Is Washington Sundar honestly the best off spinner in India?

[SecondSlip]

Tanush Kotian seems a much better selection for our test team compared to Sundar! 

[vvvslaxman]

Khotian is the only competition he has. To be fair he should have been given a go in afghanistan tour following his perormance against SA A.  Sundar's batting is always going to pip him over anybody in Tests. He is a clutch test batsman. Played more clutch test knocks in his career than many specialist in their entire career.

 

 

[cricspirit]

Is that a serious question ?? Guy does not even get to bowl overs in IPL. plays as a batter. 

 

He may do well in few tests here and there, but its been years since he is in the setup and yet to make any serious impact with the ball. 

 

 

 

 

[AKane]

28 minutes ago, cricspirit said:

Is that a serious question ?? Guy does not even get to bowl overs in IPL. plays as a batter. 

 

He may do well in few tests here and there, but its been years since he is in the setup and yet to make any serious impact with the ball. 

 

 

 

 

He was our most effective spinner in the NZ tests we lost  yes.....

[BacktoCricaddict]

One could've made that argument about 1.5 yrs ago - in Nov 2024 - when he picked up 16 wickets in 2 home tests against NZ at an avg of 16 and SR of 26.

 

India got trounced in that series due to batting ineptitude and his bowling exploits were largely forgotten. 

 

And as others have stated above, he has played some ultimate clutch knocks to win / save tests for India. 

 

So, he is certainly capable of being the test all-rounder that India needs. Who knows? I am still trying to figure out why he hasn't built on that success.

[vvvslaxman]

9 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

One could've made that argument about 1.5 yrs ago - in Nov 2024 - when he picked up 16 wickets in 2 home tests against NZ at an avg of 16 and SR of 26.

 

India got trounced in that series due to batting ineptitude and his bowling exploits were largely forgotten. 

 

And as others have stated above, he has played some ultimate clutch knocks to win / save tests for India. 

 

So, he is certainly capable of being the test all-rounder that India needs. Who knows? I am still trying to figure out why he hasn't built on that success.

Just pick him for Tests. He doesn't have the skills for shorter formats unless he plays as a bowling all rounder where he bats at 8.

[BacktoCricaddict]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

He doesn't have the skills for shorter formats unless he plays as a bowling all rounder where he bats at 8.

If I remember correctly, he used to be a good PP bowling option many years ago in the IPL. 

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

If I remember correctly, he used to be a good PP bowling option many years ago in the IPL. 

He has regressed. Most recent performances shows he has changed his action a touch. It is flattish and short almost like he doens't want to get hit. The ball that took out Brook at Lords was a peach. Also he thrice bowled Rachin in India with peach of deliveries something even Ashwin couldn't produce. I wonder if he stopped focusing on his bowling altogether.

[putrevus]

He is as useless as they come and our coach has played him at number 3 in tests.

[IndianRenegade]

I have no idea how this guy even gets picked in IPL. He is a good fill in for test pitches that help spin. 

[tapandrun]

Sundar could be most hyped cricketer ever who has nothing to show for, think we have been hearing about him for nearly 7-8 yrs now. 

 

Have seen hype about some1 who got a v.v.high score in an innings or got like 7-8 wkts in an innings but he has nothing like it, but there have been alot of media coverage on him.

 

He is not top 6 batters in any format , he can not play 7-8 in white-ball because of lack of power game, Do not think he is test level off-spinner. Both Harbhajan and Ashwin were more skilled when they made their test debut and is not even close after being so long in the system.

Edited May 27 by tapandrun

[BacktoCricaddict]

You guys are too harsh on him, forgetting the key contributions he has made to multiple test wins and saves.

 

Quick AI summary

 Over his 17-match Test career, he has compiled 885 runs at a stellar average of (42.14), frequently stepping up when the top order collapses and anchoring match-saving or series-defining lower-order partnerships. A chronological summary of his most notable clutch test innings:

• 62 vs. Australia (The Gabba, 2021): Thrust into the team for his debut in a series decider, he walked out with India reeling at (186 \6). He compiled a composed 62 and shared a crucial 123-run stand with Shardul Thakur, helping India avoid a massive first-innings deficit and paving the way for one of their most famous overseas victories.
• 22 (29) vs. Australia (Gabba) AI did not include his 4th inning contribution when he jumpstarted the chase with an audacious 6 off Cummins. Until then, we were in survival mode, but that 6 got Pant juiced up. He only made 20-odd but that was invaluable - one for the ages 
• 96 vs. England (Ahmedabad, 2021):* Showing his ability to bat with the tail, he played an agonizingly brilliant, unbeaten (96), shepherding the lower order to push India to a decisive first-innings lead in the final match of the series.
• 101 vs. England (Manchester, 2025):* In a critical draw during the Anderson-Tendulkar Trophy, Sundar and Ravindra Jadeja rescued the team with a game-saving 203-run partnership. Sundar demonstrated immense patience and grit to score his maiden Test century, finishing on an unbeaten 101, keeping the tourists in the contest.
• 53 vs. England (The Oval, 2025): Walking out to bat at 323 \7, he completely took the game away from the English bowlers, smashing a 46-ball 53. This explosive cameo helped set an insurmountable target, ultimately leading to a series-leveling victory. 

Just the first 2 and the last one have elevated him to one of most valuable players in the test test team. And the last one was less than a year ago. Not sure what else we need to see from him in tests. 

 

Edited May 26 by BacktoCricaddict

[BacktoCricaddict]

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

The ball that took out Brook at Lords was a peach. Also he thrice bowled Rachin in India with peach of deliv

Will never forget the drift on that one.

 

... Or was that the one to stokes?

Edited May 26 by BacktoCricaddict

[Lord]

He is perfect as 3rd spinner. Kotian is any good too

 

Our frontline spinner has to be a wrist spinner 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Lord said:

He is perfect as 3rd spinner. Kotian is any good too

 

Our frontline spinner has to be a wrist spinner 

You need mental stamina to be a good test spinners.  Jadeja and Ashwin had that. These guys lose the plot after a few wicketless overs.  If Sundar stays away from LOI formats he can become better spinner. He was much better than this . You pick up bad habits in shorter formats. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

Bowling prowess

 

 

Delightful watch. And this is from 2025, not 1947.

[cricspirit]

34 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

You guys are too harsh on him, forgetting the key contributions he has made to multiple test wins and saves.

 

Quick AI summary

 Over his 17-match Test career, he has compiled 885 runs at a stellar average of (42.14), frequently stepping up when the top order collapses and anchoring match-saving or series-defining lower-order partnerships. A chronological summary of his most notable clutch test innings:

• 62 vs. Australia (The Gabba, 2021): Thrust into the team for his debut in a series decider, he walked out with India reeling at (186 \6). He compiled a composed 62 and shared a crucial 123-run stand with Shardul Thakur, helping India avoid a massive first-innings deficit and paving the way for one of their most famous overseas victories.
• 22 (29) vs. Australia (Gabba) AI did not include his 4th inning contribution when he jumpstarted the chase with an audacious 6 off Cummins. Until then, we were in survival mode, but that 6 got Pant juiced up. He only made 20-odd but that was invaluable - one for the ages 
• 96 vs. England (Ahmedabad, 2021):* Showing his ability to bat with the tail, he played an agonizingly brilliant, unbeaten (96), shepherding the lower order to push India to a decisive first-innings lead in the final match of the series.
• 101 vs. England (Manchester, 2025):* In a critical draw during the Anderson-Tendulkar Trophy, Sundar and Ravindra Jadeja rescued the team with a game-saving 203-run partnership. Sundar demonstrated immense patience and grit to score his maiden Test century, finishing on an unbeaten 101, keeping the tourists in the contest.
• 53 vs. England (The Oval, 2025): Walking out to bat at 323 \7, he completely took the game away from the English bowlers, smashing a 46-ball 53. This explosive cameo helped set an insurmountable target, ultimately leading to a series-leveling victory. 

Just the first 2 and the last one have elevated him to one of most valuable players in the test test team. And the last one was less than a year ago. Not sure what else we need to see from him in tests. 

 

 

Question was  - Is he the best off spinner in India.

 

Nothing is asked about his batting. Everyone understands and agrees that he is a good batter for Tests. He has the tenacity for it and has made solid contributions with the bat his test career. 

 

This discussion is about his bowling.

 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

4 minutes ago, cricspirit said:

 

Question was  - Is he the best off spinner in India.

 

Nothing is asked about his batting. Everyone understands and agrees that he is a good batter for Tests. He has the tenacity for it and has made solid contributions with the bat his test career. 

 

This discussion is about his bowling.

 

 

There were a couple of posts up there in this thread attacking his batting. I felt compelled to respond :)

 

And I also posted a bowling video. So there ... 

Edited May 26 by BacktoCricaddict

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

You guys are too harsh on him, forgetting the key contributions he has made to multiple test wins and saves.

 

Quick AI summary

 Over his 17-match Test career, he has compiled 885 runs at a stellar average of (42.14), frequently stepping up when the top order collapses and anchoring match-saving or series-defining lower-order partnerships. A chronological summary of his most notable clutch test innings:

• 62 vs. Australia (The Gabba, 2021): Thrust into the team for his debut in a series decider, he walked out with India reeling at (186 \6). He compiled a composed 62 and shared a crucial 123-run stand with Shardul Thakur, helping India avoid a massive first-innings deficit and paving the way for one of their most famous overseas victories.
• 22 (29) vs. Australia (Gabba) AI did not include his 4th inning contribution when he jumpstarted the chase with an audacious 6 off Cummins. Until then, we were in survival mode, but that 6 got Pant juiced up. He only made 20-odd but that was invaluable - one for the ages 
• 96 vs. England (Ahmedabad, 2021):* Showing his ability to bat with the tail, he played an agonizingly brilliant, unbeaten (96), shepherding the lower order to push India to a decisive first-innings lead in the final match of the series.
• 101 vs. England (Manchester, 2025):* In a critical draw during the Anderson-Tendulkar Trophy, Sundar and Ravindra Jadeja rescued the team with a game-saving 203-run partnership. Sundar demonstrated immense patience and grit to score his maiden Test century, finishing on an unbeaten 101, keeping the tourists in the contest.
• 53 vs. England (The Oval, 2025): Walking out to bat at 323 \7, he completely took the game away from the English bowlers, smashing a 46-ball 53. This explosive cameo helped set an insurmountable target, ultimately leading to a series-leveling victory. 

Just the first 2 and the last one have elevated him to one of most valuable players in the test test team. And the last one was less than a year ago. Not sure what else we need to see from him in tests. 

 

 

 

FoEdgbaston 42 runs forging a partnership of 141 with GIll

MCG 51 when INdia was staring at follow on with 211/7  He forged 150 partnership with Nitish KUmar Reddy. Almost all his runs came in crunch situations. His contribution is more worthy than top order. Only Pant, Jaiswal have done better

 

For example. Kohli and SUndar have played 8 tests together

 

SUndar 8 tests 384 runs 42.66 avge

Kohli     8 tests  302 runs 23.23 avge

 

 

 

 

 

[Ultimate_Game]

Sundar is not a bowler anymore. At best he can be termed as a part-time occasional bowler in Tests. His bowling has dropped off steeply over the last couple of years.