Best Indian batsmen overseas

[Marut]

Regarding Gavaskar and Sachin comparison. It is difficult to choose one, but Gavaskar's extraordinary record against the WI is a little over rated. Gavaskar piled a lot of runs against WI when the WI team did not have the best bowlers in the team. ---------- During his first series against WI in 1971, Gavaskar scored 774 at 154.80. But this WI was not a pace battery - the bowlers in the series were Boyce, Shillingford, Holder, Sobers and Gibbs. As you can note, Gibbs was an excellent spinner and the rest of the bowlers are not legendary pace bowlers. In the 74/75 home series, Gavaskar scored only 108 runs at 27 against an attack spearheaded by the young and fiery Andy Roberts. In 75/76 away series, Gavaskar did very well with 390 runs at 55. But WI attack was still not the four pronged pace attack, though Roberts and Holding were there and they did not figure together in all the matches. 78/79 home series in India saw a weak WI team due to the Packer series. No Roberts, Holding or Garner and Gavaskar plundered 732 at 91 in a very high scoring series. 82/83 series away series, 240 runs at 30.0 against a very good bowling side. Nothing extraordinary though. 83 home series Gavaskar took a heavy toll on a good WI attack, though some of the tracks were very flat and high scoring. Overall, the verdict is that Gavaskar did very well against WI, but Gavaskar did not play a strong WI side between 76 to 82. The argument that Gavaskar always faced strong bowlers is a complete myth. For me, Tendulkar edges Gavaskar, but not by a big margin.

[vamos_rafa]

West Indies - Dravid ( Tendulkar skipped missed a series which we won and then skipped a series which we won recently) South Africa - Tendulkar by a longshot. Dravid struggled mightily in South Africa especially against good bowling attacks. England - Dravid and Tendulkar for me were equal until last tour but dravid's awesome series puts him ahead by a good margin Australia - Tendulkar NZ - Tendulkar. Dravid struggled a lot in that 2002-03 series

Dravid had a very poor tour to England in '07. Sachin, though averaged around 40 but played 2 very crucial innings in very tough conditions. Though Ganguly was our best batsman on the tour, but out of RD and SRT, SRT was better.

[Laaloo]

^^ That's why I said until last tour. Sachin would have averaged higher that tour if he wasnt wrongly given out on 91. Dravid had a really good 2011 tour and that for me puts him ahead

[adi B]

simon taufel :whack:

[Raghav_12]

He was highest run getter for India in 1996 test series in SA. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?id=380;type=series

My bad. I read it as 2006 tour.

[rkt.india]

My bad. I read it as 2006 tour.

I had said he has moderate records since 2006 SA tour on most tours outside SC.

[saneindian]

You have missed on NZ series and Eng series which Sachin played before Aus in 91. When you say after 96, Sachin had Dravid's support, how many series we are talking about? This is overall list of series that India played since Sachin debut to 2000. NZ (90) - Sachin - Average Rahul - NO Saurav - No Eng (90) - Sachin - Success Rahul - NO Saurav - No Aus (91) - Sachin - Success Rahul - NO Saurav - No SA (92) - Sachin - Success Rahul - NO Saurav - No Eng (96) - Sachin Success, Rahul - Average, Saurav - Success SA (96) - Sachin success Rahul - Success Saurav - average WI (97) - Sachin - Success, Rahul - Success - Saurav - Poor NZ (98) Sachin - Sucess, Rahul - Success Saurav Success Aus 99 Sachin - Success, Rahul - Poor Saurav - Poor Your assertion that saurav started providing support in overseas test matches doesn't stand scrutiny of numbers. Rahul did but not much and Sachin played lot of cricket outside SC before Rahul and Saurav arrived. There hadn't been a single tour outside SC, other than NZ 02-03, until recent Eng tour where Sachin failed. Probably you can count 2006 SA series, but there Dravid failed even more miserably.

Your criteria of average and success looks a little amusing. You call Dravid as being average in England when his scores were 95, 84 and 8, a series avg of 60+. Similarly for SA 96, you say Sachin was a success, had scores of 16, 4, 169, 9, 35, 9 at best an average series slightly better than Dada who had scores of 16, 0, 23, 30, 8, 73, 60. 241 runs in the series vs 202 runs..but one is a success, other an average performer! In any case, the point was Sachin wasn't a lone ranger in the 90s away from home, there were others who were contributing as well. A 169 vs SA had Azhar hitting a 100, if Saurav failed in WI in 97, Sidhu stepped up. I am not counting the away series in early part of Sachin's career as that was definitely not his peak. The peak started from 95-96 till around 2002. As I said, Aus 99 was the only series where everyone else but Sachin failed

[BeautifulGame]

Your criteria of average and success looks a little amusing. You call Dravid as being average in England when his scores were 95, 84 and 8, a series avg of 60+. Similarly for SA 96, you say Sachin was a success, had scores of 16, 4, 169, 9, 35, 9 at best an average series slightly better than Dada who had scores of 16, 0, 23, 30, 8, 73, 60. 241 runs in the series vs 202 runs..but one is a success, other an average performer! In any case, the point was Sachin wasn't a long ranger in the 90s away from home, there were others who were contributing as well. A 169 vs SA had Azhar hitting a 100, if Saurav failed in WI in 97, Sidhu stepped up. I am not counting the away series in early part of Sachin's career as that was definitely not his peak. The peak started from 95-96 till around 2002. As I said, Aus 99 was the only series where everyone else but Sachin failed

The bigger issue was bowling. Kumble stepped up massively in 2000s which made a massive difference to our away form.

[saneindian]

The bigger issue was bowling. Kumble stepped up massively in 2000s which made a massive difference to our away form.

Of course it was. But we are discussing batting and not why we couldn't win away from home in 90s.

[BeautifulGame]

Of course it was. But we are discussing batting and not why we couldn't win away from home in 90s.

Misunderstood fair enough:two_thumbs_up:

[putrevus]

so what is Sachin's defining innings overseas in 95 plus tests, it need not be a hundred.

[harmuk]

Laxman was very poor in England thru out, Dravid was poor in SA and Australia, he had one good series in Australia that too when they had the most flat pitches and worst bowling attack. Mohinder had one great series so you cannot really put him up there.But boy he was awesome in 1983. It has to be between Sachin and Sunny. Sunny wins because he faced better bowlers thru out his career.

Not true. Laxman was not poor thru out in England. Despite the dismal 2011 tour, his average is close to 35 in England which hardly qualifies as poor. Excepting the last tour of Eng., he never got a chance to bat above No.6 in the prior 2002 and 2007 tours, where the opportunities to score big are minimised. On the same scale Dravid in fact has a sub-30 average in SA, which can be considered poor all things taken into account.

[Laaloo]

so what is Sachin's defining innings overseas in 95 plus tests' date=' it need not be a hundred.[/quote'] 169 146

[harmuk]

Dravid had a very poor tour to England in '07. Sachin' date=' though averaged around 40 but played 2 very crucial innings in very tough conditions. Though Ganguly was our best batsman on the tour, but out of RD and SRT, SRT was better.[/quote']Ganguly was not our best batsman, as there were no standout performers with the bat in that series. VVS and MSD did marginally better than Ganguly average wise. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/engvind/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=2872;team=6;type=series

[saneindian]

119 at Oval to save a test, 114 at Perth as a 19 yr old, 111 out of team total of 225 at Jo'burg vs Donald, Pringle, Matthews and Mcmillan, 122 out of team total of 200 odd in a test in England in 96, 169 vs SA to list a few ..not sure if any of these knocks fit into the 'defining innings' criteria

[putrevus]

I am particularly talking about the bowling support Tendulkar had. Here is India's win record away for the nineties. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;orderby=won;spanmax1=31+Dec+1999;spanmin1=01+Jan+1990;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team Note how pathetic India was in the 90s, even below Sri lanka , New Zealand and Zimbabew for away matches, winning just one match for the whole decade. Even Zimb had W/L of 0.09 , higher than India. Sachin was the lone jewel that shone between 1990-96. He had support between 97-99 but our bowlers failed to step up and we did not win a single overseas match apart from the one win against SL in 93.

they asked our batsmen to chase 120 odd runs to win a series essentially in WI in 1997 which should not too much to ask , but what did all the mighty batsmen with Sachin included do they got out to magnificent 80 odd runs When your batsmen collapse to 66 all out you don't give bowlers much chance. Bowling was not that better in 2000s it is just batting showed some spine.

[harmuk]

Since this is a thread about the best Indian batsman overseas, I was specifically looking into how the best Indian batsman contributed in abroad wins out-side of the sub-continent (SA, Aus, Eng, WI and NZ) in its history. Not surprisingly RD and VVS finished one two in the total number of runs scored in the wins, and also the top two in total number of scores of fifty or more in those wins. SRT and SMG finished third and fourth respectively in that category. And the so called all-time great Sehwag has no contribution whatsoever, in any of those famous wins he is a part of with 0 scores of fifty or more with a less than 25 average. Below link shows the peformances in wins abroad outside of the sub-continent of Indian batsman. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;orderby=runs;result=1;team=6;template=results;type=batting

[vamos_rafa]

Ganguly was not our best batsman, as there were no standout performers with the bat in that series. VVS and MSD did marginally better than Ganguly average wise. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/engvind/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=2872;team=6;type=series

Oops. You're right.

[ravishingravi]

Dravid easily for me.

[diga]

Since this is a thread about the best Indian batsman overseas, I was specifically looking into how the best Indian batsman contributed in abroad wins out-side of the sub-continent (SA, Aus, Eng, WI and NZ) in its history. Not surprisingly RD and VVS finished one two in the total number of runs scored in the wins, and also the top two in total number of scores of fifty or more in those wins. SRT and SMG finished third and fourth respectively in that category. And the so called all-time great Sehwag has no contribution whatsoever, in any of those famous wins he is a part of with 0 scores of fifty or more with a less than 25 average. Below link shows the peformances in wins abroad outside of the sub-continent of Indian batsman. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;orderby=runs;result=1;team=6;template=results;type=batting

public remembers our best batsman overseas based on their contribution to wins.. Dravid hands down there. Purely based on technique/consistency of performance SMG is ahead of RD/VVS/SRT for me