Have we under-achieved in T20s?

[tapandrun]

Do not think Ind has underachieved. Ind has not been a good t20i side and they played it like a side gig.

 

All these bi-laterals gives false results, how many Ind batters till now are suited fr t20i cricket, hardly any. It was always an extension of Odis for most of the players.

Apart from bhumrah who is a bowler who can Impact the opp... they had so many uni-dimensional players , bowlers can not bat , batter can not ball.. there is/was no concept of match-ups. Last Wc 2 LH batters were those who had some secondary skill...

 

Till v.recently Gill was Ind v.captain

 

The last t20i wc was a luck it was not a proper t20i side. 

 

[putrevus]

49 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Do not think Ind has underachieved. Ind has not been a good t20i side and they played it like a side gig.

 

All these bi-laterals gives false results, how many Ind batters till now are suited fr t20i cricket, hardly any. It was always an extension of Odis for most of the players.

Apart from bhumrah who is a bowler who can Impact the opp... they had so many uni-dimensional players , bowlers can not bat , batter can not ball.. there is/was no concept of match-ups. Last Wc 2 LH batters were those who had some secondary skill...

 

Till v.recently Gill was Ind v.captain

 

The last t20i wc was a luck it was not a proper t20i side. 

 

Bilaterals don't give false results. Bilaterals show your depth and strength. SL used to be good even in bilaterals in early 2010 it proved them reaching finals in 202 and 2014.Pakistan had strong t20 team , it reached finals in 2007 and won in 2009.

 

You need some luck to win world cups.If Ashwin did not bowl that no ball in 2016 WI was not reaching finals.

 

 

Edited January 12 by putrevus

[tapandrun]

5 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Bilaterals don't give false results. Bilaterals show your depth and strength. SL used to be good even in bilaterals in early 2010 it proved them reaching finals in 202 and 2014.Pakistan has strong t20 team , it reached finals in 2007 and won in 2009.

 

You need some luck to win world cups.If Ashwin did not bowl that no ball in 2016 WI was not reaching finals.

 

 

 

 

Ind cricket has lots of depth and strength thats why they can custom-fit a team for bi-laterals and hence we get false results most of the times.

Player like Chahal plays each and every match before the wc and once the wc is on they do not find a place in playing 11.

 

Ind is unable to decide who are best 15 and who are best 11 to play hence players like Ashwin makes to the team from no where.

 

Ind can field multiple teams in SC and sc like conditions and still be competitive hence they reach semis often, but the issue is getting the proper 15 and then issue is are they any good over the other teams when they play on 100% strength...

 

Till now there has not been a single power hitter in t20is, Ind never had a finisher in t20is .

 

Yes luck is req. as Ind had in last t20i wc, but they never have been top t20i side and Odi players kept playing in t20i. 

 

Do not remember the entitr playing 11 of SL /Pak in those wcs but they had multiple allrounders and x-factor bowlers like malinga.

Pak had multiple allrounders and x-factor bowler like Ajmal and gull

 

 

[Ultimate_Game]

It's the same for ODIs as well over the last decade and a half. Check out the ODI stats over the last decade and a half, and we've the best numbers and also the best performances in ICC tournies. We've barely lost 4 matches across the last 3 WCs (2015, 2019 and 2023) and yet Aus have 2 trophies in that time and we've zilch to show for our domination.

 

Three main reasons for it, and this is the same for T20s...

1. Biased and poor selections: Picking stars or preferred players over low-profile better players. As an example picking likes of Rahane in 2015 WC, or going with 4 wks in 2019 WC or picking useless SKY ahead of other proven domestic performers in 2023 WC. Same is the case in T20Is where likes of Jaiswal and Rinku have languished and selectors are pushing likes of Gill down our throat. This trend is still continuing with KL Rahul and Jadeja still in ODIs. It doesn't help that our team management has been equally poor with team selections when they backed a failed TTF like Chahal for so long and dropped Shami for important matches, or kept Varun C out for so long despite him being the best LOI bowler after Bumrah.

 

2. Luck with the toss: We've lost nearly every key toss - be it "win the toss win the match" ones at Dewbai in 2021 or WC 2023 Final, or 2019 WC SF. We simply don't have that luck factor which Aussies do who rarely lose an important toss. They won 6 out of 7 tosses in 2021 WT20 at Dewbai resulting in their only WT20 win and won the key toss in 2023 WC final. They lose those two tosses and they don't win those tournies. That's why BCCI has to make sure India's important matches, especially knockouts are mostly day games where dew and other factors don't come into play but BCCI would prefer money over 

 

3. Batting stars not showing up when it mattered: Unlike their Aussie counterparts our batting stars have shrunk in the spotlight instead of raising their games. Likes of Kohli, Rohit, KL Rahul have consistently under-performed in knockouts over the last decade. They fill their boots in group stages but when it came to "winner takes it all" matches they failed. That's why Aussies have 2 ODI WCs out of the last 3 despite us being the much better team as they had likes of Smith, Warner, Travis Head show up when it mattered. T20Is has been the same scenario except for Wt20 2024 where Rohit changed the philosophy by putting the team first.

 

4. BCCI favoring money more than titles: They've picked stars over performers, and have scheduled matches at toss-dependent venues such as Modi stadium where the side winning the toss and chasing has a huge advantage. They know that we would be the favorites if conditions remain the same but they don't care. At the very least they can make the knockout matches Day matches so dew doesn't come into play and conditions remain the same but they don't care. We won WT20 in 2024 coz the matches were played during day time and conditions remained the same throughout. We've lost WTC finals coz BCCI put greed before the tournies as BCCI sent teams to WTC without any prep and showed up after playing IPL most of the times when players were tired or injured. 2021 WT20 showed this when the tourney was held merely days after a grueling 2 month IPL. If BCCI really cared about the trophies, they would've pushed for WTC Final to be held in India or scheduled ICC tournies which had ample gap between IPL and the tournies, or selected teams/players based on performances instead of star power, or played matches at venues or in conditions (say Day games) which stayed the same throughout.

 

[putrevus]

15 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

 

Ind cricket has lots of depth and strength thats why they can custom-fit a team for bi-laterals and hence we get false results most of the times.

Player like Chahal plays each and every match before the wc and once the wc is on they do not find a place in playing 11.

 

Ind is unable to decide who are best 15 and who are best 11 to play hence players like Ashwin makes to the team from no where.

 

Ind can field multiple teams in SC and sc like conditions and still be competitive hence they reach semis often, but the issue is getting the proper 15 and then issue is are they any good over the other teams when they play on 100% strength...

 

Till now there has not been a single power hitter in t20is, Ind never had a finisher in t20is .

 

Yes luck is req. as Ind had in last t20i wc, but they never have been top t20i side and Odi players kept playing in t20i. 

 

Do not remember the entitr playing 11 of SL /Pak in those wcs but they had multiple allrounders and x-factor bowlers like malinga.

Pak had multiple allrounders and x-factor bowler like Ajmal and gull

 

 

No, It does not have lot of depth.They don't have any fast bowlers or quality spinners.

 

The only thing they have now is some top order batsmen. So more players does not mean better quality.

[tapandrun]

51 minutes ago, putrevus said:

No, It does not have lot of depth.They don't have any fast bowlers or quality spinners.

 

The only thing they have now is some top order batsmen. So more players does not mean better quality.

Fast bowlers have always been an issue, and having an x-factor issue has been a problem to. Have posted multiple times about it.

That is because of how Ind crkting system is..

 

But Ind can field 2 team with similar kind of ability baring bhumrah.. Thats the issue Ind never had a finisher and aways been a team reliant on top3 to get runs and thats how they have played an extension of odi cricket where top3 consumes most of the resources and play how ever they like to play.

[BacktoCricaddict]

On 1/11/2026 at 1:57 AM, jf1gp_1 said:

Hope he bounces back soon. 

Given his age and the fact that his batting is very reflex-dependent, I highly doubt that this will happen. Maybe in the IPL or against minnow-nations, but not against the best. 

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Fast bowlers have always been an issue, and having an x-factor issue has been a problem to. Have posted multiple times about it.

That is because of how Ind crkting system is..

 

But Ind can field 2 team with similar kind of ability baring bhumrah.. Thats the issue Ind never had a finisher and aways been a team reliant on top3 to get runs and thats how they have played an extension of odi cricket where top3 consumes most of the resources and play how ever they like to play.

India has numbers not depth.That numbers are due to the immense population.

 

Aussies had depth in 2000s just like WI in late 70 and 80s.

 

India can field 100 teams but it does not make them great.

[tapandrun]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

India has numbers not depth.That numbers are due to the immense population.

 

Aussies had depth in 2000s just like WI in late 70 and 80s.

 

India can field 100 teams but it does not make them great.

 

yes ind has depth but not v.high quality, I have posted the reason why Ind does not produce faster bowlers and big spinning wrist spinners.

 

Edited January 12 by tapandrun

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, tapandrun said:

 

 

Ind cricket has lots of depth and strength thats why they can custom-fit a team for bi-laterals and hence we get false results most of the times.

Player like Chahal plays each and every match before the wc and once the wc is on they do not find a place in playing 11.

 

Ind is unable to decide who are best 15 and who are best 11 to play hence players like Ashwin makes to the team from no where.

 

Ind can field multiple teams in SC and sc like conditions and still be competitive hence they reach semis often, but the issue is getting the proper 15 and then issue is are they any good over the other teams when they play on 100% strength...

 

Till now there has not been a single power hitter in t20is, Ind never had a finisher in t20is .

 

Yes luck is req. as Ind had in last t20i wc, but they never have been top t20i side and Odi players kept playing in t20i. 

 

Do not remember the entitr playing 11 of SL /Pak in those wcs but they had multiple allrounders and x-factor bowlers like malinga.

Pak had multiple allrounders and x-factor bowler like Ajmal and gull

 

 

India consistently made selection blunders despite having alternative resources. There were always one or two bad apples in every squad we carrid. In ODIs we are the best tournament team by some distance since 2010. Even in T20 we could havebeen one. But during transitoin we made a mess of everything. Yuvraj was horrendously out of touch. We never carried form players. Always had a few nostalgic picks, safe picks (like Rahane). Jadeja playing in 2010 world T20 and 2012 world T20 was a travesty. 

[tapandrun]

17 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

India consistently made selection blunders despite having alternative resources. There were always one or two bad apples in every squad we carrid. In ODIs we are the best tournament team by some distance since 2010. Even in T20 we could havebeen one. But during transitoin we made a mess of everything. Yuvraj was horrendously out of touch. We never carried form players. Always had a few nostalgic picks, safe picks (like Rahane). Jadeja playing in 2010 world T20 and 2012 world T20 was a travesty. 

 

Ind does not have understanding of the of how to select the team, player who are good in some diff. formats makes into other formats too. that because they want to create stars rather than a winning side.

 

Players who are not suited for the format keeps playing till they get found out in big tournaments , the pick is mostly based on one innings or some good showing vs a low ranked sides.

 

If you are not a super side like wi past and aus of late 90s and early 00s then you need players with x-factors. Which Ind does not produce much they are mostly run of the mill players. 

 

you can win home series with such team in home or home like condition or if opp. is not at 100% strength bt once the icc events comes these run of the mill player are found out.

 

They tried to insert rutu and gill in the t20i side which they are not good at, they keep playing chahal in all the bilaterals and once the icc event comes he can not even find the place because he is not cut out for playing 11 as he can not bat or field, same thing is going to happen to kuldeep. Ind can custom fit a team for bilateral but in icc event they have no idea.

 

And in recent time the idea of like to like replacements have made a bench of downgrade players-- creating a custom fit side , rather than making a strong selection who challenges the previous players spot

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12 by tapandrun

[Lone Wolf]

11 hours ago, tapandrun said:

they keep playing chahal in all the bilaterals and once the icc event comes he can not even find the place because he is not cut out for playing 11

This is the last time I am defending dropping chahal.

His last 15-20 T20Is were dreadful for India with extremely high economy rates.

Bishnoi was bowling well those days.

 

Amount of Propaganda that ICT fans sprout for Chahal as if it was unfair to drop him is laughable.  Mediocre player should have been booted out ages ago.  

IPL performance is a mirage masked  his failings in Internationals.

Edited January 13 by Lone Wolf

[tapandrun]

6 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

This is the last time I am defending dropping chahal.

His last 15-20 T20Is were dreadful for India with extremely high economy rates.

Bishnoi was bowling well those days.

 

Amount of Propaganda that ICT fans sprout for Chahal as if it was unfair to drop him is laughable.  Mediocre player should have been booted out ages ago.  

IPL performance is a mirage masked by his failings in Internationals.

Yes, he was never going to fit into playing 11 playing in icc event , he was not a kind of bowler who was threatening  both inside+outside edges. 

And add to that a v.poor fielder + no batting skills, Ind was effectively was playing with 10 player if he was not picking 3 imp wkt of opp. side which never happens in icc events.

His main wkt taking balls were tossed out side off hoping batter loses power, which can work vs not so good batters but it does not work vs top t20 batter or full strength top 4-5 t20i sides.

Ind never think like that they do not think of wining or building for wc but they look for cheap and meaningless bilateral wins. 

Edited January 13 by tapandrun

[tapandrun]

13 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

It's the same for ODIs as well over the last decade and a half. Check out the ODI stats over the last decade and a half, and we've the best numbers and also the best performances in ICC tournies. We've barely lost 4 matches across the last 3 WCs (2015, 2019 and 2023) and yet Aus have 2 trophies in that time and we've zilch to show for our domination.

 

Three main reasons for it, and this is the same for T20s...

1. Biased and poor selections: Picking stars or preferred players over low-profile better players. As an example picking likes of Rahane in 2015 WC, or going with 4 wks in 2019 WC or picking useless SKY ahead of other proven domestic performers in 2023 WC. Same is the case in T20Is where likes of Jaiswal and Rinku have languished and selectors are pushing likes of Gill down our throat. This trend is still continuing with KL Rahul and Jadeja still in ODIs. It doesn't help that our team management has been equally poor with team selections when they backed a failed TTF like Chahal for so long and dropped Shami for important matches, or kept Varun C out for so long despite him being the best LOI bowler after Bumrah.

 

2. Luck with the toss: We've lost nearly every key toss - be it "win the toss win the match" ones at Dewbai in 2021 or WC 2023 Final, or 2019 WC SF. We simply don't have that luck factor which Aussies do who rarely lose an important toss. They won 6 out of 7 tosses in 2021 WT20 at Dewbai resulting in their only WT20 win and won the key toss in 2023 WC final. They lose those two tosses and they don't win those tournies. That's why BCCI has to make sure India's important matches, especially knockouts are mostly day games where dew and other factors don't come into play but BCCI would prefer money over 

 

3. Batting stars not showing up when it mattered: Unlike their Aussie counterparts our batting stars have shrunk in the spotlight instead of raising their games. Likes of Kohli, Rohit, KL Rahul have consistently under-performed in knockouts over the last decade. They fill their boots in group stages but when it came to "winner takes it all" matches they failed. That's why Aussies have 2 ODI WCs out of the last 3 despite us being the much better team as they had likes of Smith, Warner, Travis Head show up when it mattered. T20Is has been the same scenario except for Wt20 2024 where Rohit changed the philosophy by putting the team first.

 

4. BCCI favoring money more than titles: They've picked stars over performers, and have scheduled matches at toss-dependent venues such as Modi stadium where the side winning the toss and chasing has a huge advantage. They know that we would be the favorites if conditions remain the same but they don't care. At the very least they can make the knockout matches Day matches so dew doesn't come into play and conditions remain the same but they don't care. We won WT20 in 2024 coz the matches were played during day time and conditions remained the same throughout. We've lost WTC finals coz BCCI put greed before the tournies as BCCI sent teams to WTC without any prep and showed up after playing IPL most of the times when players were tired or injured. 2021 WT20 showed this when the tourney was held merely days after a grueling 2 month IPL. If BCCI really cared about the trophies, they would've pushed for WTC Final to be held in India or scheduled ICC tournies which had ample gap between IPL and the tournies, or selected teams/players based on performances instead of star power, or played matches at venues or in conditions (say Day games) which stayed the same throughout.

 

 

The issue is they never cared about winning championships and bilateral performances were good enough. Creating stars is more impt than winning icc events.

After the yuvi and raina were gone Ind batting was effectively remained 3 batters side.

 

If there was an opp. they would all it takes to roll-over Ind side was to take top 3 batter and game is done and Ind will not even compete.

 

Only last wc Ind had 4-5 batters and they did well but soon 3 batters were out Ind had to play with caution and under-pressure were KL is not good , so Ind is effectively a 4.5 batter side now and they do not want to improve it.

 

Need 6 good batters 1-2 allrounders and  3-4 v.good bowlers to win the event. they kept saying that because no one bowls in top 5 that why Ind fails in big events , have they resolved it ...no.

 

Do they have a finisher ... no are they trying to fix it no. player like jadu/axar/sundar are playing #5/6/7/8 these are the batters with least power game.

 

 

Ind Odi side is more like a test side where they just have 5 batters who can only bat and 5 bowlers who can only bowl.

The day Ind loses top 3 wkts the game will be over for them and they will just go by motions, not even trying to compete. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 13 by tapandrun

[Suhaan]

Only Kohli is super high quality titan,if he was a bowler

I would have blamed batsmen day in and day out 

[Nikhil_cric]

Our players just weren't good enough .

 

Just look at IPL 2015.

 

The guys who scored 300 runs at 140+ strike rate and 30+ average

 

Warner

Devilliers

Gayle 

Pollard

Russell

McCullum

Rohit

 

We were no match for that Windies' lineup( no team was) and it showed at the World T20 next year. 

Edited January 13 by Nikhil_cric

[vvvslaxman]

Now everythign looks right.

[Ultimate_Game]

8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Now everythign looks right.

 

Wouldn't have been much better had we selected performers instead of seniors earlier. We lost a decade playing the non-performing seniors. We backed likes of KL Rahul, Chahal, Rahane etc. for so long and continued with the approach of just 5-6 batters and a long tail. The moment we corrected this post 2022 we've had 3-4 titles!

[Lord]

On 1/12/2026 at 10:48 AM, putrevus said:

Bilaterals don't give false results. Bilaterals show your depth and strength. SL used to be good even in bilaterals in early 2010 it proved them reaching finals in 202 and 2014.Pakistan had strong t20 team , it reached finals in 2007 and won in 2009.

 

You need some luck to win world cups.If Ashwin did not bowl that no ball in 2016 WI was not reaching finals.

 

 

Bowling no ball is not bad luck, its basic skill

[Ultimate_Game]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

Bowling no ball is not bad luck, its basic skill

 

Wides I can understand but no-ball is criminal in LOIs