Batsmen of previous generation who would have scored 1000 runs against this attack

[Trichromatic]

Heard this argument a lot that how batsmen of previous generation were so good that they would have beaten pulp out of such mediocre spinners while current generation is struggling against average spinners. 

 

2006 v England - Bowled out for 100 runs.

 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/fans-support-tendulkar-s-decision-not-to-tour-west-indies/story-gx8XDf4bRJUS2OBlY5ZKMP.html

 

Bamboozled by Udal

 

2005 v Pakistan

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/pakistan-tour-of-india-2004-05-61525/india-vs-pakistan-3rd-test-64127/full-scorecard

 

Kaneria, Afridi and Arshan Khan destroyed greats on flat pitch where Pakistan has scored 261/2.

 

Conceded a lead of 121 in first inning.

 

2000 v SA

100 overs 250 runs v Nicky Boje

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/south-africa-tour-of-india-1999-00-61857/india-vs-south-africa-2nd-test-63871/full-scorecard

 

Does anyone remeber how an off spinner named Gavin Robertson was allowed to dominate Indian batsmen in 1999?https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-tour-of-india-1997-98-61431/india-vs-australia-3rd-test-63796/full-scorecard

 

 

 

 

[Trichromatic]

Ashley Giles 5-fer

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2001-02-61791/india-vs-england-2nd-test-63962/full-scorecard

 

 

[Trichromatic]

Json Kreza 12 wickets in the match

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-tour-of-india-2008-09-345666/india-vs-australia-4th-test-345672/full-scorecard

[Vijy]

Just now, Trichromatic said:

Heard this argument a lot that how batsmen of previous generation were so good that they would have beaten pulp out of such mediocre spinners while current generation is struggling against average spinners. 

 

2006 v England - Bowled out for 100 runs.

 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/fans-support-tendulkar-s-decision-not-to-tour-west-indies/story-gx8XDf4bRJUS2OBlY5ZKMP.html

 

Bamboozled by Udal

 

2005 v Pakistan

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/pakistan-tour-of-india-2004-05-61525/india-vs-pakistan-3rd-test-64127/full-scorecard

 

Kaneria, Afridi and Arshan Khan destroyed greats on flat pitch where Pakistan has scored 261/2.

 

Conceded a lead of 121 in first inning.

 

2000 v SA

100 overs 250 runs v Nicky Boje

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/south-africa-tour-of-india-1999-00-61857/india-vs-south-africa-2nd-test-63871/full-scorecard

 

Does anyone remeber how an off spinner named Gavin Robertson was allowed to dominate Indian batsmen in 1999?https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-tour-of-india-1997-98-61431/india-vs-australia-3rd-test-63796/full-scorecard

 

 

 

 

Udal and Robertson were fairly bad; Boje, Afridi and Arshad Khan were better than the current crop of spinners played by Eng or even Kuhnemann; Kaneria was much better than this bunch.

 

Moreover, cherry picking some *isolated* examples ignores the fact that bowlers of the caliber of murali and warne did poorly in Ind over their entire careers (larger sample sizes) compared to their overall records. If you play this current bunch vs Murali and Warne, they would easily average <15.

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Json Kreza 12 wickets in the match

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-tour-of-india-2008-09-345666/india-vs-australia-4th-test-345672/full-scorecard

krejza was good for indian conditions. had 1 bad test at home vs strong SA lineup and got removed.

 

he was better than ajaz patel, who took a 10-fer against the current gen.

[Gambit]

Exceptions don’t prove the rule. Similar lists can be made for the Australian team which probably had the best players of pace bowling but ended up giving 6fers to Agarkar, Harminson, etc.

[Vijy]

10 minutes ago, Gambit said:

Exceptions don’t prove the rule. Similar lists can be made for the Australian team which probably had the best players of pace bowling but ended up giving 6fers to Agarkar, Harminson, etc.

indeed, one can list sir aggy, jermain lawson, caddick (who was quite poor overseas), etc.

[Gambit]

8 minutes ago, Vijy said:

indeed, one can list sir aggy, jermain lawson, caddick (who was quite poor overseas), etc.

Yup. Other stalwarts include Alex Tudor, Dwayne Bravo, Vasbert Drakes etc.

[sensible-indian]

Both points raised in this thread are true imho.

 

Yesteryear players were amazing players of spin.

 

But in a pressure situation in the 3rd or 4th innings, they would implode against even no name spinners.

 

But they were rarely tested because pitches in 00s were very flat so they always scored lots in the first innings.

 

Those batsmen were the greatest players of spin ever...but pit them against our spin trio (prime versions) in the 3rd or 4th innings on non flatties...and their aura of invicinciblity against spinners would get shattered.

Edited February 25 by sensible-indian

[sensible-indian]

The main reason why home pitches in 00s were so flat was because the batsmen and seniors preferred that.

 

And many home series ran close.

Edited February 25 by sensible-indian

[vvvslaxman]

These are one off scenarios lol INdia took down SHane warne, Murali, Herath who are some sort of legends. I can't think of these guys survive against them with that frontfoot plonking.

[vvvslaxman]

Laxman used to flick the ball through midwicket against the turn. I can remember atleast a couple of knocks by Laxman which was very difficult to bat at. One at MUmbai vs Australia. other one at Chennai 4th innings vs Australia. THen Ganguly's 98 in Srilanka. 

[Chaos]

8 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Heard this argument a lot that how batsmen of previous generation were so good that they would have beaten pulp out of such mediocre spinners while current generation is struggling against average spinners. 

 

2006 v England - Bowled out for 100 runs.

 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/fans-support-tendulkar-s-decision-not-to-tour-west-indies/story-gx8XDf4bRJUS2OBlY5ZKMP.html

 

Bamboozled by Udal

 

2005 v Pakistan

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/pakistan-tour-of-india-2004-05-61525/india-vs-pakistan-3rd-test-64127/full-scorecard

 

Kaneria, Afridi and Arshan Khan destroyed greats on flat pitch where Pakistan has scored 261/2.

 

Conceded a lead of 121 in first inning.

 

2000 v SA

100 overs 250 runs v Nicky Boje

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/south-africa-tour-of-india-1999-00-61857/india-vs-south-africa-2nd-test-63871/full-scorecard

 

Does anyone remeber how an off spinner named Gavin Robertson was allowed to dominate Indian batsmen in 1999?https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-tour-of-india-1997-98-61431/india-vs-australia-3rd-test-63796/full-scorecard

 

 

 

 

damn kumble bowled 70 overs first unnings. He was a champ for sure. God imagine gary, cullinan and kallis. They will bore the hell out of u

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

damn kumble bowled 70 overs first unnings. He was a champ for sure. God imagine gary, cullinan and kallis. They will bore the hell out of u

kumble and murali could take on bowling loads that would make modern bowlers shiver in fear.

[Kron]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

damn kumble bowled 70 overs first unnings. He was a champ for sure. God imagine gary, cullinan and kallis. They will bore the hell out of u

yea kalis is very boring. 

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, Kron said:

yea kalis is very boring. 

kirsten even more so

[BacktoCricaddict]

Not sure if 2017 is yester enough, but Steve O'Keefe ran through India's batting like a hot knife through butter.

 

Very often, India's batsmen have made rookie/part-time spinners look like ATGs. I remember Matthews. I think it's complacency and lack of preparation because, like someone said, good spinners like Warne have not been as successful.

[Trichromatic]

11 hours ago, Vijy said:

Udal and Robertson were fairly bad; Boje, Afridi and Arshad Khan were better than the current crop of spinners played by Eng or even Kuhnemann; Kaneria was much better than this bunch.

 

Moreover, cherry picking some *isolated* examples ignores the fact that bowlers of the caliber of murali and warne did poorly in Ind over their entire careers (larger sample sizes) compared to their overall records. If you play this current bunch vs Murali and Warne, they would easily average <15.

 

It looks cherry picking and people can cite Murali/Warne, but India could hardly dominate home series in 2000s with that line up. At best they would go unbeaten and batting was also one of the reason.

 

It's not like Murali/Warne played all matches with all teams.

 

It was worse outside India.

[Vijy]

3 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

It looks cherry picking and people can cite Murali/Warne, but India could hardly dominate home series in 2000s with that line up. At best they would go unbeaten and batting was also one of the reason.

 

It's not like Murali/Warne played all matches with all teams.

 

It was worse outside India.

well, they couldn't dominate because of two reasons: (1) bowling was relatively weak (bowling ultimately wins matches); (2) pitches in 2000s were relatively flatter, although they still had some turn.

 

As for "outside india", we are referring strictly to performances in india vs spin in this thread. no need for tangents.

[Gollum]

In his 24 years long career, Sachin never had one series where he scored 500+, and he is the GOAT. He had a lot of strengths, my all time favorite....had to point out this stat just to show that it is bloody tough to score that many in a series, no matter how weak the bowling or how flat the pitch.