Sundar's role in whiteball cricket

[Forever Indian]

19 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Santner also took 12 wickets in one test in that NZ series. He is not their primary spinner.There are many spinners who have taken 10 plus wickets in test match.Axar is another example, he outbowled both jadeja and Ashwin in England series 2021.Axar won matches with both bat and ball .

 

Avg 47 when Jadeja scored 500 plus runs and had better avg  of 86  almost double avg than him there.

 

SA series ,If captain is unwilling to give you the ball when pitches are minefield also should say it all about Sundar's bowling ability.

 

Only one among Jadeja and Sundar can fit in the team and keep the team balanced.

 

Jadeja is still better allround package than Sundar in tests.

 

 

 

 

 

Santner wasn't playing for India, was he? Sundar was the best Indian spinner in that NZ home series however you try to twist it!

 

Yes, Jadeja was also exceptional with the bat in England away series but that does not demean what Sundar did and the impact he had.

 

SA series - Gill was captain less than half test, then Pant looked clueless in terms of captaincy. So it tells more about the captain and TM's crap utilisation of resources rather than anything else

 

I agree that at this point only one amongst Jadeja and Sundar should ideally play. But how much longer can a 37 year old Jadeja play with same effectiveness? We need Sundar to continue to be in mix and he is not doing bad at all...

 

You cannot keep chopping and changing, that will never help develop the next generation. We are already seeing that with our batting, where the right batters have not been developed due to constant chopping and changing...

 

[vvvslaxman]

This is how Patidar was hyped after a first class 100. He looked clueless against Average English spinners. Just throwing random names is easy. Jurel was also hyped. Finished with average of 7.25 lol I support Jurel too. But real problem is the actual batsmen. Pant failed. Jaiswal failed. Kela failed.   In the NZ series sarfraz scored just when the conditions were flat..in the last 2 tests he was clueless.

 

He made 150 in one innings. In the other 5 innings whe the conditions are challenging? 0 , 11, 9, 0, 1. Had he scored atleast 20 runs in the last test India would have won. Stop hyping players randomly without understanding technical issues of players. Sarfraz kept sweeping aimlessly in the last 2 tests. He had no clue how to handle turn.

[vvvslaxman]

16 minutes ago, Forever Indian said:

 

Santner wasn't playing for India, was he? Sundar was the best Indian spinner in that NZ home series however you try to twist it!

 

Yes, Jadeja was also exceptional with the bat in England away series but that does not demean what Sundar did and the impact he had.

 

SA series - Gill was captain less than half test, then Pant looked clueless in terms of captaincy. So it tells more about the captain and TM's crap utilisation of resources rather than anything else

 

I agree that at this point only one amongst Jadeja and Sundar should ideally play. But how much longer can a 37 year old Jadeja play with same effectiveness? We need Sundar to continue to be in mix and he is not doing bad at all...

 

You cannot keep chopping and changing, that will never help develop the next generation. We are already seeing that with our batting, where the right batters have not been developed due to constant chopping and changing...

 

They don't bark at bigger elephant. India failed to chase 145 190 124 in 4th innings most teams chase them. Even in Bangladesh chasing 145 we were 74 for 7. Ashein had to save their ass. Indian fans have to take a hard look at FTB batsmen who cant handle swings seam or turn

[putrevus]

49 minutes ago, Forever Indian said:

 

Santner wasn't playing for India, was he? Sundar was the best Indian spinner in that NZ home series however you try to twist it!

 

Yes, Jadeja was also exceptional with the bat in England away series but that does not demean what Sundar did and the impact he had.

 

SA series - Gill was captain less than half test, then Pant looked clueless in terms of captaincy. So it tells more about the captain and TM's crap utilisation of resources rather than anything else

 

I agree that at this point only one amongst Jadeja and Sundar should ideally play. But how much longer can a 37 year old Jadeja play with same effectiveness? We need Sundar to continue to be in mix and he is not doing bad at all...

 

You cannot keep chopping and changing, that will never help develop the next generation. We are already seeing that with our batting, where the right batters have not been developed due to constant chopping and changing...

 

I am not twisting it anything. One test he took wickets, lot of spinners have taken 10 wickets in India on Bunsen Burners .It does not make Sundar into a spinner.Axar won series with bat and ball in 2021 on those types of wickets.

 

Jadeja did alright in the same series with ball SA. Sundar took one wicket in second test and one wicket in the series.He bowled equal number of overs as Jadeja in second test.Two of them combined with Kuldeep will not get 20 wickets.

 

I am not against Sundar but when combined with Jadeja both of them harm the team more than they help. Till Jadeja is playing  and performing better than Sundar, there is no reason for them to drop Jadeja.

 

Playing Sundar when Jadeja who is better version of Sundar was ridiculous to begin with, that is where the problem started.

 

Now Sundar is asked  played in all formats as if they don't have anyone else.Shastri said back in 2021 itself, Sundar needs to go to FC and play as batsman in top order become better batsman, it was five years ago.

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2025 by putrevus

[Lord]

biggest issue is his fielding

[maniac]

What a joke of a combo

Rohit- opener

Jaiswal- opener

Virat- No.3

Rutu- Opener

Rahul- former opener turned middle order keeper bat 

Jadeja- test no.6. In Odis No.8 at best if his bowling is up to the mark or suitable conditions. In fact if your no.9 can hit big promote him over Jadeja. 
Sundar- no.8 or no.9 if he is playing a pure bowler just like Jadeja above. In tests can be a no.6 or no.7

Harahit Rana- he is a typical no.10 tulla who will come off for some quick runs once in a while. Joke to call him an allrounder.

why can’t we bring Tilak in place of Jadeja or Sundar. Brilliant fielder and in ODIs I think he will bowl 3-4 overs easily. In fact I feel Abhishek and Parag are very good bowlers for part timers and will be more useful than Sundar and Jadeja. for sure. However Jadeja the fielder is a GOAT. That’s irreplaceable .

Edited December 5, 2025 by maniac

[Lord]

12 minutes ago, maniac said:

What a joke of a combo

Rohit- opener

Jaiswal- opener

Virat- No.3

Rutu- Opener

Rahul- former opener turned middle order keeper bat 

Jadeja- test no.6. In Odis No.8 at best if his bowling is up to the mark or suitable conditions. In fact if your no.9 can hit big promote him over Jadeja. 
Sundar- no.8 or no.9 if he is playing a pure bowler just like Jadeja above. In tests can be a no.6 or no.7

Harahit Rana- he is a typical no.10 tulla who will come off for some quick runs once in a while. Joke to call him an allrounder.

why can’t we bring Tilak in place of Jadeja or Sundar. Brilliant fielder and in ODIs I think he will bowl 3-4 overs easily. In fact I feel Abhishek and Parag are very good bowlers for part timers and will be more useful than Sundar and Jadeja. for sure. However Jadeja the fielder is a GOAT. That’s irreplaceable .

 

Tilak,Parag,Rinku,Samson all should have been in the squad

 

Not convinced KL has turned the corner too

[maniac]

33 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Tilak,Parag,Rinku,Samson all should have been in the squad

 

Not convinced KL has turned the corner too

If I look at keepers  Pant, Samson, Ishan, Rahul are all interchangeable with each other.So any 1 max is enough. none of them are so great that you can afford to play both at the same time lol, better to go with more depth with someone better instead of 2 of those. 

 

Jurel is a tier below all 4 in my opinion even more so in white ball.  

Jitesh Sharma upside is T20s max even there I don’t rate him but don’t think he is even an option for Odis. Same with Prabhsimran who I feel should be given a chance against low tier teams at least.
 

 

 

 

[tapandrun]

7 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

We were the best bowling unit in thr world for 5 years because of support seamers and Ash and Jaddu combo. Now we are in transition phase.  We lost Ishant first. Thankfully siraj somewhat covered it. We lost umesh at home.  Ashwin covered for it. Now we have lost shami as well.  Sundar lacks experience.  He needs a lot of overs under  his belt to evolve. Same goes for Kuldeep. Give them a lot of overs to evolve. In this day and age it is rare to find a batsman who can do well across different countries different conditions  showing good technique temperament and game awareness.   Our batsmen either struggle against pace  or bounce or turn. Some have great technique and invariably choke. If they really want to get the most out of him give him more overs.  He is not the problem. It is the full time batsmen and full time bowlers are the problem. Jadeja will soon leave. If you take out sundar you will continue lose last 6 wickets 30 odd runs

 

yes, have been posting that Ind kept on losing bowlers and they didnt any bowlers and now they lost 3-4 regular batters.

Do not think this has ever happened, even when Ind was stuck with fixing scandal it has Sachin, Dravid, Gangully, Kubmle and Srinath.

 

Now they have jadeja and Kl. 

Posted about low averaging Ind test batter, where Ind has only 1 batter batting above 45 avg. 

 

In regards to Sundar as other posters said he need alot of overs under his belt for that he needs to play FCC and Ind A, being a bits and pieces bowler in Ind side will not help, 

If it would have been a well functioning team then you could have a developing player but nt at this time. Ind needs to find batters who can score big and bowlers who ensure 20 wkts  

 

 

 

[tapandrun]

7 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

I would like Riyan Parag as the first choice LOI batter who can bowl spin. But he is not even in the squad. 

 

ODIs ....

 

1. Gill

2. Rohit

3. Kohli

4. Shreyas / Gaikwad

5. Keeper batsman

6. Parag

7. Hardik

8. Axar

9. Harshit / Arshdeep 

10. Kuldeep

11. Bumrah 

 

Parag does not give much confidence , bt could be wrong. Good thing about him he bowls regularly bowls all sort of spin off, carom, jadhav kind as well.

And his is v.fast mover in the out field and v.good catcher.

 

[vvvslaxman]

21 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

yes, have been posting that Ind kept on losing bowlers and they didnt any bowlers and now they lost 3-4 regular batters.

Do not think this has ever happened, even when Ind was stuck with fixing scandal it has Sachin, Dravid, Gangully, Kubmle and Srinath.

 

Now they have jadeja and Kl. 

Posted about low averaging Ind test batter, where Ind has only 1 batter batting above 45 avg. 

 

In regards to Sundar as other posters said he need alot of overs under his belt for that he needs to play FCC and Ind A, being a bits and pieces bowler in Ind side will not help, 

If it would have been a well functioning team then you could have a developing player but nt at this time. Ind needs to find batters who can score big and bowlers who ensure 20 wkts  

 

 

 

 

This is 2024 stats for Tamilnadu in Ranji trophy. He had a lot of overs under his belt. You have to realize SUndar had not played first class for 4 years when he was picked for Gabba test. HE didn't have enough overs at that point. Only last year he made strong strides in domestic.

 

IN 2022 in his county debut for lanchashire he picked 5 for 76

 

 

 

[rollingstoned]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

This is 2024 stats for Tamilnadu in Ranji trophy. He had a lot of overs under his belt. You have to realize SUndar had not played first class for 4 years when he was picked for Gabba test. HE didn't have enough overs at that point. Only last year he made strong strides in domestic.

 

IN 2022 in his county debut for lanchashire he picked 5 for 76

 

 

 

He made his debut in t20s iirc in 2016/17. Seems like TMs always see him as a white ball option to contain. 

The Gabba debut he got was pure chance due to a lot of injuries, just like Nattu. 

Edited December 5, 2025 by rollingstoned

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

He made his debut in t20s iirc in 2016/17. Seems like TMs always see him as a white ball option to contain. 

The Gabba debut he got was pure chance due to a lot of injuries, just like Nattu. 

Yea. For someone with very little experience he already played some high pressure knocks. He basically learnt it on the job.

[Gollum]

Let us stick to the topic and not mix formats. Sundar is a terrible white ball player. I blame the selectors and GG for ruining our team combos. 

 

But he has an important role in tests, groom him to take over Jaddu's role who IMO is the MVP in SC conditions and serviceable in SENA, big boots to fill. If he becomes 80% of the test player Jaddu is, he will win many matches and series for India. Sundar playing alongside Jaddu, sharing the dressing room and learning from the master, will pay dividends for Indian cricket in the future....not just bowling, even in batting the match saving partnership they had in Manchester was an invaluable learning experience for him. But when he isn't playing tests, he should be sending down 1000s of overs in FC, A tours and not wasting time on formats not made for him.....as Ashwin said in his recent YT video, he needs many many overs under his belt. If you compare 26 yo Washi to 26 yo Ashwin or Jaddu, there is a huge gulf in their bowling, and it has a lot to do with how many overs the two legends bowled by the time they were that age. 

 

Sundar's role in tests is still not clear. Sometimes he bats at #8, other times at #5, suddenly #3 in one match. Bowls 1 over in a test and 30 overs in the next one. Suddenly he is selected in white ball ahead of dozen more viable candidates, and again every match he is assigned a different role. This is not good for player development, very unfair on the young man. 

Edited December 5, 2025 by Gollum

[vvvslaxman]

28 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Let us stick to the topic and not mix formats. Sundar is a terrible white ball player. I blame the selectors and GG for ruining our team combos. 

 

But he has an important role in tests, groom him to take over Jaddu's role who IMO is the MVP in SC conditions and serviceable in SENA, big boots to fill. If he becomes 80% of the test player Jaddu is, he will win many matches and series for India. Sundar playing alongside Jaddu, sharing the dressing room and learning from the master, will pay dividends for Indian cricket in the future....not just bowling, even in batting the match saving partnership they had in Manchester was an invaluable learning experience for him. But when he isn't playing tests, he should be sending down 1000s of overs in FC, A tours and not wasting time on formats not made for him.....as Ashwin said in his recent YT video, he needs many many overs under his belt. If you compare 26 yo Washi to 26 yo Ashwin or Jaddu, there is a huge gulf in their bowling, and it has a lot to do with how many overs the two legends bowled by the time they were that age. 

 

Sundar's role in tests is still not clear. Sometimes he bats at #8, other times at #5, suddenly #3 in one match. Bowls 1 over in a test and 30 overs in the next one. Suddenly he is selected in white ball ahead of dozen more viable candidates, and again every match he is assigned a different role. This is not good for player development, very unfair on the young man. 

 

 

I rate his batting above Jaddu.  Jaddu's strength is great percentage cricket. He can get into this ungetouttable mode. 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

https://www.insidesport.in/cricket/treat-washington-sundar-as-gautam-gambhir-asked-to-give-proper-role-clarity-to-all-rounder/

 

'Treat Washington Sundar as Bowler...': Gambhir asked to give 'proper role clarity' to all-rounder

 

Ahead of the IND vs SA 3rd ODI, Ashwin urged the team management to encourage Washington Sundar to bowl more.

Former Indian cricketer Ravichandran Ashwin stressed on the need for Washington Sundar to be utilized fully with the ball in the 50-over format of the game. The Tamil Nadu all-rounder has played more or less like a pure batter in the ongoing IND vs SA ODIs and hardly bowled in both games he has played so far. Ahead of the 3rd ODI in Visakhapatnam, Ashwin urged the team management to encourage Sundar to bowl more.

‘Treat Sundar as a bowler’

In a video on his YouTube channel, Ashwin stated that it was important for India to treat Washington as a bowler who can bat so that he will have that mindset. The former Indian spinner warned that bowling Sundar for only a few overs while he focuses on his batting will leave him searching for who he is. Ashwin asked head coach Gautam Gambhir and the team management to give Sundar a proper role clarity and what is expected from him.

“Once you have decided to play Washington Sundar, you’ve to treat him as a bowler who can bat. You’ve to bowl out his overs. Only if he keeps bowling, he’ll have the mindset of a bowler who can bat. Otherwise if he just bats and bowls a few overs, he’ll keep searching who he is. So don’t leave him in the searching space. Instead, the team should arrive at giving him the proper role clarity,” said Ashwin.

Sundar has been batting at number 5 in the ongoing series, being slotted ahead of skipper KL Rahul. So far, he has managed to score just 13 and 1 in two games. With the ball, the spinner has been used for a combined 7 overs in the 2 ODIs. It will be interesting to see if India use Washi more with the ball in the IND vs SA 3rd ODI or if the team decides to bench him.

[vvvslaxman]

Nobody could have said more clearly than Ashwin.  This dumb f***  Gambhir is ruining SUndar with his random usage in the name of backing. He has done this to many palyers in recent times. There was one match in Asia cup Sanju did not even bat. Then he batted at 3 in one match. Then batted at 4, 5. He is doing the same in Tests. Trying to slot players willy nilly without role clarity. This is not bloody KKR where you can send Sunil Narine to open the innings for some free runs.

[R!TTER]

11 hours ago, Forever Indian said:

Santner wasn't playing for India, was he? Sundar was the best Indian spinner in that NZ home series however you try to twist it!

 

Yes, Jadeja was also exceptional with the bat in England away series but that does not demean what Sundar did and the impact he had.

 

SA series - Gill was captain less than half test, then Pant looked clueless in terms of captaincy. So it tells more about the captain and TM's crap utilisation of resources rather than anything else

 

I agree that at this point only one amongst Jadeja and Sundar should ideally play. But how much longer can a 37 year old Jadeja play with same effectiveness? We need Sundar to continue to be in mix and he is not doing bad at all...

 

You cannot keep chopping and changing, that will never help develop the next generation. We are already seeing that with our batting, where the right batters have not been developed due to constant chopping and changing...

 

On square turners, he didn't play the 1st test where ball wasn't doin much for spinners! Also what did he do at Guwahati?

 

A lot of you are trying to make him as an Ashwin or even Jadeja replacement - he's not even close right now! Jadeja, while on a downwards slide, was an absolute beast on roads like Chennai 2016, Ranchi 2017 or Delhi 2017 same goes for Ashwin but IMO Jadeja was better on such dead decks even if marginally so. Right now Sundar's not really close to them as a bowler, although his batting is generally better & probably only going to go up from here.

 

Yes but this was an issue even with BRat, remember the 37(38?) constantly changing squads? Which doesn't mean it wasn't a bad thing but this has happened before.

Edited December 5, 2025 by R!TTER

[Gollum]

33 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Nobody could have said more clearly than Ashwin.  This dumb f***  Gambhir is ruining SUndar with his random usage in the name of backing. He has done this to many palyers in recent times. There was one match in Asia cup Sanju did not even bat. Then he batted at 3 in one match. Then batted at 4, 5. He is doing the same in Tests. Trying to slot players willy nilly without role clarity. This is not bloody KKR where you can send Sunil Narine to open the innings for some free runs.

Indian team may even win 26 T20 WC because we have 4-5 world class players without equals in rest of the world....Abhishek, Bumrah, Kuldeep, Chakri, Hardik.

 

But GG still has to go, he has no idea about player development. There is no method in his coaching. By the time he is done, damage to the psyche/confidence of our youngsters will be irreversible. 

 

[vvvslaxman]

24 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Indian team may even win 26 T20 WC because we have 4-5 world class players without equals in rest of the world....Abhishek, Bumrah, Kuldeep, Chakri, Hardik.

 

But GG still has to go, he has no idea about player development. There is no method in his coaching. By the time he is done, damage to the psyche/confidence of our youngsters will be irreversible. 

 

 

It is fine and dandy trying to maximize the potential of a player. We did use Irfan pathan at 3 in Australia. Has been promoted up the order. But they didn't stop him from bowling because of that. This is the most bizarre thing i have ever seen from a coach. When he was batting at 3 in the first test he was not given any overs. When he batted at 8 in the next test he was given overs. All rounders feed off from each department.