When will this Shardul Thakur experiment end?

[Malcolm Merlyn]

This experiment of playing a rubbish bowler because he can bat a bit has to stop.

 

Thakur is a poor bowler and is selected on the basis of he can bat a bit.

 

This kind of selection isn't helping the team. This is not U19 cricket where the players will learn to do new stuff.

 

Dravid has been a horrendous coach.

 

And the Jay Shah led BCCI wont sack him. Because

 

1. This is Make in India time. So no foreign coaches. No matter the fact that we haven't won a ICC trophy under an Indian coach.

 

2. They don't want any political issues in Karnataka.

[Majestic]

It's not an experiment. It's the only option we have.

 

Everyone is aware of Ashwin's poor record overseas outside Asia and WI whether it's with bat or bowl. 

 

India needs a genuine all rounder at 7 who can bat equally well as bowl or perhaps bat better than bowl.

 

Jadeja and Sundar are those options. We can't afford Ashwin and Shardul both. Also, a pretty poor debut from Prasidh who was probably the worst bowler of the game.

 

Batting is in transition too with Rohit in decline and Gill, Iyer failing to establish themselves in this format. Rahul has probably done enough to be rated as one of the best batsman in the team and that itself tells you how bad this team is.

[Adamant]

Its one of the most successful experiment we ever did.

 

Won us tests in Gabba, Oval.

Took a 7 fer in SA last time and is a batter batsman in SENA than Ashwin

[putrevus]

When will Bumrah win matches on his own before we talk about Thakur.

[rollingstoned]

He stays fit by not getting injured and fights it out regardless of role and limitations. It's not his fault that there are no better options to keep him out. Character wise the team would go a lot further with more players with his attitude and spirit.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

If you don't have a pace bowling AR, you don't have a pace bowling AR. That's it.

You cannot play a poor bowler with the expectation that he may score a few runs once in a while.

That's not how test cricket is played.

Bowlers win you test matches. You needed 4 fast bowlers who could do a job. You picked Shardul as one of them.

Thats pathetic.


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[Malcolm Merlyn]

He stays fit by not getting injured and fights it out regardless of role and limitations. It's not his fault that there are no better options to keep him out. Character wise the team would go a lot further with more players with his attitude and spirit.

Its the team management's fault that they think he can do a job in tests regularly.


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[rollingstoned]

Just now, Malcolm Merlyn said:

Its the team management's fault that they think he can do a job in tests regularly.


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They only turned to him when their Pandya investment came a cropper. He took whatever chances he had and helped us win important tests and series abroad. 

[Frustrated]

21 minutes ago, putrevus said:

When will Bumrah win matches on his own before we talk about Thakur.

Earlier I had doubts.   But now I m convinced that Bumrah is not a big match player in any format.   Won't call him a 'choker' exactly. That sounds a little harsh.  But the bitter reality is that he is NOT going to win us any big game of crucial tournments unless there is significant contribution from other bowlers and/or batters.  There is big enough sample size to draw that conclusion.   

Edited December 28, 2023 by Frustrated

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

If you don't have a pace bowling AR, you don't have a pace bowling AR. That's it.

You cannot play a poor bowler with the expectation that he may score a few runs once in a while.

That's not how test cricket is played.

Bowlers win you test matches. You needed 4 fast bowlers who could do a job. You picked Shardul as one of them.

Thats pathetic.


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So he has to perform every match for him to be in th team. 
 

He did very well in the chances he has gotten so far.

Is he a must in every match then answer is no but let’s not make him a scapegoat for this team’s failures.

 

[nevada]

5 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

If you don't have a pace bowling AR, you don't have a pace bowling AR. That's it.

You cannot play a poor bowler with the expectation that he may score a few runs once in a while.

That's not how test cricket is played.

Bowlers win you test matches. You needed 4 fast bowlers who could do a job. You picked Shardul as one of them.

Thats pathetic.


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It's been nearly 3 years since his Australia heroics. His bowling was somewhat okay then, but has declined badly now. It's time to stop picking him for internationals unless it's a B or C team playing against Zimbabwe or in the Asian games/ SAARC games.

[bowl_out]

The least of our problems. We need four bowlers to perform. Bumrah, Prasidh and Ashwin were free loaders in this match. If your top four bowlers do their job, Shardul should only be seen a fifth bowling option

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

Earlier I had doubts.   But now I m convinced that Bumrah is not a big match player in any format.   Won't call him a 'choker' exactly. That sounds a little harsh.  But the bitter reality is that he is NOT going to win us any big game of crucial tournments unless there is significant contribution from other bowlers and/or batters.  There is big enough sample size to draw that conclusion.   

Bumrah has been stinking up under pressure for a long time.Batting failures of batsmen gave him excuses to stink and not getting any blame.

[sensible-indian]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

It's not an experiment. It's the only option we have.

 

Everyone is aware of Ashwin's poor record overseas outside Asia and WI whether it's with bat or bowl. 

 

India needs a genuine all rounder at 7 who can bat equally well as bowl or perhaps bat better than bowl.

 

Jadeja and Sundar are those options. We can't afford Ashwin and Shardul both. Also, a pretty poor debut from Prasidh who was probably the worst bowler of the game.

 

Batting is in transition too with Rohit in decline and Gill, Iyer failing to establish themselves in this format. Rahul has probably done enough to be rated as one of the best batsman in the team and that itself tells you how bad this team is.

WIth all due respect sir, this beautiful analysis is WHAT is everything is wrong with Indian cricket.

 

Guys remember how I talked about how cricket is being run based on PERCEPTION in the match thread.

 

This post right here is the best example of how perception clouds your judgement and makes you think the wrong decision is the right decision and keep making the same mistake over and over again.

 

Jaise fans. Waise management.

[rollingstoned]

Just now, sensible-indian said:

WIth all due respect sir, this beautiful analysis is WHAT is everything is wrong with Indian cricket.

 

Guys remember how I talked about how cricket is being run based on PERCEPTION in the match thread.

 

This post right here is the best example of how perception clouds your judgement and makes you think the wrong decision is the right decision and keep making the same mistake over and over again.

 

Jaise fans. Waise management.

How would you fill the pace A/R slot overseas so the team is balanced? Just asking out of curiosity not because I disagree with you.

[sensible-indian]

2 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

The least of our problems. We need four bowlers to perform. Bumrah, Prasidh and Ashwin were free loaders in this match. If your top four bowlers do their job, Shardul should only be seen a fifth bowling option

Another gem. Irony is Shardul was used as the 3rd seamer here with Prasidh being the 4th seamer and they promptly lost us this test while the 5th bowler actually bowled well and gave us much needed control.

 

It's like some of our fans are in some alternate reality.

 

Dunno what but been this way for the last 2 years.

[AKane]

Bumrah's performance here on paper looks good - 4 wickets and all.

 

Look a little more carefully and 2 wickets are 10 and 11  with total at or near 400.

 

Top scorers who score > 50 Elgar, Jansen, Bedingham and Bumrah nowhere to be found.

 

From his second wicket at score 113 to 3rd of Rabada at 392 - Bumrah did nothing. Mind you this is the guy who gets new ball and all.

[sensible-indian]

20 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

How would you fill the pace A/R slot overseas so the team is balanced? Just asking out of curiosity not because I disagree with you.

We don't since we don't have the options.

 

1. We won 2 series in Aus with a 4 bowler attack (for most part). The toughest place in the world to win a series other than India.

 

2. Reason? The 4 bowler attack literally forced us to be disciplined with our bowling choices (like using spinner to hold one end up and blast pacers from the other end). And if pacers are doing great, they can bowl in tandem anyways.

 

3. When we used 5 bowlers there, we used 2 spinners, both of whom actually saved our asses in different tests in the 2020 series. Playing them may NOT be possible in a place like SA but we missed that trick in Eng and lost a winnable championship.

 

4. Picking 5 bowlers is ONE thing but knowing how to use them is another. 5th bowler is someone who will ONLY bowl a few overs to give breather and be impactful with the bat. When you pick 4 seamers and 1 spinner, you make the spinner the 4th bowler and the 5th bowler to be a pacer (who can bat).

 

Example:

 

a) Nathan Lyon being used by Aus (as a 4th bowler) in pitches that have very little for spin.

 

b) While Ashwin actually bowled pretty well in this test, he is a bad 5th bowler and a much better 4th bowler. These mini spells are the most useless way to use him.

 

c) Jaddu is a FAR better 5th bowler (and he can be a 4th bowler too if he is in form). And can bat better in general.

 

Irony is that if we HAD actually gone with 4 bowlers in this test (say not picking Prasidh or Shardul), the game would have been much closer. We would have still lost but our limitations would have forced us to play better.

Edited December 28, 2023 by sensible-indian

[AKane]

17 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

How would you fill the pace A/R slot overseas so the team is balanced? Just asking out of curiosity not because I disagree with you.

Its not that easy to play with 4 fast bowlers. Everyone looks at Roberts, Holding, Croft and Garner and thinks throw in any 4 bowlers and it will work. It will not.

 

Most teams go with 3 pace bowlers.  Even SA here - Coetzee was a passenger. Aus plays with Starc, Cummins, Hazelwood or they played Lee, McGrath, Gillespie.

 

We don't have the bowlers to make the pace quartet work.

 

Take 3 pace bowlers and play Kuldeep who turns the ball a lot more than Ashwin.

[express bowling]

Batting till 7 should suffice if good batsmen are picked.

 

Just pick your best 4 bowlers and make them practice batting.

 

No point picking Shardul or other bits snd pieces cricketers like him.