All time Asian test XI

[Muloghonto]

There can be many, many permutations IMO. Here's one:

 

Gavaskar

Sehwag

Dravid

Tendulkar

Miandad

Imran Khan *

Sangakkara+

Kapil Dev/Waqar Younis/Bishen Bedi/Vinoo Mankad (depending on pitch/opposition)

Wasim Akram

Anil Kumble

Muttiah Muralitharan

Edited September 27, 2016 by Muloghonto

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, Texan said:

If it should consider all eras, then one should probably pick Fazal Mahmood over Shoaib. Also, team seems thin on spin (only one spinner in OP). I would pick Kumble for Waqar.

really! here is the records. There is no much difference between the averages but look at the strike rates. Fazal has an SR of spinners.

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/India/content/player/42655.html

 

Fazal

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/India/content/player/40092.html

[Texan]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

really! here is the records. There is no much difference between the averages but look at the strike rates. Fazal has an SR of spinners.

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/India/content/player/42655.html

 

Fazal

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/India/content/player/40092.html

SRs are low for all recent bowlers. Teams don't win or lose based on how many balls they batted. Fazal also has 4 x 10 wickets/match hauls in less matches compared to only 2 for Shoaib and he bowled mostly without any support from the other end while Shoaib had the luxury of Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, etc.

[express bowling]

20 minutes ago, Texan said:

SRs are low for all recent bowlers. Teams don't win or lose based on how many balls they batted. Fazal also has 4 x 10 wickets/match hauls in less matches compared to only 2 for Shoaib and he bowled mostly without any support from the other end while Shoaib had the luxury of Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, etc.

They do on occasions.  Test matches have the option of  ending in a draw by playing out the overs..

 

This has become even more important with the huge increase in the number of off-season test matches during rainy seasons, where 1 or  2 days are  often lost due to rain.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

really! here is the records. There is no much difference between the averages but look at the strike rates. Fazal has an SR of spinners.

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/India/content/player/42655.html

 

Fazal

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/India/content/player/40092.html

Also...Shoaib had the advantage of blistering pace ....batsmen often said that they had sleepless nights before facing him and this had a psychological impact on the opposition team.

 

A genuine express bowler with  an average of 25  and SR  of 45  just cannot be ignored.

Edited September 27, 2016 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Texan said:

SRs are low for all recent bowlers. Teams don't win or lose based on how many balls they batted. Fazal also has 4 x 10 wickets/match hauls in less matches compared to only 2 for Shoaib and he bowled mostly without any support from the other end while Shoaib had the luxury of Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, etc.

thing is there is not much difference between their averages, so, I would always pick Shoaib because of his extra pace. Also, yes, lot of bowlers do have low SR these days, but how many have an SR of  45. This is an all time great strike rate you are talking about and that to go with a good average. To get any idea, two of the best bowlers of this decade Anderson and Broad have an SR of 57.

 

 

 

 

 

[mancalledsting]

Sorry meant to be all time team for tests 

Sehwag backup off spinner 

tendulkar back up leg spinner

[Muloghonto]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

They do on occasions.  Test matches have the option of  ending in a draw by playing out the overs..

 

This has become even more important with the huge increase in the number of off-season test matches during rainy seasons, where 1 or  2 days are  often lost due to rain.

TBH, batsmen today are nowhere as skilled as those form the past in terms of 'hanging on'. In the past, it is far more common for batsmen to score much slower and having 2-2.5 RPO run-rate in tests. 

Besides, Fazal is more valuable than Shoaib, since neither are good enough to dislodge Imran-Wasim as the openers and are therefore, 3rd seamers. 
3rd seamers need accuracy more than anything else and that is where Fazal leaves Akhtar in the dust. 

[rkt.india]

20 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

TBH, batsmen today are nowhere as skilled as those form the past in terms of 'hanging on'. In the past, it is far more common for batsmen to score much slower and having 2-2.5 RPO run-rate in tests. 

Besides, Fazal is more valuable than Shoaib, since neither are good enough to dislodge Imran-Wasim as the openers and are therefore, 3rd seamers. 
3rd seamers need accuracy more than anything else and that is where Fazal leaves Akhtar in the dust. 

yeah, one side you are saying Batsmen in the past were more skilled to stay. It would mean that they would play less shots and hence, the low ER of Fazal. So according to you, Fazal would have had the same ER today too? If Akhtar had played in those days with that pace and intimidation, he would actually be averaging far less then what he did.

[express bowling]

31 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

TBH, batsmen today are nowhere as skilled as those form the past in terms of 'hanging on'. In the past, it is far more common for batsmen to score much slower and having 2-2.5 RPO run-rate in tests. 

Besides, Fazal is more valuable than Shoaib, since neither are good enough to dislodge Imran-Wasim as the openers and are therefore, 3rd seamers. 
3rd seamers need accuracy more than anything else and that is where Fazal leaves Akhtar in the dust. 

Fazal played between 1952 and 1962.   Safe to say that you have never seen him bowl......well maybe you have seen a fading video or two featuring 15 deliveries or thereabouts.  So, basically, opinion about him is based on stats, articles and word of mouth of other people.

 

Given that Shoaib had better overall stats  than Fazal  ( combo of average and SR )  and was much much quicker....I would go with the bowler  I have actually seen.   ER in those days was lower for every bowler as most batsmen played far more slowly except a couple of spectacular ones like Sobers.

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

yeah, one side you are saying Batsmen in the past were more skilled to stay. It would mean that they would play less shots and hence, the low ER of Fazal. So according to you, Fazal would have had the same ER today too? If Akhtar had played in those days with that pace and intimidation, he would actually be averaging far less then what he did.

Err not necessarily. Remember, bouncers were the norm on uncovered pitches back then, pretty much from the early 50s onwards. We have a couple of blazingly fast & intimidating but not consistent enough bowlers- such as Charlie Griffiths or Uton Dowe, who were very fast but not accurate enough. IMO, accuracy was far more needed back then, because batsmen had a fundamentally 'must not get out to a ball' as a much greater priority than 'how many runs i can score before out' we see since the 90s era galvanized limited overs batting & ultimately, improved chasing ability in tests. 
But trust me,back in the day, it was not rare for a guy to be 'doing just fine' scoring 17 off of 80 balls, before eventually puttering around for 65-70 runs in 200 balls. These days, its the batsman who gets perturbed if they don't score for 10 balls and do something 'pressure-releasing'- in tests ! Sure, that helps, but sometimes it is better to do nothing for the next 30 balls until matters calm down a bit. 
That is the mentality that is lacking in today's batsmen. 

 

Don't get me wrong- this doesnt mean batsmen back then were by default, better. I don't think they were, because they were nowhere as scrutinized as they are today (batsmen & bowlers), which means 'if you got a fundamental flaw/tell to your game and someoen figures it out, it is a career altering outcome', usually back in the day. As a result,they are a lot less adaptive, lot less commanding in scoring shots department. 

All in all, i think what this means, is I don't think Akhtar would be a total failure in that era. I can see almost anyone jumping or dropping 10-20% in performance if eras are interchanged, simply because the challenges in the game are different. Personally, i think Akhtar would've been in the +/-10-15% of his career performance if put in that era. Who knows, he might've stayed relevant in the 4th innings on uncovered pitches  and what he lost in being mediocre in 'sustained accuracy pressure' department, he'd have made up with his blazing speed.

 

Similarly, I think the same is valid for Fazal. Personally, i think the transition 'forward in time' is a bit difficult usually, especially if the games remain the same, but he too I think would slot into the 10-15% variance of his career performance range IMO- what he loses in 'bite and aggression/speed', he makes up for in accuracy and control.

There is always a possibility that we could have a near 'Pollock-McGrath' effect from  one of the greats who were not particularly fast or movement oriented but did the '4th line stump & micro-variations just enough to get nicks' better than any of their contemporaries.

The thing i find more relevant, is How the bowlers are being used.

Fazal was accurate like hell and could move the ball well both ways. Akhtar has blazing speed, a mean streak and can be unplayable when he hits his oh-so-rare patches of sustained brilliance. So they are both going to be effective opening the bowling, perhaps Akhtar more so on his peak days (and Fazal more so on his off days). But it is irrelevant.

Your team has Imran Khan and Wasim Akram. They trump both these guys in opening the bowling and getting first dibs (especially Akram) on the old reversing ball. Then there is Murali and most probably, Kumble as the 'other two locks'. Not only are they the most accomplished two spinners from Asia, one is a classic offie, other is an atypical Leggie, so they complement beautifully.

Again, its mr 5th bowler guy. Who is this guy ? Well on a spinning wicket, the answer is obvious- you put in a third spinner and use Imran & Wasim as surgical strike options. The 3rd spinner comes in the form of Bedi (if you want the ultimate Asian spin wet dream) or Vinoo Mankad to provide trustful 3rd spinner duties while providing valuable runs.

if its a pacy wicket, well then it boils down to might as well take Waqar, who is better than both Fazal and Akhtar IMO or again, if the argument is 'don't trust the whole Imran-Dhoni/Sanga/Kirmani as #6&7' , well then the easy solution is, put Kapil in. He is perfect for further bolstering the batting and lets be honest, Kapil is the ultimate master of donkey-work, 5th bowler's job of 'contain,hold & exploit weakness & impatience'. 

 

Edited September 27, 2016 by Muloghonto

[Ankit_sharma03]

Would be really hard to pick Test 11 as i started watching cricket post 1996 properly, so i havent seen to many great players of past. 

 

Anyways picking an All time Asian 11 ODi Side

 

1.Sanath- Terrific fielder + his left arm spin

2.Sachin - could bowl leg spin as well. Decent fielder with good throwing arm

3.Kohli - terrific fielder

4.Sangakkara- Was looking at Inzy n Miandad as well but Inzy running and Fielding would prove costly. I havent seen miandad a lot

5.Yuvraj -Good fielder + his left arm spin

6.Dhoni- Captain & WK

7.Imran Khan- Good fielder, hitter and he also can be accumlator , bowled at good pace as well 

8.Kapil dev - Great hitter , great swing bowler for early overs and again a terrific fielder specially in deep

9.Wasim - Needed a left armer, Deadly in last overs, more than a handy batsman at 9

10.Malinga- Preffered over waqar as i felt i needed an extremely diff dimension in bowling and a terrific death bowler. 

11.Muralitharan- I really liked saqlain , if m selecting murali i could have selected by Ajmal but murali was a terrific fielder and nothing much to choose between their bowling

12th man- Abdul Razzaq ( he was the better but still afridi was given more limelight ,god knows why)

 

Player who were hard to ignore- 

 

• A lot of stress for me was on fielding and running Between as i think those are the areas that makes a huge diff. Competing against world 11 fielding has to be of highest order . So i have no liability in field. Great fielders in deep with terrific death bowlers. 
• Wanted to have enough depth in bowling n batting . Sanath, yuvi, sachin gives me enough spin bowling options as well. Spin bowling all rounder also made me consider afridi but well rather than variety ill choose better cricketers 
• In batting to i think apart from Sanath n Kapil everyone can bat in any gear acc to the situation. 

 

[Sooda]

On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 11:55 PM, mancalledsting said:

Gavaskar 

Sehwag

Dravid

Tendulkar 

Miandad

Sangakarra (wk)

Imran (captain)

Wasim

Waqar

Shoaib 

Muralitharan

Same team but Kumble instead of Shoaib

[Sooda]

19 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Would be really hard to pick Test 11 as i started watching cricket post 1996 properly, so i havent seen to many great players of past. 

 

Anyways picking an All time Asian 11 ODi Side

 

1.Sanath- Terrific fielder + his left arm spin

2.Sachin - could bowl leg spin as well. Decent fielder with good throwing arm

3.Kohli - terrific fielder

4.Sangakkara- Was looking at Inzy n Miandad as well but Inzy running and Fielding would prove costly. I havent seen miandad a lot

5.Yuvraj -Good fielder + his left arm spin

6.Dhoni- Captain & WK

7.Imran Khan- Good fielder, hitter and he also can be accumlator , bowled at good pace as well 

8.Kapil dev - Great hitter , great swing bowler for early overs and again a terrific fielder specially in deep

9.Wasim - Needed a left armer, Deadly in last overs, more than a handy batsman at 9

10.Malinga- Preffered over waqar as i felt i needed an extremely diff dimension in bowling and a terrific death bowler. 

11.Muralitharan- I really liked saqlain , if m selecting murali i could have selected by Ajmal but murali was a terrific fielder and nothing much to choose between their bowling

12th man- Abdul Razzaq ( he was the better but still afridi was given more limelight ,god knows why)

 

Player who were hard to ignore- 

 

• A lot of stress for me was on fielding and running Between as i think those are the areas that makes a huge diff. Competing against world 11 fielding has to be of highest order . So i have no liability in field. Great fielders in deep with terrific death bowlers. 
• Wanted to have enough depth in bowling n batting . Sanath, yuvi, sachin gives me enough spin bowling options as well. Spin bowling all rounder also made me consider afridi but well rather than variety ill choose better cricketers 
• In batting to i think apart from Sanath n Kapil everyone can bat in any gear acc to the situation. 

 

I don't think Imran is a suitable candidate for no 7 in ODIs, not sure if he would be able to come in and accelerate hard enough. You could put in an additional batsman (M Yusuf maybe?), because between Yuvraj and Sanath, and Sachin if needed there is 5th and 6th bowler options

[Sooda]

Fazal Mahmood, would be interesting to see how many of his wickets came on jute matting where his cutters worked wonders. Though I know he bowled Pak to their first victory in England. He was almost picked for India, when they toured England before WW2, but was a bit young then.

[Ankit_sharma03]

17 minutes ago, Sooda said:

I don't think Imran is a suitable candidate for no 7 in ODIs, not sure if he would be able to come in and accelerate hard enough. You could put in an additional batsman (M Yusuf maybe?), because between Yuvraj and Sanath, and Sachin if needed there is 5th and 6th bowler options

Yusuf never, Imran had all abilities - he could play a grafter, accumlator or power hitter role whenever needed. 

Yusuf poor fielding skills and his runouts problem. I have enough batting for 300 balls. 

 

AS i said m looking for team that can field and run better between wkts apart from being good cricketers. If i would wanna replace imran it would be with someone like Razzaq. Even i would consider afridi for his leg spin bowling

I have enough hitting abilities with yuvi, dhoni, kapil, Imran and even wasim. Imran could really hit the ball it was his the evergreen unstable Pak batting that didnt allow him to full on. Imran wont be a 7 number for me like Dhoni he would be a grafter acc to stiuation n bowler , infact post Sangakkara the whole order would be flexible for me

 

 

 

[sscomp32]

On 9/27/2016 at 5:24 AM, Viper said:

What is this for tests ?  Or all formats

 

I ll go with all formats here

 

Sehwag 

Sanga

Dravid

Sachin

I need a lefty here can't  think of anyone / allrounder would be great

Dhoni (wk)

Murali

Anil

Imran khan

Zaheer

Wasim

 

 

 

 

 

 

You wont like it but given your requirement shakib fits well.  

[Muloghonto]

In ODIs, I'd easily take Kapil over Imran. Neither are ace strike bowlers in ODIs, that job would be filled by Akram-Younis. 
Kapil is more economical than Imran. He takes more wickets/match. And above all, he is a LOT better than Khan Sahib in ODI batting. 

 

24 runs average @ 90+ strike rate with the bat has a lot more mileage at #7 position than 34 average @ low 70s strike rate. 

Bear in mind that Kapil played one of the best ever ODI innings in his only century. Khan doesn't really have an ODI innings that is superlative display of batsmanship. 

Oh and one last thing- Kapil was way, way better fielder than Imran. This matters in ODIs- a LOT. 

 

[Texan]

6 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

In ODIs, I'd easily take Kapil over Imran. Neither are ace strike bowlers in ODIs, that job would be filled by Akram-Younis. 
Kapil is more economical than Imran. He takes more wickets/match. And above all, he is a LOT better than Khan Sahib in ODI batting. 

 

24 runs average @ 90+ strike rate with the bat has a lot more mileage at #7 position than 34 average @ low 70s strike rate. 

Bear in mind that Kapil played one of the best ever ODI innings in his only century. Khan doesn't really have an ODI innings that is superlative display of batsmanship. 

Oh and one last thing- Kapil was way, way better fielder than Imran. This matters in ODIs- a LOT. 

 

Add to that, a 90+ SR in 80s, 90s was as rare as it gets. In today's age, that would probably equate to a 110 SR. 

[express bowling]

11 hours ago, Texan said:

Add to that, a 90+ SR in 80s, 90s was as rare as it gets. In today's age, that would probably equate to a 110 SR. 

To be precise....Kapil had a SR of  95  in ODIs.....that would be more like 120 nowadays.