The WC statistic that will hurt Indian cricket fans the most. This 50 over WC may be our last chance in atleast another decade ....

[putrevus]

25 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

Losing T20 final to SL in Asian conditions was freakish.  The way our great hitter Yuvi suddenly just couldn't lay bat on a ball at a crucial time was inexplicable and hard to predict.  

 

2019 loss was a direct consequence of poor planning and almost intentional sabotaging of the middle order.  

 

If we manage to find a way to lose 2023 WC, the primary mistake will be the failure to have any sort of bowling in top 5.  We should have groomed either a Sundar type player or found 5 overs of bowling somehow in top 5.  Imagine if we could play another batsman instead of Siraj, assuming Pandu was good enough to bowl5-7 overs as 3rd pacer.  Right now team is very hesitant to go with just Boom and Shami along with Kuldeep and Jaddu.  

2019 was also due to weather technically NZ should have been bowling in the evening under lights after they won the toss and batted.

 

Who knows how that match would have ended if NZ were bowling in the same evening.

 

Dhoni was a burden to the team , if any competent keeper was batting so long , he would have won the match for India.

Edited November 1, 2023 by putrevus

[Lord]

21 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Dont get defensive - Dravid's coaching record at the international level is not great.  He presided over us fluffing our Test series lead in England.  and WTC loss.  and T20 WC losses.  

 

 

 

That's true. But attributing a certain approach to 'Dravid mentality' is nothing but useless targetting.

 

And we lost WTC, WT20 earlier too. That too with nearly full strength squads.

[sandeep]

21 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

That's true. But attributing a certain approach to 'Dravid mentality' is nothing but useless targetting.

 

And we lost WTC, WT20 earlier too. That too with nearly full strength squads.

That's fair. 

[sandeep]

43 minutes ago, putrevus said:

2019 was also due to weather technically NZ should have been bowling in the evening under lights after they won the toss and batted.

 

Who knows how that match would have ended if NZ were bowling in the same evening.

 

Dhoni was a burden to the team , if any competent keeper was batting so long , he would have won the match for India.

Dhoni did "OK" in the semifinal. can't blame him when entire top order caved in.  Yes, he was past his prime and it showed that day. But he still stood up and almost got there.  He infuriatingly backed his 'take it deep' method even when his 'finishing' kick had faded quite a bit.  That was a tactical error.  But it wasn't just him.

 

Yes, team made a choice to carry a past-prime Dhoni in lower middle order. But an INDIAN batting unit that can't chase 240-odd? come on now.  That's an across the board failure, not on one guy.    

 

 

[Lord]

7 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Dhoni did "OK" in the semifinal. can't blame him when entire top order caved in.  Yes, he was past his prime and it showed that day. But he still stood up and almost got there.  He infuriatingly backed his 'take it deep' method even when his 'finishing' kick had faded quite a bit.  That was a tactical error.  But it wasn't just him.

 

Yes, team made a choice to carry a past-prime Dhoni in lower middle order. But an INDIAN batting unit that can't chase 240-odd? come on now.  That's an across the board failure, not on one guy.    

 

 

 

Dhoni needed to bat up the order to halt the collapse. By the time he came in, it became too difficult even with that Jaddu innings.

[rangeelaraja]

I think we have been unlucky alot as well.

 

2019 - We batted in far worse conditions than did NZ. The game went on for 2 days. 

 

But NZ has been a bloody boogie team for us for a while

 

Even 2000 ICC knockout trophy  in Nairobi - we beat a red hot great Aussie team and RSA team in prefinal knockout stages and lost to NZ in the finals.

 

Again in the 2002 ICC knockout trophy in Lanka - the game got rained out for 2 successive days when we had totally dominated Lanka in the finals ...we ended up bowling twice but not batting.

 

 

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Dhoni needed to bat up the order to halt the collapse. By the time he came in, it became too difficult even with that Jaddu innings.

 

I think the logic they went with was that let the younger guys bat early in the chase so they can bat more 'freely' and potentially kill off the chase if one of them gets in and gets going.  And the idea was that having Dhoni in reserve would help them feel more relaxed.  

 

Didn't quite work out that way, but one can disagree with the logic especially in hindsight, but wasn't the worst tactical ploy.  

 

Big problem was that we were lacking one middle order bat badly - and if Pant and Karthik were there -they should have played 10-20 ODIs in the 2 years leading to WC, which they never got.  That to me, is the bigger mistake.  Playing kho-kho with Rayudu, Vijay Shankar etc instead of grooming a proper middle order bat or 2 and getting them enough preparation ahead of world cup.

[putrevus]

6 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Dhoni did "OK" in the semifinal. can't blame him when entire top order caved in.  Yes, he was past his prime and it showed that day. But he still stood up and almost got there.  He infuriatingly backed his 'take it deep' method even when his 'finishing' kick had faded quite a bit.  That was a tactical error.  But it wasn't just him.

 

Yes, team made a choice to carry a past-prime Dhoni in lower middle order. But an INDIAN batting unit that can't chase 240-odd? come on now.  That's an across the board failure, not on one guy.    

 

 

I am not absolving top order. Top order dragged this team to semis, top order collpases happen, it happened against Australia too this world cup but Rahul and Kohli took India home.

 

Dhoni after staying at the wicket for long was still batting under 60 SR.He should have been kicked out of the team after his cowardly performance against England.

 

You cannot expect same players to perform all the time , that has been the problem for this team for a decade.Even now that is the problem.Dhawan has been replaced by Rahul.

 

Inzi took Pakistan home in 1992, Symonds did for Aussies in 2003. You need different players to chip in.

[putrevus]

29 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Dhoni needed to bat up the order to halt the collapse. By the time he came in, it became too difficult even with that Jaddu innings.

Does not matter where Dhoni batted, he never had ability to score runs other than nudges.

 

Dhoni was a burden on this team after 2013 both as a batsman and captain.

Edited November 1, 2023 by putrevus

[Sharjah-Harjah]

12 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

4 world cups - 2011, 2015, 2019, 2023 ( so far )

 

In these 4 world cups -  We have lost only 4 games, while winning a staggering 27 games.  This is an extraordinary achievement. 

 

I don't think any other nation can claim this achievement over 4 world cups - not even the so called dominant WI or Aussie teams.

 

For all this -if we are going to have just 1 world Cup winners crown ...it would only show how choking in knockouts has deprived Indian cricket of many a glory.

 

2023 WC is now or never for us. At home, team is in form. No excuses. 

 

We steamrolled teams in 2015 till we lost a single game and lost. We steam rolled teams in 2019 - till that dreadful game against Kiwis.

 

And we are steamrolling teams now in 2023.

 

We have  2 of the greatest ODI batters in the history of ODI cricket playing in this side - Virat and Rohit.   This time will not come again...

 

Don't think we will see talent like this for a while, nor are we going to host the WC for a while.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=won;spanmin1=01+Jan+2011;spanval1=span;template=results;trophy=12;type=team

 

View overall figures [change view]

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2011 

Trophy World Cup 

Totals in terms of batting team 

Ordered by matches won (descending)

 

 

Overall figures

Team	Span	Mat	Won	Lost	Tied	NR	W/L	Ave	RPO	Inns	HS	LS
India	2011-2023	32	27	4	1	0	6.750	44.65	5.77	32	370	221	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
New Zealand	2011-2023	33	23	9	1	0	2.555	36.91	5.67	33	393	153	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Australia	2011-2023	31	22	8	0	1	2.750	37.77	6.16	30	417	151	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Pakistan	2011-2023	30	18	12	0	0	1.500	32.13	5.41	30	348	105	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
South Africa	2011-2023	30	18	11	0	1	1.636	42.06	6.05	30	428	165	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Sri Lanka	2011-2023	29	15	13	0	1	1.153	36.46	5.66	29	363	133	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
England	2011-2023	30	13	15	2	0	0.866	32.43	5.78	30	397	123	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Bangladesh	2011-2023	27	10	17	0	0	0.588	28.32	5.17	27	333	58	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
West Indies	2011-2019	23	8	14	0	1	0.571	29.62	5.56	22	372	112	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Ireland	2011-2015	12	5	7	0	0	0.714	29.28	5.37	12	331	141	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Afghanistan	2015-2023	21	4	17	0	0	0.235	22.87	4.60	21	288	125	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Zimbabwe	2011-2015	12	3	9	0	0	0.333	27.38	5.28	12	326	162	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Netherlands	2011-2023	12	2	10	0	0	0.200	21.36	4.77	12	306	90	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Canada	2011-2011	6	1	5	0	0	0.200	19.51	4.00	6	261	122	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Kenya	2011-2011	6	0	6	0	0	0.000	16.64	3.93	6	264	69	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Scotland	2015-2015	6	0	6	0	0	0.000	20.67	4.84	6	318	130	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
U.A.E.	2015-2015	6	0	6	0	0	0.000	23.49	4.50	6	285	102	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif

 

This is also the second world cup india is playing at home with home advantage (2011 and now this one). They clearly know how to bowl and bat here, what lengths to bowl on every ground etc this also improves the record by quite a lot. 

Finally, World Cup in India nullifies India’s biggest Achilles heel: swing in PP specially by left armers. This is because India relies heavily on its top 3. Starc, Boult, and Shaheen, no one has found any swing in PP. 
 

Rohit Sharma and many of these guys are insane bullies in India. For example, Rohit has been Rauf’s bunny recently on decent cricket wickets, but on these graveyards, express pace is a disadvantage for guys like Wood and Rauf. This has to be the WC for India. 

[rangeelaraja]

7 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

This is also the second world cup india is playing at home with home advantage (2011 and now this one). They clearly know how to bowl and bat here, what lengths to bowl on every ground etc this also improves the record by quite a lot. 

Finally, World Cup in India nullifies India’s biggest Achilles heel: swing in PP specially by left armers. This is because India relies heavily on its top 3. Starc, Boult, and Shaheen, no one has found any swing in PP. 
 

Rohit Sharma and many of these guys are insane bullies in India. For example, Rohit has been Rauf’s bunny recently on decent cricket wickets, but on these graveyards, express pace is a disadvantage for guys like Wood and Rauf. This has to be the WC for India. 

 

 

The "home advantage " has been entirely blunted with IPL. All top white ball players have played IPL for years on these grounds in these conditions.

 

India almost entirely swept the group stages in Australia in 2015 and England in 2019 - which are as alien to Indian conditions as can be.

 

Rohit scored 5 tons in the 2019 WC in England.  He is probably worth more than your entire team in terms of batting class.

 

Sorry but the more you post, the more ignorant you sound. Just save yourself and others of the stupidity.

 

 

[Iconoclast]

Time to make moka moka ads for yourselves

[R!TTER]

5 hours ago, AuxiliA said:

In rest of the losses we weren't the better team in those particular match conditions.

We were better in 2014 too, IIRC dew had a major role in that game?

[Sharjah-Harjah]

1 hour ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

The "home advantage " has been entirely blunted with IPL. All top white ball players have played IPL for years on these grounds in these conditions.

 

India almost entirely swept the group stages in Australia in 2015 and England in 2019 - which are as alien to Indian conditions as can be.

 

Rohit scored 5 tons in the 2019 WC in England.  He is probably worth more than your entire team in terms of batting class.

 

Sorry but the more you post, the more ignorant you sound. Just save yourself and others of the stupidity.

 

 

 

So, you are saying India has no home advantage. It seems "luck", "rain", "conditions" only favor opponents when they do well in tournaments, particularly Pakistan. The rankings are farcical as far as Pakistan is concerned. Everything your team does is against the odds and adversity. 

Using your own logic, Pakistan should be at an extreme Disadvantage because they never played during IPL. Do you have the guts to admit that?

 

Rohit Sharma was bang average recently against quality pace bowling and seems to have hit a sweet spot in this world cup. The 2019 WC was a run fest on flat tracks and mostly an aberration for Rohit. Kohli in your team is the guy with an airtight technique to handle high class swing bowlers. 

[R!TTER]

4 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

The 2019 WC was a run fest on flat tracks and mostly an aberration for Rohit. Kohli in your team is the guy with an airtight technique to handle high class swing bowlers. 

Everyone fails when the bowl swing/seams massively, same goes for spin to an even larger extent. Chasing with scoreboard pressure is also generally harder, you can count on one hand the number of times even good teams have chased decent totals in the second innings of an ICC event, where dew doesn't play a spoilsport. Heck even our 2011 win was in part due to that slight advantage, do you remember any such recent wins by Oz/Eng/NZ/Pak chasing in a KO where the pitch got worse or much worse in second innings?

[deathmonger]

7 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

 

So, you are saying India has no home advantage. It seems "luck", "rain", "conditions" only favor opponents when they do well in tournaments, particularly Pakistan. The rankings are farcical as far as Pakistan is concerned. Everything your team does is against the odds and adversity. 

Using your own logic, Pakistan should be at an extreme Disadvantage because they never played during IPL. Do you have the guts to admit that?

 

Rohit Sharma was bang average recently against quality pace bowling and seems to have hit a sweet spot in this world cup. The 2019 WC was a run fest on flat tracks and mostly an aberration for Rohit. Kohli in your team is the guy with an airtight technique to handle high class swing bowlers. 

Rohit Sharma has more test centuries outside Asia than the entire Pakistani World Squad COMBINED.

[Sharjah-Harjah]

9 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

Rohit Sharma has more test centuries outside Asia than the entire Pakistani World Squad COMBINED.

This is not true. Share data. 

Also, it's an odd comparison given how long Rohit has been playing.
Moreover, Imam/Babar/Fakhar are fastest to 2k, 3k, 4k, and 5k runs. They already have 40 centuries in ODIs between them within 5/6 years. At this rate, they will get there as well.

[rangeelaraja]

30 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

 

So, you are saying India has no home advantage. It seems "luck", "rain", "conditions" only favor opponents when they do well in tournaments, particularly Pakistan. The rankings are farcical as far as Pakistan is concerned. Everything your team does is against the odds and adversity. 

Using your own logic, Pakistan should be at an extreme Disadvantage because they never played during IPL. Do you have the guts to admit that?

 

Rohit Sharma was bang average recently against quality pace bowling and seems to have hit a sweet spot in this world cup. The 2019 WC was a run fest on flat tracks and mostly an aberration for Rohit. Kohli in your team is the guy with an airtight technique to handle high class swing bowlers. 

 

 

You seem to have serious comprehension issues.  India has won 27 games and just lost 4 WC games across 4 world cups in  - India, Australia /NZ and England. 

 

Thats a serious record - no team comes close perhaps - if at all losing only 4 games in 4 World Cups.

 

WC pitches are generally good for batting. Thats common sense.   It is not a test match.

 

Indian conditions are not very different from Pakistan - supports spinners ( your spinners are bowling shyte ) , and accurate pacers.

 

Pak cricket team is third rate- it got shown its place in the Asia Cup which was hosted in Sri Lanka.  

 

Pak finished 4th in the Asia Cup in Lanka and then cribbing about IPL disadvantage for Pakistan and aspiring for semis.

 

Do you have the guts to admit that you are shameless and your team is shyte ?

 

Your competition is Afghanistan. 

 

Like I said Rohit Sharma is an all time great legend in ODI cricket. he doesn't need the validation of an anonymous troll supporter of a third rate cricket team like you.

 

He averages 53 in Australia over 30 innings, and 65 in England over 27 innings. 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/rohit-sharma-34102/bowling-batting-stats

 

Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Avg	BF	SR	100s	50s	0s	4s	6s
In Australia	2008-2019	30	30	5	1328	171*	53.12	1466	90.58	5	4	3	111	34
In Bangladesh	2008-2022	15	14	2	409	68	34.08	483	84.67	0	4	1	34	13
In England	2011-2022	27	27	5	1428	140	64.90	1573	90.78	7	7	2	150	32
In India	2007-2023	86	85	8	4546	264	59.03	4454	102.06	13	21	2	455	161
In Ireland	2007-2007	2	1	0	8	8	8.00	9	88.88	0	0	0	0	0
In New Zealand	2009-2019	14	13	1	437	87	36.41	599	72.95	0	4	0	28	18
In Pakistan	2008-2008	6	6	2	116	58	29.00	160	72.50	0	1	0	8	0
In South Africa	2011-2018	14	13	0	256	115	19.69	374	68.44	1	0	1	28	6
In Sri Lanka	2008-2023	32	31	4	777	124*	28.77	872	89.10	2	5	6	77	20
In U.A.E.	2018-2018	5	5	2	317	111*	105.66	339	93.51	1	2	0	25	13
In West Indies	2009-2023	18	16	5	529	86*	48.09	733	72.16	0	5	1	33	8
In Zimbabwe	2010-2013	8	8	2	359	114	59.83	442	81.22	2	1	0	22	7

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by rangeelaraja

[Sharjah-Harjah]

12 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Everyone fails when the bowl swing/seams massively, same goes for spin to an even larger extent. Chasing with scoreboard pressure is also generally harder, you can count on one hand the number of times even good teams have chased decent totals in the second innings of an ICC event, where dew doesn't play a spoilsport. Heck even our 2011 win was in part due to that slight advantage, do you remember any such recent wins by Oz/Eng/NZ/Pak chasing in a KO where the pitch got worse or much worse in second innings?

Pakistan chased 152 comfortably in WC semifinal last year vs an inform, high quality NZ bowling attack on a helpful Aussie surface.

"Zimbabar" and Rizwan completely demoralized Boult, Ferguson, Santner, Sodhi and Southee. 

Let me anticipate the excuses about to arrive:

1. T20 is not a real format. Even though Indians would go CRAZY if their team won the next T20 world cup as it is the most watched and vaunted format of 2023.
2. Some bowler was missing? 

3. Popcorn...

[Lone Wolf]

13 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

This is not true. Share data. 

Also, it's an odd comparison given how long Rohit has been playing.
Moreover, Imam/Babar/Fakhar are fastest to 2k, 3k, 4k, and 5k runs. They already have 40 centuries in ODIs between them within 5/6 years. At this rate, they will get there as well.

Yeah by playing C & D side...  Zero T20 ODI series win in Aus ..  Zero white ball series win vs Eng since 2005 too. 

Atrocious test record at home in last 10 years (UAE + Pak) 

 

Also Gill is fastest to 2k runs not Tuk Tuk Imam bhatija