India’s biggest mess up?

[singhvivek141]

Poor selection choices...as simple as that.

[MediumPacer]

ind was too reliant on conditions ,with that mentality you should lose.

[The Hound]

If Rohit had batted like he did in Lucknow vs ENG, India would've reached 275-280. 

Then you wouldn't have to panic with the new ball  & start with Shami who couldn't control the swing. 

[Frustrated]

1 minute ago, The Hound said:

If Rohit had batted like he did in Lucknow vs ENG, India would've reached 275-280. 

Then you wouldn't have to panic with the new ball  & start with Shami who couldn't control the swing. 

Was about to say this.  There was no need for Rohit to over-attack so early coz Gill had departed cheaply.    In that Maxwell over, he had already hit two boundaries. Could hv easily rotated the strike.   And he knew we were playing with a long tail.   The only logical explanation I can think of is : Pressure/Anxiety of playing a WC final in front of big home crowd can do strange things.  

[Need4Speed]

6 hours ago, srgadjon said:

The only batsman who could have got India to a good score on that pitch was Kohli. Rest don't have the ability to score run a ball or more on that pitch. Once Kohli was out, match was as good as gone 

Also if Rohit could stay longer to make his hundred…

8 times out of 10 batting first..India is losing this match against Aussies..

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

There should be investigation into player selections. Why was KL Rahul not dropped aftar dismal performances in T20. And why was SkY selected for WC. There may be conflict of interest in selections like Pak cricket team.

[nevada]

13 hours ago, Chaos said:

Our batting line has Zero left handers in top 6. Jaiswal was a automatic selection for me. We need atleast two left handers in top 6-7. It just messed up bowlers rhythm. Its like bowling to same spot for top 6, retarded selection.

Opening slots are already taken, so Jaiswal was left out. Fair enough. But with a little foresight, we could have invested in Rinku Singh or Rahul Tewatiya. Our selectors' stupid mentality of totally freezing the selection pool 1-1.5 years before the WC has to change. If a new player comes up on the radar with clutch performances and excels on a wicket where his peers have totally struggled, he should be backed no matter how close we are to a world cup.

[Need4Speed]

3 minutes ago, nevada said:

Opening slots are already taken, so Jaiswal was left out. Fair enough. But with a little foresight, we could have invested in Rinku Singh or Rahul Tewatiya. Our selectors' stupid mentality of totally freezing the selection pool 1-1.5 years before the WC has to change. If a new player comes up on the radar with clutch performances and excels on a wicket where his peers have totally struggled, he should be backed no matter how close we are to a world cup.

what TM doesnt seem to understand is..Good players win you league /bilateral matches..clutch players win you trophies..

[Nikhil_cric]

And replace the RHB's with who?  The only left hander who had developed and was beginning to perform in ODI's was Pant and he was injured.  Kishan has not set the world alight with his terrible spin play in the middle overs.   The Top 5 simply can't be blamed for this.  SKY takes the majority of the blame .  And our lack of batting depth at #7 also cost us in the end on a tough pitch.

 

Ideally you'd want 3 quality left handers in the Top 7 but we didn't lose this for that.  

[Number]

I think @Nikhil_cric pointed this out way before tournament that shallow batting line ups never win world cups.

 

2011 India had 

6- MSD, 7 -Raina, 8- Harbhajan, 9- Zaheer

 

2015 Australia had

6-Maxwell, 7-Haddin, 8-Faulkner, 9- Mitch Johnson

 

2019 England had batting till no. 9

 

2023 Aus 

 

Shallow batting line ups put top order batsmen under pressure, prevent them from playing their natural game. 

A lot of things have to go right for these kind of 5-5 teams to win the cup.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, Number said:

I think @Nikhil_cric pointed this out way before tournament that shallow batting line ups never win world cups.

 

2011 India had 

6- MSD, 7 -Raina, 8- Harbhajan, 9- Zaheer

 

2015 Australia had

6-Maxwell, 7-Haddin, 8-Faulkner, 9- Mitch Johnson

 

2019 England had batting till no. 9

 

2023 Aus 

 

Shallow batting line ups put top order batsmen under pressure, prevent them from playing their natural game. 

A lot of things have to go right for these kind of 5-5 teams to win the cup.

 

A little bit of inductive reasoning never goes amiss.  This is what the Aussies are really good at.  Unlike the rest of the world who are upto their necks with all sorts of advanced data analysis to the exclusion of almost everything else.

 

Real batting depth can only be provided by proper batters. On tough pitches,  the bowling allrounder is no better than a tailender. Look at how Jansen and Jadeja performed in the semis and finals respective on tough pitches.   Bowling all-rounders are usually inferior to specialist bowlers and you lose value there as well.   

 

Indian fans are always too worried about batting depth by looking at the batting ability at #8, #9.   But the failures of a good #6 and a competent #7 cost this team more than anything else and that is never looked at in recent years.  Jadeja is a good #8. Nothing more.   But he is probaly not among the top 4 bowlers in this country unless India are brave enough to play 3 bowlers + jadeja + batting allrounders.   If India's idea was to play the 4 best bowlers,  then we lost this World Cup on the selection of Jadeja + Ashwin + Shardul who had no business being in the squad.  SKY too but that was a selection issue not a combination issue.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Nikhil_cric

[srgadjon]

1 hour ago, Number said:

I think @Nikhil_cric pointed this out way before tournament that shallow batting line ups never win world cups.

 

2011 India had 

6- MSD, 7 -Raina, 8- Harbhajan, 9- Zaheer

 

2015 Australia had

6-Maxwell, 7-Haddin, 8-Faulkner, 9- Mitch Johnson

 

2019 England had batting till no. 9

 

2023 Aus 

 

Shallow batting line ups put top order batsmen under pressure, prevent them from playing their natural game. 

A lot of things have to go right for these kind of 5-5 teams to win the cup.

 

The big issue in Indian team was always going to be batsmen don't bowl and bowlers don't bat. In a way, we were looking at a near perfect game every game to win but that's not going to happen everytime, especially in knockout scenarios where pressure is high. You can easily have top order collapses or bowlers having off days, India didn't have a plan B for these scenarios. It's important going forward to plan for having batting depth or batsmen who can bowl.

[srgadjon]

Also I find it surprising how even SENA teams have batsmen who can bowl decent spin like Markram, Maxwell, Glen Philips, Head etc but none of the Indian batsmen have tried becoming decent spinners despite playing in Indian conditions. How come coach or management have not looked at doing this ?

[Number]

52 minutes ago, srgadjon said:

Also I find it surprising how even SENA teams have batsmen who can bowl decent spin like Markram, Maxwell, Glen Philips, Head etc but none of the Indian batsmen have tried becoming decent spinners despite playing in Indian conditions. How come coach or management have not looked at doing this ?

In India there is too much glorification of individual stats. Gill, Iyer all want 100s to their names. Nobody wants to be that utility player who doesn't find name in stats book. 

[nitinbwj]

10 minutes ago, Number said:

In India there is too much glorification of individual stats. Gill, Iyer all want 100s to their names. Nobody wants to be that utility player who doesn't find name in stats book. 

Especially that cocky Gill. His celebrations are over the top cringe even though he has done jack with the bat. He has played 1 good innings which can be called match winning.... The Gabba one when he decimated Starc. Rest is all crap. 

[Sooda]

1 hour ago, Number said:

In India there is too much glorification of individual stats. Gill, Iyer all want 100s to their names. Nobody wants to be that utility player who doesn't find name in stats book. 

Iyer hit 3 sixes on the way from 77 to 100 vs NZ... hes not been selfish

[Number]

34 minutes ago, Sooda said:

Iyer hit 3 sixes on the way from 77 to 100 vs NZ... hes not been selfish

He wasn't selfish I agree. I am talking about a general point that youngsters don't look up to be a utility player but rather a one skilled player looking to break records and generate fame.

[singhvivek141]

6 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

And replace the RHB's with who?  The only left hander who had developed and was beginning to perform in ODI's was Pant and he was injured.  Kishan has not set the world alight with his terrible spin play in the middle overs.   The Top 5 simply can't be blamed for this.  SKY takes the majority of the blame .  And our lack of batting depth at #7 also cost us in the end on a tough pitch.

 

Ideally you'd want 3 quality left handers in the Top 7 but we didn't lose this for that.  

We are repeating the same mistake with SKY, which we did with Deepak Hooda.

SKY is a top4 (at max 5) batter, so does Hooda. We tried to use them as our no 6/7 in ODI WC/T20 WC...both failed in their respective roles.

 

Considering Hardik's iffy fitness, it's time now to select a proper no6 & no 7 batter for ODI & T20. Rinku Singh, Abhinav Manohar, Jitesh Sharma, Raj Bawa type batters who have played all their life at lower middle order and knows how to rotate strike with the tail. 

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, Number said:

In India there is too much glorification of individual stats. Gill, Iyer all want 100s to their names. Nobody wants to be that utility player who doesn't find name in stats book. 

Yesterday I was listening to one discussion on Youtube, where the host was saying that Kohli achieved milestone of max runs in WC, Shami achieved max wickets...but if Rohit Sharma will look back at this WC, he will think what milestone did he achieved after playing such aggressive brand of cricket...he didn't won trophy, nor got any centuries/big scores...all he got is "respect"...that's all.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

3 hours ago, srgadjon said:

Also I find it surprising how even SENA teams have batsmen who can bowl decent spin like Markram, Maxwell, Glen Philips, Head etc but none of the Indian batsmen have tried becoming decent spinners despite playing in Indian conditions. How come coach or management have not looked at doing this ?

Because, its not their priority. DK openly said on cricbuzz that with 2 new ball rule batters can't spend their time to bowl which would be a waste of time. Instead we should ask bowlers to do batting practice & learn how to bat. 

 

On top of it we are including this stupid rule of Impact player...which effectively eliminates the need of allrounder.