Terrible state of Indian fast bowling,future looks bleak

[Stan AF]

I don't want to be a bummer here, but I don't think we have good quality fast bowlers in our setup at all. There's no point in blaming management, captain and selectors. There is just not enough talent to be found.

[express bowling]

23 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

I don't want to be a bummer here, but I don't think we have good quality fast bowlers in our setup at all. There's no point in blaming management, captain and selectors. There is just not enough talent to be found.

 

Stronger words were said about our pace bowling by all and sundry in 2014 and 2015, when we lost 3 consecutive away test series in 2014.

 

But 2015 to mid 2022 became the golden period for Indian fast bowling. Shami, Ishant and Umesh were already there but became transformed as bowlers. And Bumrah joined in 2016. 

 

Enough personnel were / are always there since 1989. Just need someone at the helm to mould the raw materials into finished priducts. Like we had with Kohli / Arun / Shastri / Shankar Basu from mid 2010s.

[Stan AF]

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Stronger words were said about our pace bowling by all and sundry in 2014 and 2015, when we lost 3 consecutive away test series in 2014.

 

But 2015 to mid 2022 became the golden period for Indian fast bowling. Shami, Ishant and Umesh were already there but became transformed as bowlers. And Bumrah joined in 2016. 

 

Enough personnel were / are always there since 1989. Just need someone at the helm to mould the raw materials into finished priducts. Like we had with Kohli / Arun / Shastri / Shankar Basu from mid 2010s.

Ishanth took 7 years to become a useful bowler.

Umesh was terrific in India, not so much outside.

 

Shami is the only exception here. Point is I don't see much of a raw talent available. We have only Bumrah.

[Nikhil_cric]

There are no bowlers with the potential of a Coetzee or a Will O Rourke. 

 

We may never produce a really elite quick of that quality.

 

But the problem is that we aren't producing guys who can be Scott Boland level seamers 

 

There's no reason why we can't produce even such seamers. 

[express bowling]

38 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

Ishanth took 7 years to become a useful bowler.

Umesh was terrific in India, not so much outside.

 

Shami is the only exception here. Point is I don't see much of a raw talent available. We have only Bumrah.

 

Ishant might never have become a good bowler if we had typical TMs. 

 

And we had never produced pacers of Bumrah and Shami's calibre before. But before it happened a lot of questions were raised about their abilities.

Edited December 27, 2024 by express bowling

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, Stan AF said:

Ishanth took 7 years to become a useful bowler.

Umesh was terrific in India, not so much outside.

 

Shami is the only exception here. Point is I don't see much of a raw talent available. We have only Bumrah.

Talent needs time and patience, Shami too took few years before really becoming the bowler.

Bumrah was the only exception as he started delivering from day 1 itself. 

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

There are no bowlers with the potential of a Coetzee or a Will O Rourke. 

 

We may never produce a really elite quick of that quality.

 

But the problem is that we aren't producing guys who can be Scott Boland level seamers 

 

There's no reason why we can't produce even such seamers. 

 

We have the pool of pacers, key thing is BCCI need to shortlist those and use them for A tours.

 

But we all know the musical chair which BCCI plays with A team.

Saini, Yash, Vyshak, Mukesh, Avesh, Khaleel are part of that musical chair...neither are in Indian Test team.

 

Either they are not good enough, or BCCI is poor in picking up the talents...

Strength & Conditioning is another aspect where we lack. The fast bowlers who push their body to bowl quick get injured, and then are just lost in the system waiting for their recovery.

 

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

We have the pool of pacers, key thing is BCCI need to shortlist those and use them for A tours.

 

But we all know the musical chair which BCCI plays with A team.

Saini, Yash, Vyshak, Mukesh, Avesh, Khaleel are part of that musical chair...neither are in Indian Test team.

 

Either they are not good enough, or BCCI is poor in picking up the talents...

Strength & Conditioning is another aspect where we lack. The fast bowlers who push their body to bowl quick get injured, and then are just lost in the system waiting for their recovery.

 

most of the pacers in Ind A, Duleep, and Irani have a low ceiling, but are consistent. we should be going with the opposite approach of selecting high-ceiling players even if they are inconsistent, so that they can grow in these kinds of higher-level matches and move closer to their ceiling.

 

if Bethell was chosen with FC avg of 25-ish and no 100s and limited FC matches, then we could be selecting likes of Mayank with limited FC experience.

[Lord]

5 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Stronger words were said about our pace bowling by all and sundry in 2014 and 2015, when we lost 3 consecutive away test series in 2014.

 

But 2015 to mid 2022 became the golden period for Indian fast bowling. Shami, Ishant and Umesh were already there but became transformed as bowlers. And Bumrah joined in 2016. 

 

Enough personnel were / are always there since 1989. Just need someone at the helm to mould the raw materials into finished priducts. Like we had with Kohli / Arun / Shastri / Shankar Basu from mid 2010s.

 

Turning point was Bumrah. Others were good but Boom elevated the attack to next level. Others just needed to support now instead of being spearhead.

 

Now those others are gone and replaced by rookies. It'll take time to give results

[Ultimate_Game]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Turning point was Bumrah. Others were good but Boom elevated the attack to next level. Others just needed to support now instead of being spearhead.

 

Now those others are gone and replaced by rookies. It'll take time to give results

 

Bumrah has been the biggest difference maker in our history. It's no coincidence our best Away results in Tests have come after Bumrah's arrival. He's the most irreplaceable player in our history. We can replace every other player but Bumrah is someone whose shoes will be extremely tough to fill.

[Lord]

1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Bumrah has been the biggest difference maker in our history. It's no coincidence our best Away results in Tests have come after Bumrah's arrival. He's the most irreplaceable player in our history. We can replace every other player but Bumrah is someone whose shoes will be extremely tough to fill.

yes once in a generation bowler especially for us.

[Vijy]

5 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Bumrah has been the biggest difference maker in our history. It's no coincidence our best Away results in Tests have come after Bumrah's arrival. He's the most irreplaceable player in our history. We can replace every other player but Bumrah is someone whose shoes will be extremely tough to fill.

70-90% of Ind all-time Test XI has played at least one test in past 15-20 years.

[NameGoesHere]

9 minutes ago, Lord said:

yes once in a generation bowler especially for us.

In my opinion not just once in a generation, I’d go so far as to say we’ve never seen a bowler like him in the history of Indian cricket. 

[express bowling]

16 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Turning point was Bumrah. Others were good but Boom elevated the attack to next level. Others just needed to support now instead of being spearhead.

 

Now those others are gone and replaced by rookies. It'll take time to give results

 

Siraj isn't a rookie.  Infact, in BGT 20-21, we had more rookies. 

 

Difference is the approach of the captain. Can't always expect 3 experienced pacers operating in tandem. 

[Vijy]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

Siraj isn't a rookie.  Infact, in BGT 20-21, we had more rookies. 

 

Difference is the approach of the captain. Can't always expect 3 experienced pacers operating in tandem. 

yes, look at how effectively rahane rotated our 4.5 bowlers (saini was injured in gabba), and also encouraged them to bowl with aggression

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, NameGoesHere said:

In my opinion not just once in a generation, I’d go so far as to say we’ve never seen a bowler like him in the history of Indian cricket. 

yes, he is indian cricket's best ever bowler of any kind - spin or pace.

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Siraj isn't a rookie.  Infact, in BGT 20-21, we had more rookies. 

 

Difference is the approach of the captain. Can't always expect 3 experienced pacers operating in tandem. 

yeah, he's played 35 tests and is about 30. hardly a rookie on this tour. Pant is also not a rookie anymore.

 

Jaiswal still counts as a rookie in my book.

[Yuvie]

I think firstly India need to understand the difference between fast medium and fast. Whenever they find a properly fast bowler they neglect him. Umran, Karthik and Mayank are proof of this. They are constantly overlooked in favor of ageing players that are on their way out. The Indian selection process needs to be addressed as the bcci's approach to caring for talented prospects. 

Secondly there is a place for medium quick bowlers in international cricket but it's time to realize the your fast men must be your main weapon.  And Siraj is a prime example of a medium pacer being carried despite his consistent failures.  There's plenty of talented medium pacers in India, it's time to move on to the next one.

Right now with Mayank and Umran injured there is nobody on the horizon that you can pin point as their next 150 plus bowler. This is a concerning factor.

[Ultimate_Game]

8 minutes ago, Yuvie said:

I think firstly India need to understand the difference between fast medium and fast. Whenever they find a properly fast bowler they neglect him. Umran, Karthik and Mayank are proof of this. They are constantly overlooked in favor of ageing players that are on their way out. The Indian selection process needs to be addressed as the bcci's approach to caring for talented prospects. 

Secondly there is a place for medium quick bowlers in international cricket but it's time to realize the your fast men must be your main weapon.  And Siraj is a prime example of a medium pacer being carried despite his consistent failures.  There's plenty of talented medium pacers in India, it's time to move on to the next one.

Right now with Mayank and Umran injured there is nobody on the horizon that you can pin point as their next 150 plus bowler. This is a concerning factor.

 

Please keep Mayank and Umran out of these discussions. Both have been given opportunities and have regressed or are perpetually injured.

[daryl1985]

It does not look good at all.

 I would go further and say Indian bowling has a bleak future.

 

Who will be the next spinner, are there any young wicket taking spinners with guile?