Era of aggressive Test fields over - Dhoni

[vvvslaxman]

IMO' date=' many times, Dhoni captains a test match like an ODI match. His first instinct is to stop quick runs, not necessarily take wickets.[/quote'] That is true.

[The Outsider]

^ No one is asking Dhoni to keep 3-4 slip fielders, but in Indian conditions for pace bowlers you must be willing to keep a catching cover and mid wicket at the least. Not only would you get the occasional catches there, but you will also force the batsman to change his game while he is playing defensive shots. For spinners, you must have a strong inner ring to cut off easy singles unless the batsman is well set and is comfortably playing the lofted shots. Against weak players of spin like the Australians Dhoni's tactics worked because they were not adept at rotating the strike. Better players of spin like Cook, Pietersen, Amla, Kallis have made a mockery out of his field settings by milking the spinners like a Jersey cow.

[vvvslaxman]

^ No one is asking Dhoni to keep 3-4 slip fielders, but in Indian conditions for pace bowlers you must be willing to keep a catching cover and mid wicket at the least. Not only would you get the occasional catches there, but you will also force the batsman to change his game while he is playing defensive shots. For spinners, you must have a strong inner ring to cut off easy singles unless the batsman is well set and is comfortably playing the lofted shots. Against weak players of spin like the Australians Dhoni's tactics worked because they were not adept at rotating the strike. Better players of spin like Cook, Pietersen, Amla, Kallis have made a mockery out of his field settings by milking the spinners like a Jersey cow.

Cook despite his monumental series has limited strokes against spinners. He is no azharuddin who would twist his wrists like rubber to play from outside leg stump to covers. He just plays the line. It was not that hard to block him out.

[zep1706]

lots of nonsensical comments on this thread somebody saying "worst captain in Test cricket" - really?? Abe BKLs he might not be the best ever but considering what he gets as bowlers do you really think he can have 9 fielders around the bat?? chewtiyas :finger:

Well I said one of the worst test captains that I have seen and I mean it. He's pretty good in ODIs though.

[adi B]

Well I said one of the worst test captains that I have seen and I mean it. He's pretty good in ODIs though.

pretty much abroad

[The Outsider]

Cook despite his monumental series has limited strokes against spinners. He is no azharuddin who would twist his wrists like rubber to play from outside leg stump to covers. He just plays the line. It was not that hard to block him out.

Exactly. And the same is true for Kallis as well. Amla and Pietersen, yes, are adept at piercing gaps and playing unconventional strokes but even for them putting sweepers out so early on makes no sense. With Cook and Kallis you can block them off with smart field placings on Indian tracks which do offer a bit of turn most of the time. I still can never get Cape Town out of my head when Kallis was put under pressure and reverse swept Harbhajan out of the rough from outside off. Bhajji immediately started darting on middle and leg. Any good captain would have been thrilled seeing Kallis play that stroke - no batsman I've seen can keep reverse sweeping from the rough without making a mistake. But we went on the defensive and lost the opportunity to win a series in South Africa.

[ravishingravi]

^Yup. He is up there with the worst abroad definitely.

[rkt.india]

Exactly. And the same is true for Kallis as well. Amla and Pietersen, yes, are adept at piercing gaps and playing unconventional strokes but even for them putting sweepers out so early on makes no sense. With Cook and Kallis you can block them off with smart field placings on Indian tracks which do offer a bit of turn most of the time. I still can never get Cape Town out of my head when Kallis was put under pressure and reverse swept Harbhajan out of the rough from outside off. Bhajji immediately started darting on middle and leg. Any good captain would have been thrilled seeing Kallis play that stroke - no batsman I've seen can keep reverse sweeping from the rough without making a mistake. But we went on the defensive and lost the opportunity to win a series in South Africa.

Easier said than done when your bowlers cannot bowl according to field and give one boundary ball every over, every captain will try to save boundary.

[I6MTW]

So the Era of Defensive test fields has begun then?

[The Outsider]

Easier said than done when your bowlers cannot bowl according to field and give one boundary ball every over' date=' every captain will try to save boundary.[/quote'] That wasn't the case at Cape Town. Bhajji was bowling really well and South Africa were under pressure at 4 down for 50-60 when Kallis started reverse sweeping. It took only 3-4 overs and 3-4 reverse sweeps for Bhajji to start darting, and kaptaan to encourage the darting. It's only a matter of time before someone gets out reverse sweeping from the rough. What's the worst that could have happened? Kallis score a century and India had to bat out day 5. Well that happened anyway without even giving ourselves the chance to pick up Kallis with darts.

[adi B]

Easier said than done when your bowlers cannot bowl according to field and give one boundary ball every over' date=' every captain will try to save boundary.[/quote'] batting @8 to save a test and hitting a ton even on a flattish track is easier said than done rather deserves a lot of accolades

[rkt.india]

That wasn't the case at Cape Town. Bhajji was bowling really well and South Africa were under pressure at 4 down for 50-60 when Kallis started reverse sweeping. It took only 3-4 overs and 3-4 reverse sweeps for Bhajji to start darting, and kaptaan to encourage the darting. It's only a matter of time before someone gets out reverse sweeping from the rough. What's the worst that could have happened? Kallis score a century and India had to bat out day 5. Well that happened anyway without even giving ourselves the chance to pick up Kallis with darts.

I was talking about in general, not just that instance. There were certainly a lot of things went wrong in that tour from selection to strategies.

[philcric]

I still can never get Cape Town out of my head when Kallis was put under pressure and reverse swept Harbhajan out of the rough from outside off. Bhajji immediately started darting on middle and leg. Any good captain would have been thrilled seeing Kallis play that stroke - no batsman I've seen can keep reverse sweeping from the rough without making a mistake. But we went on the defensive and lost the opportunity to win a series in South Africa.

I was thinking about the same match today morning. One of the great opportunities missed. SA were 70-4 and then 130-6 and added 200+ more for the last 4 wickets with an injured Kalllis and out of form Boucher. Remember those reverse sweeps, and field spreading after just 1-2 boundaries, 1 of the fielders protecting 3rd man boundary for reverse sweeps :facepalm:

[The Outsider]

I was talking about in general' date=' not just that instance. There were certainly a lot of things went wrong in that tour from selection to strategies.[/quote'] When bowlers are delivering crap any captain would spread out the field and no one would complain, at least not me. Dhoni puts in defensive fields even when the bowlers are bowling well. Happened even in the just concluded England and Australia series - the difference being England had adept batsmen to make use of the foolishness and Australian batsmen played like they would struggle to rotate the strike even if all 9 men were on the boundary.

[The Outsider]

I was thinking about the same match today morning. One of the great opportunities missed. SA were 70-4 and then 130-6 and added 200+ more for the last 4 wickets with an injured Kalllis and out of form Boucher. Remember those reverse sweeps, and field spreading after just 1-2 boundaries, 1 of the fielders protecting 3rd man boundary for reverse sweeps :facepalm:

That really took the cake. It's still within realms of imagination that Dhoni and Bhajji decided Kallis is playing the reverse sweep so well that they started operating the middle and leg line. But then why the frack do you need a thirdman to protect the reverse sweep. At least use that fielder in the inner ring on the on side. :facepalm:

[rkt.india]

batting @8 to save a test and hitting a ton even on a flattish track is easier said than done rather deserves a lot of accolades

Prior had a partnership first with Bell who is a specialist batsman and England have a better #9 in Broad. It is credit to Broad who consumed 77 balls to draw the match with Prior. People are talking he alone played half of the overs. He only played 182 balls out of 858 balls England played. Similar situation, India were 196 for 4 when Dhoni entered with last recognized batting pair playing with Kohli on the other end, build a steady partenership but when we were just 26 runs ahead of Aus we lost out 8th wicket when BK came into bat at #9 on a track which had deteriorated a lot, he shielded BK first and took most strike himself initially and still scored runs and indulged in a record breaking 9th wicket partnership to take India's lead close to 200. Australia scored 241 in second innings. Imagine if we only had a lead of 40-50 in first innings, we might have to chase close to 200 in 4th innings and the way pitch was behaving, the result might have been exactly opposite. Yes, Prior's innings is great, I am not demeaning that, but Dhoni's innings was match turning, in fact, series turning on track which was not getting easier even survive let alone stroke making. That inning instilled a great self belief in this young team. Even the biggest of Indian fan cricket had never expected a 4-0 result after seeing how they had played against England, but it was this inning which changed every thing for this team.

[Marut]

I don't think Dhoni's field placings are too bad for the Indian bowler's calibre. They are not very good either. I would like to see Dhoni attack more when we play away. Some times too many easy runs are gifted away and when Clarke and Ponting were making mountains of runs, Dhoni was trying to do nothing, waiting for a mistake from their side or a declaration. Not that any of those strategies would have worked, but some times he just goes through the motions.

[Laaloo]

You should have seen the pathetic field placements he employed at Centurion when ABD was batting. They scored so freaking fast and Dhoni kept on bowling Raina. What did he give up? 77 runs in like 10 overs? That ensured that SAF batted really fast and had more time to bowl us out.

[FischerTal]

MSD's mentality of "lets make sure we dont lose and then try to chase a win" is the biggest problem :wall:

[rkt.india]

MSD's mentality of "lets make sure we dont lose and then try to chase a win" is the biggest problem :wall:

Because if they lose you will be the first person demanding Dhoni to be beheaded.:winky: