Is Bihar a lost cause ?

[mishra]

On 12/18/2023 at 9:07 AM, cowboysfan said:

choose for what? there is a reason Gulf countries have seen tremendous amount of migrant workers from Bihar and UP.

Have you visited UP recently?

Just fyi it takes 6-7 hrs from Delhi to Lucknow by Car.

People and businesses prefer Noida and GN to live and setup busineses as it better than Delhi.

UP doesnt have advantage of having a port but I can bet, they will earn forex as by next 10 years a Holy Quad (Ayodhya Mathura Kashi Prayag) tempting Hindus to go on religious pilgrimmage from all across the world and bringing massive tourist income. Vising Agara is old now

Fact is UP is on verge of take off and infra/law and order  is either superior or comparable then any state in India but it will be guaranteed better in coming years. I am saying this because I have seen it.

 

 

[mishra]

On 12/21/2023 at 9:41 AM, Nikhil_cric said:

Since Uttar Pradesh is now the land of the midnight sun, I suppose there's no need for tax revenue from Maharashtra , SI and other states to flow into Uttar Pradesh anymore. Im sure they can manage fairly well without it now.

UP ke oopar Bhagvaan Ram Krishna shivaji aur Maa Gangaa ka haath thaa. Mujhe vishwaas hai ki Modijio Yogiji ki tapashya se phir se UP vaalon ko ashirvaad milega.

[randomGuy]

12 hours ago, mishra said:

Have you visited UP recently?

Just fyi it takes 6-7 hrs from Delhi to Lucknow by Car.

People and businesses prefer Noida and GN to live and setup busineses as it better than Delhi.

UP doesnt have advantage of having a port but I can bet, they will earn forex as by next 10 years a Holy Quad (Ayodhya Mathura Kashi Prayag) tempting Hindus to go on religious pilgrimmage from all across the world and bringing massive tourist income. Vising Agara is old now

Fact is UP is on verge of take off and infra/law and order  is either superior or comparable then any state in India but it will be guaranteed better in coming years. I am saying this because I have seen it.

 

 

UP 1. Cultural hub of India 2. Superior new age infra, 3. Superior demographics. 4. Superior leadership, law n order. 5. Superior morals and work ethic.

 

No wonder jealous people will pretend ignorance.

[Nikhil_cric]

18 hours ago, mishra said:

UP ke oopar Bhagvaan Ram Krishna shivaji aur Maa Gangaa ka haath thaa. Mujhe vishwaas hai ki Modijio Yogiji ki tapashya se phir se UP vaalon ko ashirvaad milega.

Im really glad to hear this. With Uttar Pradesh becoming the tourism and industrial hub of India , there is legitimate hope for the older cities such as Mumbai and Bangalore since we can expect reverse migration from these cities to the future metropolitan cities of India like Kanpur and Lucknow .

 

 

[ravishingravi]

22 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Im really glad to hear this. With Uttar Pradesh becoming the tourism and industrial hub of India , there is legitimate hope for the older cities such as Mumbai and Bangalore since we can expect reverse migration from these cities to the future metropolitan cities of India like Kanpur and Lucknow .

 

 

 

Still a long way away. I think 5-7 years we could see the first movements. UP is scaling up fast but lot still needs to be done. The economy could double easily in next 3-5 years.

[Trichromatic]

9 hours ago, randomGuy said:

UP 1. Cultural hub of India 2. Superior new age infra, 3. Superior demographics. 4. Superior leadership, law n order. 5. Superior morals and work ethic.

 

No wonder jealous people will pretend ignorance.

 

Pakistan with 24 cr population has 340 billion USD GDP. 

 

UP with 24 cr population has less than 250 billion USD GDP.

 

Still a long way to catch up even with failed state like Pakistan.

[coffee_rules]

18 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Pakistan with 24 cr population has 340 billion USD GDP. 

 

UP with 24 cr population has less than 250 billion USD GDP.

 

Still a long way to catch up even with failed state like Pakistan.

Troll post. Pakistan collects its own taxes and has its own defense establishment 

[mishra]

8 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Im really glad to hear this. With Uttar Pradesh becoming the tourism and industrial hub of India , there is legitimate hope for the older cities such as Mumbai and Bangalore since we can expect reverse migration from these cities to the future metropolitan cities of India like Kanpur and Lucknow .

 

 

Reverse migration never happens. Delhites know its better in Noida and GN but still there is hesitation to make the moove. It’s matter of confidence too.  I will say atleast a decade before net migration from UP to other states starts balancing 

[mishra]

5 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Troll post. Pakistan collects its own taxes and has its own defense establishment 

Hehe he. UP isn’t selling its parks airports roads to Chinese or American or Saudis to repay loan interest 

[Trichromatic]

4 hours ago, mishra said:

Hehe he. UP isn’t selling its parks airports roads to Chinese or American or Saudis to repay loan interest 

 

That's because UP is able to use income generated from other states so that people can flex on internet that how the state is already superior and others are jealous.

 

 

 

Nothing wrong with the fact that most of the income generated by govt from other states goes to fund poor states like UP and Bihar and yet state is far behind levels of even Pakistan, but if people start bragging about it now, then what will happen when it reaches levels of Pakistan?

[randomGuy]

The guy seems bent to suggest that UP is living on kherat....

 

The fact is that UP has a growing sustainable GDP... state debt to GDP ratio comfortable and lower than Kerala, AP and a lot of other states

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbesindia.com/amp/article/explainers/debt-to-gdp-ratio-indian-states/88469/1

 

cities like Noida Gr Noida Ghaziabad, better planned and developed than almost every Indian city...Road, highways, cities, law and order, it is obvious that the state has seen significant improvement.

 

@coffee_rules @mishra @ravishingravi

 

But I strongly feel we are barking up the wrong tree...the real problem in India is air pollution, cutting across regions. UP also has bad air pollution .....GDP, skyscrapers, jobs, highways etc. are all good and necessary but clean air should be a necessity....in India a big public campaign is needed for this...Modi, Rahul Gandhi kejriwal mamta should be running for elections on clean air goals and outcomes....I feel air pollution is the biggest issue in India.. rest all issues come next...

[Trichromatic]

48 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

The guy seems bent to suggest that UP is living on kherat....

 

The fact is that UP has a growing sustainable GDP... state debt to GDP ratio comfortable and lower than Kerala, AP and a lot of other states

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbesindia.com/amp/article/explainers/debt-to-gdp-ratio-indian-states/88469/1

 

cities like Noida Gr Noida Ghaziabad, better planned and developed than almost every Indian city...Road, highways, cities, law and order, it is obvious that the state has seen significant improvement.

 

 

Debt to GDP% for UP is 32% for kerala 33% and AP 36%.

 

When taxes collected from other states are given to UP, it's not counted as debt.

 

For ex - UP has Rs 5,70,866 crore revenue reciepts (excluding borrowings) for UP, 48% is generated by the state and 52% comes from the centre. 

 

https://prsindia.org/budgets/states/uttar-pradesh-budget-analysis-2023-24

 

UP got 17% of total taxes and duties generated by centre.

 

https://www.indiabudget.gov.in/doc/rec/annex4.pdf

 

While it generates 10% for centre

 

https://gstcouncil.gov.in/sites/default/files/news-ticker/PDF document.pdf

 

Compare that to Kerala which generated 72% of it's revenue from state resources and only 28% from centre.

 

https://prsindia.org/budgets/states/kerala-budget-analysis-2023-24

 

States contributes 4.7% to centre and gets 1.9%.

 

Kerala borrowed around 83k cr.

 

If kerala got same share as their tax contribution, they would have to borrow 28k cr only instead of 83k cr. If Kerala got 1.7 times of their contribution just like UP does, then borrowings would be 0.

 

On the other hand UP borrowed 94k cr. If they had got same share as they contribute, their borrowing would have gone up to 2.2 lakhs cr. If they got 40% of their contribution just like how Kerala does, then borrowings would go upto 3.3 lakhs cr.

 

All this while GDP of UP is just 2 times that of Kerala with population 1/7th of UP.

[Trichromatic]

@randomGuy

 

Pakistan with population of 24 cr and GDP of 340 billion.

Bangladesh with population of 17 cr and GDP of 400 billion.

 

UP with population of 24 cr and GDP of 250 billion.

Bihar with population of 14 cr and GDP 100 billion.

 

All this means that this region is economically weaker than both regions on east (BD) and west (Pak).

 

Administrative unit	GSP (Billions USD)	GSP per capita (USD)
Punjab	225	2,003
Sindh	88	1,997
Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (including FATA)	38	1,070
Balochistan	20	1,621
Azad Jammu and Kashmir	5	1,512[3]
Islamabad (ICT)	5	2,500
Gilgit-Baltistan	2.5	1,748
Pakistan (GDP)	383 billion[4][1]	$1,658[5

 

 

Per capita GDP of UP (1300 USD) and Bihar (916 US) is comparable to poorest regions of Pakistan. One major difference is that those provinces don't have support of states like Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Karnataka, AP, Telangana, Maharashtra to fuel their economic growth and recover from economic slowdown during economic slump.

 

[ravishingravi]

5 hours ago, randomGuy said:

The guy seems bent to suggest that UP is living on kherat....

 

The fact is that UP has a growing sustainable GDP... state debt to GDP ratio comfortable and lower than Kerala, AP and a lot of other states

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbesindia.com/amp/article/explainers/debt-to-gdp-ratio-indian-states/88469/1

 

cities like Noida Gr Noida Ghaziabad, better planned and developed than almost every Indian city...Road, highways, cities, law and order, it is obvious that the state has seen significant improvement.

 

@coffee_rules @mishra @ravishingravi

 

But I strongly feel we are barking up the wrong tree...the real problem in India is air pollution, cutting across regions. UP also has bad air pollution .....GDP, skyscrapers, jobs, highways etc. are all good and necessary but clean air should be a necessity....in India a big public campaign is needed for this...Modi, Rahul Gandhi kejriwal mamta should be running for elections on clean air goals and outcomes....I feel air pollution is the biggest issue in India.. rest all issues come next...

 

Absolutely agree. More than GDP it is the quality of that GDP that matters. We can give up 1-2% of GDP to ensure better balance.

[randomGuy]

1 hour ago, ravishingravi said:

 

Absolutely agree. More than GDP it is the quality of that GDP that matters. We can give up 1-2% of GDP to ensure better balance.

Also the issue with this guy @Trichromatic is that he doesn't use his mind enough ( I am sorry) , just uses random numbers to prove his point...

 

For ex. He suggests UP gets kheraat from centre, whereas the fact is that if anything,  the centre hasn't done enough for UP for the honest , talented, affordable manpower which the state has provided. It is actually states like Delhi who get most of the benefits where most centre government departments and employees are based , get to spend their salaries, boosting the state GDP.

 

In a UP person there is 1. No Regional hatred 2. No Linguistic insecurity / hatred, 3. Emphasis on education 4. No religious supremacy and much tolerance in majority community 5. Does a UP person indulge in crime/create nuisance for outsiders or while residing in UP?  --Absolutely not, goes about his business, creates value where ever he lives. 6. Is high fertility rate any longer a problem? Absolutely not, it has come down, the youngsters of UP will be a boon for the working age population of the country in decades to come.

 

 

So, today it is actually the Hindi heartland which is the most sorted region of the country....and I am totally unbiased person here with zero family connections to UP..

 

Unfortunately people like 

@Trichromatic (guys like @cowboysfan are actually hopeless) do not see the things as they are. Blinded by their own biases etc. and trying to confirm them from here and there.

[ravishingravi]

 

[ravishingravi]

Del

Edited December 29, 2023 by ravishingravi

[mishra]

9 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

That's because UP is able to use income generated from other states so that people can flex on internet that how the state is already superior and others are jealous.

 

 

 

Nothing wrong with the fact that most of the income generated by govt from other states goes to fund poor states like UP and Bihar and yet state is far behind levels of even Pakistan, but if people start bragging about it now, then what will happen when it reaches levels of Pakistan?

@TrichromaticThis arguement is flawed.

Proportinally revenue by Direct tax vs indirect tax is same, Assuming inderct taxes is directly proportional to population, offcourse UP is paying huge amount to Government purse.

Secondly Headoffice location of business , specially corporates is where tax revenue is collected from. Since most banks, and businesses have head office in Mumbai,Delhi, Chennai, Kolkata, Banglore,Hyderbad so thats where they are registering tax paid location.

 

States like UP Bihar MP Rajasthan jharkhand only have human capital. They do not have luxury of having big cities and government is trying to build some cities in these states similar to Banglore Pune Hyderbad.

 

Investment in North East is a must as hilly areas require several times more money to build similar infra compared to plains and plateu.

 

PS: Take it as given that Government and policy planners are definitely more knowledgeable, more intelligent and have better understanding then average Reporter or blogger or analyst who is only in that trade because he was privelged to study in a English medium school, but factually, they werent smart/intelligent/hardworking enough to enroll "even into a professional course". Exception exist due to poverty and background  but that is rarilty when you come from privileged background

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by mishra

[mishra]

8 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

@randomGuy

 

Pakistan with population of 24 cr and GDP of 340 billion.

Bangladesh with population of 17 cr and GDP of 400 billion.

 

UP with population of 24 cr and GDP of 250 billion.

Bihar with population of 14 cr and GDP 100 billion.

 

All this means that this region is economically weaker than both regions on east (BD) and west (Pak).

 

Administrative unit	GSP (Billions USD)	GSP per capita (USD)
Punjab	225	2,003
Sindh	88	1,997
Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (including FATA)	38	1,070
Balochistan	20	1,621
Azad Jammu and Kashmir	5	1,512[3]
Islamabad (ICT)	5	2,500
Gilgit-Baltistan	2.5	1,748
Pakistan (GDP)	383 billion[4][1]	$1,658[5

 

 

Per capita GDP of UP (1300 USD) and Bihar (916 US) is comparable to poorest regions of Pakistan. One major difference is that those provinces don't have support of states like Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Karnataka, AP, Telangana, Maharashtra to fuel their economic growth and recover from economic slowdown during economic slump.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_government_budget_per_capita

 

See where India stands in the list. Now compare the infra , life expectency, Services, Governance, Facilities, defense, geopolitical weight of India vis a vis other nations in similar bracket. BTW, Pakistan was competing us when India was under Congress rule

 

And then compare, where Bihar stands in terms of infra , life expectency, Services, Governance, Facilities,geopolitical/economic weight vis a vis various  States India

Edited December 29, 2023 by mishra

[Lone Wolf]

Western UP is pretty decent actually...  Yes quality & living standards are still not quite there but there is hope. 

Eastern UP is a shi*hole and has no hope. 

Better option will be to divide the state.  Make administration easier & spend considerable resources into Western UP.  Potential is there.