SA,NZ,ENG

Even main bowlers are going to be hit . It's LOI cricket . The bats, power hitting techniques and flat pitches means no bowler is going to stop bleeding runs. 

But you have to keep bowling full quotas of full bowlers because only they can give you wickets.

 

The only difference is that part timers have less wicket taking threat under normal circumstances.

 

 

[straighttalk]

12 hours ago, TrueAllRounder said:

So Virat and Ashwin may become first Indians to win 2 WC ?

India has too glaring flaws and will not win the wc... we have a dud no 8 bowler if Thakur is playing and our batting ends at 7... we will be found out in flat pitches where opposition puts 350 plus score and our top three does not do well. Else we will be screwed by left arm pacers or spinners on any track that's  sporting..in short I don't see India winning..I think we can go to semis perhaps

[TrueAllRounder]

17 minutes ago, straighttalk said:

India has too glaring flaws and will not win the wc... we have a dud no 8 bowler if Thakur is playing and our batting ends at 7... we will be found out in flat pitches where opposition puts 350 plus score and our top three does not do well. Else we will be screwed by left arm pacers or spinners on any track that's  sporting..in short I don't see India winning..I think we can go to semis perhaps

May not but can't rule them out as top contenders. If India wins, then second for Ashwin and Virat. Aus and Eng winning will also mean a second for some 

[Lord]

7 hours ago, nitinbwj said:

Wait and watch. He won the the second ODI for us by ball. Who took 3 wickets ?

 

Defending 400,he could bowl test match lengths. Was turning big too for him. Even Jadeja ended up with 3.

[vvvslaxman]

I was catching the complete replay of the warm ups. In between they showed what Indians are doing. 4 guys seemed to have practiced. Isan kishan, thakur, Gill, Ashwin. Ashwin has spent awful lot of time with bat and ball it seems. He  played a series of lofted shots when they showed. Also discussing with coach about certain shots. Then tried new variations with ball. So he is taking his batting very seriously.