G_B_ Posted August 25 Posted August 25 these smaller countries (barring NZ) cant seem to afford or be able to compete across formats.
tapandrun Posted August 25 Posted August 25 (edited) The ques. where are pak faster bowler , think pak has faster bowler who can crank-up pace in t20s , but are struggling to maintain pace in tests. The other issue here in the past pak never use to recycle pacer, once they are down on pace or not able to produce magic deliveries they would not last in the game for longer. Right now they keep recycling shaheen, naseem, rauf, Hasan ali even after losing the pace and the sting. this was never the case. Pak team would introduce new bowler and use them till they have sting. Thats is why pak may not have had a 200 test wkt takers but always had good high potential bowler. this is were pak was good at high potential bowlers. Sohail khan, Irfan, junaid, rahat...etc.. these all played till they had sting and once they lost it , they were never recycled Edited August 25 by tapandrun
deathmonger Posted August 26 Posted August 26 20 hours ago, zen said: Again trying to fit sports into a model that you know. Naah, you are the one trying to be contrarian by using exceptions. Arts/sports excellence is directly proportional to the wealth of a country.
zen Posted August 26 Posted August 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, deathmonger said: Naah, you are the one trying to be contrarian by using exceptions. Arts/sports excellence is directly proportional to the wealth of a country. Appears as if you are trying to convenience yourself! … The “theories” that you believe in are surface level. Lack of resources has been a traditional Indian excuse for not doing anything in almost any field. It is a cope out mechanism. Why Amrika is relatively clean? It is rich. Why Bollywood makes dumbed down films? The films are designed to cater to be no brainer for poor people coming in to escape their reality. Why garbage is everywhere? The municipality lacks resources. And so on. Over many decades, “lack of resources” has served as “ego-defensive mechanism” for many Indians. Now that “typical instinctive” excuse is being extended to explain Pakistan current struggles in cricket. Edited August 26 by zen
Sooda Posted August 26 Posted August 26 On 8/22/2026 at 2:23 PM, singhvivek141 said: Simple answer 1. No doctored "home" umpires 2. No bottle caps 3. Strict ICC regulations on illegal bowling action 4. Less chances of age fraud 5. No IPL (believe it or not, thats the biggest gripe they have). 6. Other Non Cricketing Reasons. All of this is nonsense
deathmonger Posted August 26 Posted August 26 7 hours ago, zen said: Appears as if you are trying to convenience yourself! … The “theories” that you believe in are surface level. Lack of resources has been a traditional Indian excuse for not doing anything in almost any field. It is a cope out mechanism. Why Amrika is relatively clean? It is rich. Why Bollywood makes dumbed down films? The films are designed to cater to be no brainer for poor people coming in to escape their reality. Why garbage is everywhere? The municipality lacks resources. And so on. Over many decades, “lack of resources” has served as “ego-defensive mechanism” for many Indians. Now that “typical instinctive” excuse is being extended to explain Pakistan current struggles in cricket. Again the example you gave supports my arguments. America is "clean" cause it is rich. Bollywood sucks because India is poor. As it is becoming rich, movies like Dhurandhar are being made (might not like the politics but can't deny the craft). All countries with thriving sports/arts scenes are rich countries. Poor ones don't have it. Over many decades, there was "lack of resources". India hardly grew until liberalization. Pakistan sports and arts are even worse than India cause they are poorer.
zen Posted August 26 Posted August 26 (edited) 34 minutes ago, deathmonger said: Again the example you gave supports my arguments. America is "clean" cause it is rich. Bollywood sucks because India is poor. As it is becoming rich, movies like Dhurandhar are being made (might not like the politics but can't deny the craft). All countries with thriving sports/arts scenes are rich countries. Poor ones don't have it. Over many decades, there was "lack of resources". India hardly grew until liberalization. Pakistan sports and arts are even worse than India cause they are poorer. That does not support your argument at all as one can make a great film on a budget (and many big budget films have flopped), an area can remain clean, etc. What is tells is that the immediate cope out is "lack of resources". Many Indians are conditioned to tailor that into their life so their immediate response to any issues is -> lack of resources. In fact, many Indians use the excuse of "lack of resources" to maintain status quo and not push themselves. Therefore, can India be like America? No, it lacks resources. Can India be like China? No, it lacks resources. Why is Pakistan currently struggling in test cricket? Lack of resources. It is as if it is an age old mantra to hide behind failures while preserving the ego (too difficult to identify that these folks are simply not good enough. And no amount of money can polish a turd. Putting a lipstick on a pig does not make it more beautiful). Most people in India would always look at the most generic explanation. Edited August 26 by zen
tapandrun Posted August 26 Posted August 26 On 8/22/2026 at 9:23 AM, singhvivek141 said: Simple answer 1. No doctored "home" umpires 2. No bottle caps 3. Strict ICC regulations on illegal bowling action 4. Less chances of age fraud 5. No IPL (believe it or not, thats the biggest gripe they have). 6. Other Non Cricketing Reasons. Do not think thats these are the answers. 1- This is the era of toughest pitches in home conditions, pak is also creating super dry and spinning wkts. 2- Bottle caps but how does that explain the lack of air speeds ? 3- Yes dodgy actions are no longer allowed 4- Intnl level is not about age limits, anyone can play. With t20 leagues there is no more need to playing u-19. 5- IPL has nothing to do with it The reasons could be for batting they are comparing a good batter to elite batters and believing in it. Rizwan, babar, Fakhhar .etc.. will they make it to any top side?? As for pace bowling they had bowlers who were clocking 140+ kmph few years back-- Shaheen, Naseem, Rauf .. were bowling 140+ kmph in white-ball. They got injured and lost the pace but still pak team is recycling the same bowlers, this never use to happen in the past, once the bowler lost their sting were dropped from the team fr good. Top cricketers do not want to play test cricket there is no incentive in it , if they are dropped from test there is no noise, but if they are dropped from white-ball there is huge noise about it. So test players are those who are not getting into white-ball teams, once someone makes to white-ball they do not want to play test cricket. But issue is even in white-ball its hard to make a place for new players-- older players are hanging to this format. Why air speeds are down ??? ---most pak bowlers comes from tape-tennis so they have skills and air-speed to bowl. Issue here is previously these bowler will have to take route of domestics to play fr pak. Now they wait for t20 trials be it clubs or psl sides and they may or may not get selected in psl team and no pak team. even when they get into psl teams , they do not go to domestic cricket and wait for next season and in between play some club cricket or some pcb tournament where they are picked from nowhere. Ind is also getting good/high-speed bowlers from the IPL net bowlers, the diff is ipl team have their own program plus once they get into ipl the route is still domestic , they need to play couple of domestic seasons and couple of ipls.
zen Posted August 26 Posted August 26 IIRC, Pak has not been that competitive in tests (against strong teams) once guys like MoYo and YK retired. Even when MoYo and YK were in the team, guys like Kamal Akmal used to mess up catches and stumping to make it more difficult for Pakistan. Strong SENA teams did not have too many issues against its attack especially with Asif and Amir getting banned. Many times, Pakistan used to have more or less similar squad for each format. Pakistan needs to start from scratch. Build a dedicated test team addressing the 3 Ts - talent, technique, and temperament. Leave the team alone from excessive scrutiny. There is no shame in losing especially in the rebuilding stage. At home, create sporting pitches, which eventually allows the team to play better cricket in most countries. Leave the stars to play the lucrative T20s. Draft solid players in tests.
deathmonger Posted August 27 Posted August 27 11 hours ago, zen said: That does not support your argument at all as one can make a great film on a budget (and many big budget films have flopped), an area can remain clean, etc. What is tells is that the immediate cope out is "lack of resources". Many Indians are conditioned to tailor that into their life so their immediate response to any issues is -> lack of resources. In fact, many Indians use the excuse of "lack of resources" to maintain status quo and not push themselves. Therefore, can India be like America? No, it lacks resources. Can India be like China? No, it lacks resources. Why is Pakistan currently struggling in test cricket? Lack of resources. It is as if it is an age old mantra to hide behind failures while preserving the ego (too difficult to identify that these folks are simply not good enough. And no amount of money can polish a turd. Putting a lipstick on a pig does not make it more beautiful). Most people in India would always look at the most generic explanation. In fact, many Indians use the excuse of "lack of resources" to maintain status quo and not push themselves. This argument simply fails because increasing resources has actually led Indians to "change" the status quo and "push themselves". Compare India of just 25 years ago to now.
zen Posted August 27 Posted August 27 8 hours ago, deathmonger said: In fact, many Indians use the excuse of "lack of resources" to maintain status quo and not push themselves. This argument simply fails because increasing resources has actually led Indians to "change" the status quo and "push themselves". Compare India of just 25 years ago to now. Again a generic point.
rtmohanlal Posted August 27 Posted August 27 because of basically 2 things ....non usage of bottle tops and home umpires in these multi camera days ...
vvvslaxman Posted August 27 Posted August 27 Abbas type of bowlers can be a vital cog if the other bowlers offered different things. Bit like how HOggard was part of the Flintoff, Harmsion, Simon jones unit.
putrevus Posted August 27 Posted August 27 Pakistan has many excuses for their decline, what excuse this bozo Gambhir has for his flop show.
zen Posted August 27 Posted August 27 (edited) Eng's high GDP ensured it whipped Pak. However, India's high GDP (though lower GDP per capita) than SL did not produce desirable results. Australia despite its relatively lower GDP (though higher GDP per capita) than Eng and Ind continues to top WTC charts, confusing GDP pundits. A lower GDP, BD sits across at a higher position than India on WTC table currently. However, since BD's GDP per capita = India's GDP per capita, the event is likely palatable. Edited August 27 by zen
deathmonger Posted August 27 Posted August 27 2 hours ago, zen said: Eng's high GDP ensured it whipped Pak. However, India's high GDP (though lower GDP per capita) than SL did not produce desirable results. Australia despite its relatively lower GDP (though higher GDP per capita) than Eng and Ind continues to top WTC charts, confusing GDP pundits. A lower GDP, BD sits across at a higher position than India on WTC table currently. However, since BD's GDP per capita = India's GDP per capita, the event is likely palatable. You are just being pedantic here. GDP/capita -> quality of life GDP/population -> total pool Both matter. However, India's high GDP (though lower GDP per capita) than SL did not produce desirable results. Ind won the series and has not lost a match to SL since 2015 (and a series since 2008) Australia despite its relatively lower GDP (though higher GDP per capita) than Eng and Ind continues to top WTC charts, confusing GDP pundits. Higher GDP per capita makes the point. Also cricket is more popular in Aus than Eng (both first world countries) A lower GDP, BD sits across at a higher position than India on WTC table currently. Purely due to fixtures. BD have never won a test against India in its history. And India don't get easy series vs Pak.
jf1gp_1 Posted August 28 Posted August 28 (edited) How stupid are Pakistanis ? We know they will never walk away. This drama has run its course no one is buying it anymore. https://www.cricinfo.com/story/eng-vs-pak-pcb-complains-to-sky-over-interview-with-imran-khan-s-sons-1551932 Edited August 28 by jf1gp_1 New guy 1
New guy Posted August 28 Posted August 28 (edited) 28 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said: How stupid are Pakistanis ? We know they will never walk away. This drama has run its course no one is buying it anymore. https://www.cricinfo.com/story/eng-vs-pak-pcb-complains-to-sky-over-interview-with-imran-khan-s-sons-1551932 A Pakistani match without at least 3 embarrassing drama, is considered a dull affair Edited August 28 by New guy
zen Posted August 28 Posted August 28 11 hours ago, deathmonger said: You are just being pedantic here. GDP/capita -> quality of life GDP/population -> total pool Both matter. However, India's high GDP (though lower GDP per capita) than SL did not produce desirable results. Ind won the series and has not lost a match to SL since 2015 (and a series since 2008) Australia despite its relatively lower GDP (though higher GDP per capita) than Eng and Ind continues to top WTC charts, confusing GDP pundits. Higher GDP per capita makes the point. Also cricket is more popular in Aus than Eng (both first world countries) A lower GDP, BD sits across at a higher position than India on WTC table currently. Purely due to fixtures. BD have never won a test against India in its history. And India don't get easy series vs Pak. Keep up with your comedy!
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