Are we a non-innovative or non-inventive Cricket nation ?

[New guy]

16 hours ago, cpct said:

Indian cricket team is non innovative because we worship textbook style or technically perfect cricketers like Sachin Kohli or Dravid. Rather than youth should try to make their role model like ABD or Buttler etc.

Sachin in his youth was a radical, opening batsmen attacking was unheard of and he was very attacking in tests as well instead of being defensive. Which is why he gained such a fan following which Dravid never did. He has all the shots in the book and had the highest strike rate of an opener by a long distance, no one even came close as an opener.

[MediumPacer]

For that you need exceptional talent,we don't have many.

[Gollum]

57 minutes ago, New guy said:

Sachin in his youth was a radical, opening batsmen attacking was unheard of and he was very attacking in tests as well instead of being defensive. Which is why he gained such a fan following which Dravid never did. He has all the shots in the book and had the highest strike rate of an opener by a long distance, no one even came close as an opener.

Sachin had 3 different kinds of sweeps, one of them played so fine that I have never seen another batsman try. Then at an old age he developed that ramp over keeper, he did that to 150 kph pacers. He also had crazy innovation in bowling. Kids these days have no idea about the kind of magician Sachin was, perhaps the only true all round genius of the game after Sir Garfield Sobers.

Edited June 19, 2024 by Gollum

[rollingstoned]

https://www.wisden.com/cricket-news/was-coached-to-be-a-test-player-dravid-on-initial-odi-struggles

 

I wouldn't be too hard on Dravid either tbh. 

[Gollum]

Our fans can be cruel when players try innovation. When SKY comes up some new shot or when Ashwin tries something new, and they fail (expected), they get mercilessly trolled. To make leaps in innovation you have to be prepared to see lows/failures.....whether it is academics or sports, Indians are unforgiving towards mavericks. 

 

Pant, Jaiswal have that fearless spirit and aren't afraid of going against the grain, but when their daring attempts don't come to fruit you can check the reaction on ICF. Jaiswal was a 6 hitting machine against the bazballers earlier this year, when he hit Anderson for 3 consecutive 6s and nullified him for rest of the series, some ICFers weren't happy with his temperament....Jaiswal scored 700+ in that series, a feat many GOAT contenders haven't come close to achieving. Over time our system will turn these Pants, Jaiswals, Kuldeeps and Mayanks into safety first, boring players.

Edited June 19, 2024 by Gollum

[diga]

40 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Our fans can be cruel when players try innovation. When SKY comes up some new shot or when Ashwin tries something new, and they fail (expected), they get mercilessly trolled. To make leaps in innovation you have to be prepared to see lows/failures.....whether it is academics or sports, Indians are unforgiving towards mavericks. 

 

Pant, Jaiswal have that fearless spirit and aren't afraid of going against the grain, but when their daring attempts don't come to fruit you can check the reaction on ICF. Jaiswal was a 6 hitting machine against the bazballers earlier this year, when he hit Anderson for 3 consecutive 6s and nullified him for rest of the series, some ICFers weren't happy with his temperament....Jaiswal scored 700+ in that series, a feat many GOAT contenders haven't come close to achieving. Over time our system will turn these Pants, Jaiswals, Kuldeeps and Mayanks into safety first, boring players.

Jaiswal only tried that after he had crossed 150... and that too in the third test of the series.  For me Sehwag was the first to come out of the mould of conventional thinking and he would set the tone from ball one of the first match of a series. 

Rest of the points I concur

[Sandz]

In response to OP, yes to both. We are not innovative at all, we are not leaders but followers and copycats, in almost everything, not just cricket.

 

As a nation we are too hung up on religion and caste and class that takes up the entire bandwidth and nothing left in the tank for research or innovation or pioneering. 
 

And I don’t see it changing in donkeys years.

[neel roy]

16 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Bucknor screwed us so many times.

Yes I agree but once he saved us. MS Dhoni in Lords 2007 , last wicket, india playing to save the test match.. plumb lbw appeal and it was pretty adjacent and would have crashed into middle stump.. Bucknor says not out.. england bowlers are flabbergasted.. rain gets heavier and we draw the test.. then the jellybeangate test happens and India after drawing the last test wins the series 1-0. Last time we won a series there.. 9 months down the line Bucknor has rectified his eyesight but suddenly has hearing issues.. Symonds nicks given not out in Sydney and rest is history..

[New guy]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Sachin had 3 different kinds of sweeps, one of them played so fine that I have never seen another batsman try. Then at an old age he developed that ramp over keeper, he did that to 150 kph pacers. He also had crazy innovation in bowling. Kids these days have no idea about the kind of magician Sachin was, perhaps the only true all round genius of the game after Sir Garfield Sobers.

Thats why i laugh at people like @cpct, Sachin played in an era where there was no manufactured PR or BCCI stifling criticism, everyone and his dog could criticize and abuse Sachin. His fan following happened because he was truly one of a kind, he used to get abuses even if he failed in one single match oncluding from the commentators and media. 

 

There is a reason he had such a fan following in that time, he was very attacking and innovative and kept on learning and adapting to each era. If he actually was a Dravid like player he wouldnt have played across 3 different era where scores went from 210 to 400+ in ODIs and he adapted to each one and went on to score the first ODI double 100 at the age of 36.

[New guy]

11 minutes ago, diga said:

Jaiswal only tried that after he had crossed 150... and that too in the third test of the series.  For me Sehwag was the first to come out of the mould of conventional thinking and he would set the tone from ball one of the first match of a series. 

Rest of the points I concur

Sachin, Azhar, all used to do that in tests as counter attack, when over seas. From ball 1 of their innings, against legendary SA and Aus bowlers at their home ground. Of course they were not opening.

[diga]

4 minutes ago, New guy said:

Sachin, Azhar, all used to do that in tests as counter attack, when over seas. From ball 1 of their innings, against legendary SA and Aus bowlers at their home ground. Of course they were not opening.

Never said that Sachin/Azhar did not attack, they were still considered conventional batsmen in every sense. 

 

Sehwag or probably Kris Srikanth were considered unconventional for the era in which they played

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, diga said:

Jaiswal only tried that after he had crossed 150... and that too in the third test of the series.  For me Sehwag was the first to come out of the mould of conventional thinking and he would set the tone from ball one of the first match of a series. 

Rest of the points I concur

Jaiswal outbazballed the bazballers, 26 6s. more than entire English squad I think. 

[Sean Bradley]

Knuckle ball was first used by Zaheer khan in intl cricket.

 

We invented loopy medium pace with a spinners action, Anil Kumble, the world started copying later by the likes of afridi, rashid khan etc. 

 

I have heard Gavaskar in commentary a few times crediting the invention of paddle sweep to Sri Ranjitsinhji. Upper cut is also a shot invented by Sachin and promoted by Sehwag later as Upar Cut. 

 

Then we invented 0, which was later mastered by Mananiya Sri Shahid Adridiji. 

[diga]

18 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Jaiswal outbazballed the bazballers, 26 6s. more than entire English squad I think. 

Yep..Jaiswal batted very well. 

But nullifying Anderson on Indian pitches is not that difficult a task too. 

[MediumPacer]

7 minutes ago, Sean Bradley said:

Knuckle ball was first used by Zaheer khan in intl cricket.

 

We invented loopy medium pace with a spinners action, Anil Kumble, the world started copying later by the likes of afridi, rashid khan etc. 

 

I have heard Gavaskar in commentary a few times crediting the invention of paddle sweep to Sri Ranjitsinhji. Upper cut is also a shot invented by Sachin and promoted by Sehwag later as Upar Cut. 

 

Then we invented 0, which was later mastered by Mananiya Sri Shahid Adridiji. 

Knuckle ball was used by charl langeveldt before zaheer.

 

billo Reilly was bowling quick leg spin way before kumble.

 

 

[Kron]

3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Jaiswal outbazballed the bazballers, 26 6s. more than entire English squad I think. 

Forget that pant started bazzball first. He decimated Australia and England.

[cpct]

4 minutes ago, Kron said:

Forget that pant started bazzball first. He decimated Australia and England.

In 1980's way before bazball. Viv ball was started by Viv Richards and in early 2000 to till the end of his retirement Sehwag used to play same kind of cricket. Which kind of cricket bazballers are playing.

[Gollum]

2 hours ago, Kron said:

Forget that pant started bazzball first. He decimated Australia and England.

Viv, Kapil in 80s. OG masters. 

[Gollum]

6 hours ago, New guy said:

Thats why i laugh at people like @cpct, Sachin played in an era where there was no manufactured PR or BCCI stifling criticism, everyone and his dog could criticize and abuse Sachin. His fan following happened because he was truly one of a kind, he used to get abuses even if he failed in one single match oncluding from the commentators and media. 

 

There is a reason he had such a fan following in that time, he was very attacking and innovative and kept on learning and adapting to each era. If he actually was a Dravid like player he wouldnt have played across 3 different era where scores went from 210 to 400+ in ODIs and he adapted to each one and went on to score the first ODI double 100 at the age of 36.

Mostly it will be kids who try to downplay Sachin. 

[maniac]

SL and Pakistan have come up with more innovative things for cricket than India.  Harsh truth.