Spin cupboard bare in Ranji Trophy too

[cowboysfan]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/domestic-cricket/ranji-trophy/Spin-cupboard-bare-in-Ranji-Trophy-too/articleshow/29730180.cms NEW DELHI: With India's frontline spinners struggling to make a mark on pitches not tailor-made for spin, it's worth noting that the art of slow bowling seems to be fading in India's domestic cricket scene too. Spinners have consistently failed to make much of an impact in tournaments like the Ranji Trophy, with only one spinner - a new face every time - having made it each year to the top-five wicket-takers' list in the past four domestic seasons. The number of outright results in the Ranji Trophy have increased by more than 10% this season but seamers have played the bigger role, and maybe curators can claim credit for preparing pitches which aid seam bowling. Spin legend Erapalli Prasanna, however, says a spinner cannot depend on the surface to succeed. "You cannot depend on how the pitch looks to succeed as a spinner. Earlier, our spinners used to scare batsmen, much like the West Indies pacers of old. That is now lacking among our spinners," Prasanna told TOI, adding that there was a need to produce quality spinners. "Why can't the BCCI hire me or Bishan Bedi as spin consultants? I guess they think we are too old. Amit Mishra, Ravindra Jadeja and Piyush Chawla came to me while training at the NCA for 10 days last year and Jadeja improved dramatically after that. If 10 days of guidance can do so much for him, then regular consultation can revive spin bowling in the country. Seam rules Ranji wicket-takers' list Ranji Trophy 2013-14 (as on January 29) Bowler For M Wickets Ave. Best 5WI 10WM SR Rishi Dhawan HP 8 49 20.30 5/29 6 1 42.0 Anureet Singh Railways 8 44 17.56 5/52 5 - 47.4 Ashok Dinda Bengal 9 40 25.97 7/82 2 1 53.0 Pankaj Singh Rajasthan 8 39 22.46 5/30 3 - 48.7 Vishal Dabholkar* Mumbai 9 39 26.76 6/38 1 1 54.2 Ranji Trophy 2012-13 Bowler For M Wickets Ave. Best 5WI 10WM SR Ishwar Pandey MP 8 48 21.06 6/54 5 1 43.4 Siddarth Kaul Punjab 9 44 23.79 6/63 2 - 46.0 Suraj Yadav Services 10 43 21.90 7/71 2 - 56.0 Shahbaz Nadeem* Jharkhand 9 42 25.97 6/54 2 - 58.9 Sandeep Sharma Punjab 9 41 19.41 7/25 3 1 43.3 *Spinners "You have to pick a bunch of spinners along with the Mishras and Chawlas and have faith in them to develop into strike bowlers," Prasanna said, adding that Ashwin and Jadeja were "more batting all-rounders than natural spinners". The ongoing Ranji Trophy final is an indication that the art of spin is on the decline, feels Prasanna. "Watching the final has disappointed me. The pitch looked conducive to spin even on the second day but the bowling was pathetic. A good spinner would have managed to get at least three-four wickets. State associations need to encourage spinners." Former India opener Aakash Chopra pointed out: "The SG Test balls swing almost the entire day and with pitches also improving, teams prefer to field an extra seamer unless you have a high-quality spinner. Spinners have become more of a stop-gap arrangement who bowl faster and flatter. "The sad reality is spin bowling is on the decline. We took it for granted that quality spinners would automatically come up the ranks. As we saw against England at home on rank turners, our batsmen also aren't getting any better at playing quality spin. The only time spinners made an impact in this Ranji season were on dust bowls in the last round of league matches in Tamil Nadu and Gujarat," Chopra said. Former India left-arm spinner Maninder Singh said, "The other day Ashwin said his job is to contain in foreign conditions. Weren't Shane Warne and Muttiah Muralitharan successful in those conditions? Didn't Anil Kumble and Harbhajan Singh strengthen India's bowling abroad? Spinners can't afford to retreat. These days, spinners are seen as players who can block the flow of runs for some overs and score quickfire 30s and 40s." Is too much T20 cricket leading to this defensive mindset among spinners? "Good spin bowling in T20 cricket has always paid off. It's the mentality at the age-group levels. Too much of T20 is played at under-12 and under-14 levels. The under-19 spinners should try to avoid this version," said Chopra. Maninder, however, remains optimistic. "I'm sure the board will come up with an endeavour to save the art of spin bowling. Former spinners are ready to help in any capacity. The Anil Kumbles and Ravi Shastris will have to play a bigger role. The Ranji teams along with the state associations too will have to be more positive about using a spinner." -------------------------------------------------- I have been saying this forever,even more alarming than the lack of fast bowlers is the lack of good new spinners coming through the ranjis.It will be very difficult to win home test matches without good spinners and we already saw this against england when Ashwin **** the bed.BCCI seems more worried about raking in the money than developing bowlers,we are in for a prolonged bad time for home series too if we cant bring in new spinners to compete because Ashwin's days are numbered.

[Muloghonto]

People also suffer these days from a skewed vision of what a spinner is. The last 20 years have been dominated by unconventional spinners, which has skewed our perspective of spin bowling. We think of successful spin bowlers and we think Shane Warne, Anil Kumble, Muttiah Muralitharan and to a lesser extent, Saqlain, Harbhajan, Ajmal. Yet, all these guys are atypical spinners, not the norm. Warne got prodigious turn to his leg breaks, Murali came with prodigious control and turn both ways, Kumble had his freakish 'spitting cobra' top spinner and the slider, Saqqi, harby and Ajmal all relied on concealment of their 'mystery delivery', aka the doosra ( saqqi lost effectiveness when his concealment was worked out). These guys and their stunning success made us think that spinners need prodigious spin/vicious uneven bounce (kumble) or the mystery ball (doosra) to succeed. Or else, in this day of heavy bats, shorter boundaries and frentic scoring, spinners better contain and pray for the best. But we forget that *most* spinners in history didnt come with these atypical and freakish skills. Bedi was not much different from Jadeja in terms of how much his balls spun, had an arm ball and thats it. Chandra was freakish (kumble type) but Prasanna had more in common with Graeme Swann and Ravi Ashwin than the Muralis, Saqlains and Ajmals of the world. Same with Rajinder Goel, Jim Laker, Alf Valentine, Sonny Ramdhin and Lance Gibbs. For leggies, its not Shane Warne or Anil Kumble that are the average prototypes, its the Abdul Qadirs, Mushie, Kanerias of the world who are the typical ones. And spinners today have forgotten that flight- loop & dip are extremely effective at countering any surface, subtle changes in pace and turn are just as deadly as big rippers, that the biggest weapon a spinner has, is his mind. To think out a batsman is a spinner's job. And until we can foster the type of thinking and outlook needed to succeed as a spinner with modest turn & no mystery ball, we are not going to succeed very well at home. Unless ofcourse, one of those mystery ball/huge turning spinner shows up.

[MCcricket]

All this cupboard is bare business is bull **** and I hate hearing that excuse, India has a lot of players in their domestic setup and we have decent spinners like Nadeem, Bhatt, Gopal, Malolan, Jakati, it is the failure of selectors who wasted last two years when we were dominating at home and they did not try out any players , see what NZ, Australia, Eng are doing, Dhoni is unwilling to play anyone outside his favorites and selectors especially Sreekant and co caused the rot.NZ found Milne, and three other players in this series alone because they did the right things by getting new blood.

[jf1gp_1]

In Mishra and Ojha we have two decent spinners if only the two actually got a longish run at international level.

[Marut]

Fully agree with our spinners needing some expert help. But there is some hype here. If former spinners were consistently as deadly as they claim to be, then armed with several quality spinners, India would have won most home matches in the 60s and 70s. That isn't true at all. Were our spinners good at spin regardless of the surface? If yes, then why is India's overseas W/L record for the 60s and 70s as low as 0.36, the lowest among all major nations except New Zealand? India did not win consistently even at home, where wickets were spin friendly. I call this just hype. The Indian team of the 2000s was better than any Indian team of the past, because it could walk the walk. This team is currently going through a transition and some ups and downs are to be expected, in all aspects.

[coffee_rules]

case in point, Ranji Finals. Karntake played out the seamers and then took their chances with spinners. I think most of the batsmen are getting good at playing safely against trundlers while take risks with the spinners. Hence the spinners' numbers are off in RT.

[Indya_Rocks]

Why are we ignoring Akshay Darekar, he is easily being the bets young spinner but being ignored because he is from Maharashtra. Be taking a look at his stats please: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ranji-trophy-2013-14/content/player/427714.html Just few match ago, he took 6 against very strong Assam side http://www.espncricinfo.com/ranji-trophy-2013-14/engine/match/649371.html

[rkt.india]

In Mishra and Ojha we have two decent spinners if only the two actually got a longish run at international level.

Please stop counting Mishra. He is rubbish.

[diga]

Why are we ignoring Akshay Darekar, he is easily being the bets young spinner but being ignored because he is from Maharashtra. Be taking a look at his stats please: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ranji-trophy-2013-14/content/player/427714.html Just few match ago, he took 6 against very strong Assam side http://www.espncricinfo.com/ranji-trophy-2013-14/engine/match/649371.html

yeah right.. Assam is the benchmark of Indian batting. To be fair, Darekar's perormance against Group A/B teams from quarters was mediocre..nothing to write about. Lets see what he does next year when he plays against much stronger teams in the first division

[Muloghonto]

Fully agree with our spinners needing some expert help. But there is some hype here. If former spinners were consistently as deadly as they claim to be, then armed with several quality spinners, India would have won most home matches in the 60s and 70s. That isn't true at all. Were our spinners good at spin regardless of the surface? If yes, then why is India's overseas W/L record for the 60s and 70s as low as 0.36, the lowest among all major nations except New Zealand? India did not win consistently even at home, where wickets were spin friendly. I call this just hype. The Indian team of the 2000s was better than any Indian team of the past, because it could walk the walk. This team is currently going through a transition and some ups and downs are to be expected, in all aspects.

The reason we didnt win much more often at home in the pre 2000s is because there were no minimum overs to be bowled per day in tests and it was much much easier to draw tests back in the day due to time wasting. Take a look at the West Indies team of the 80s and the Aussies of the 90s-early 2000s. You will see far less draws in the Aussie record, this despite the West Indies having many more under 25 average bowlers operating than the Aussies in their period of dominance. Test matches became a lot more result oriented since the late 90s when they instituted minimum overs per day rule. Before that, if one team was struggling, you could bet they'd bowl 70 overs the next day to the other team, gearing for a draw. If the likes of Gupte, Mankad, Bedi, Chandra, Prasanna, Venkat, Doshi etc. bowled in an era of mandatory 90 overs per day, we'd have won a lot more at home.

[Sooda]

They seem to be a few one season wonders- Bhagrav Bhatt and Darekar being two recent examples. Wonder why these guys can not sustain their performances for a few seasons. Also Ladda the leggie was supposed to be a decent bowler

[kruiser]

Batting techniques and especially teh bats themselves have evolved so much that slow spin and turn can easily be covered, average to good balls can be hit or edged for fours. Turn, loop & dip worked when the edges carried to the close in fielders, not like now when mishits go for sixes! Need to accept the fact that cricket has evolved a lot and the spinners playing today have come up the ranks - surely they are intelligent enough to figure out what will be most effective fpr them? Going back to plain finger spinning will simply get the massacred.. Today you need either spitting big spinning deliveries or uncertainty of which ball will turn which way to succeed. Apart from this, all other spinners will have to resort to fast top spinners and arm balls to be good in containing role only.

[shortbread]

As long as they dont replace Ashwin with Bhajji!! Kick them both out but please dont swap and change $h!t with cr@p and vice versa. If we dont get the next Warne or Murali I am content with a multi dimensional player filling the gap. Someone who is good with the bat and on the field. Similar to Jadeja but far more consistent with the bat a.k.a and all rounder spinner!!

[Marut]

The reason we didnt win much more often at home in the pre 2000s is because there were no minimum overs to be bowled per day in tests and it was much much easier to draw tests back in the day due to time wasting. Take a look at the West Indies team of the 80s and the Aussies of the 90s-early 2000s. You will see far less draws in the Aussie record, this despite the West Indies having many more under 25 average bowlers operating than the Aussies in their period of dominance. Test matches became a lot more result oriented since the late 90s when they instituted minimum overs per day rule. Before that, if one team was struggling, you could bet they'd bowl 70 overs the next day to the other team, gearing for a draw. If the likes of Gupte, Mankad, Bedi, Chandra, Prasanna, Venkat, Doshi etc. bowled in an era of mandatory 90 overs per day, we'd have won a lot more at home.

We can easily argue that the "draw logic" applies to the team India played against. How many games were drawn when the opposition could have won if they had 90 overs in hand? India spinners of the 60s and 70s had strike rates in the thereabouts of 90-100, and these guys could not have won a lot of matches even with more overs.

[tweaker]

Australlia has given a chance to rookie leg spinner in the T20 against England.Idont know why the Indian selectors does the same.Why were new spinners ie Rasool,Shahbaz Nadeen,JalajSaxena,were given a chance in the home odi series

[BlackMamba]

What happened to Harmeet singh ? Anybody ?

[Iconoclast]

Look at the successful spinners around the world lately - Swann, Ajmal, Herath, Rehman ... all older guys ... maybe India should be trying out more experienced and crafty spinners ?

[Muloghonto]

We can easily argue that the "draw logic" applies to the team India played against. How many games were drawn when the opposition could have won if they had 90 overs in hand? India spinners of the 60s and 70s had strike rates in the thereabouts of 90-100' date=' and these guys could not have won a lot of matches even with more overs.[/quote'] Your argument does not take away from the fact that when India took a commanding lead in the 1st innings or started building an unsurmountable total in the 2nd, visiting teams would waste time by the galore, sometimes bowling only 60 overs in a day. You cannot win a test match if you run out of time. Your charge was, Indian spinenrs of the past were a bit overhyped because they couldn't win as often as you'd expect them to. That charge is negated by the time-wasting tactics of the opposition. yes, India denied the others victory too by wasting time. Does not take away from the fact that Indian spinners won a lot less too due to the time wasting of the opposition. Strike rates are not the end-all, be-all for being a strike bowler. Because strike rates are fundamentally depedent on whether the batsmen are taking chances against you or not. If my team bowled 130 overs in 2 days for your team to set a 4th innings target of 300 runs by the 5th day lunch, I'd ask my batsmen to block every single delivery except a long hop or a half volley, because winning is impossible and therefore, I should make losing impossible too. So what do you get when batsmen end up at 100/2 after 80 overs because they blocked everything ? a bloated strike rate. Does not mean you are not capable of taking wickets. If every single batsman approached batting like Jason Gillespie did (block,block,block,block,block,block, four,block,block,block,block,block.etc), then every spinner would have a 80+ strike rate too.

[virufan]

In Mishra and Ojha we have two decent spinners if only the two actually got a longish run at international level.

There is always a tendency to go for the allrounder, Jaddu, so Ojha is almost invariably left out. Outside India, since it is a better option to go with seamers, Mishra will also miss out.