Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Adamant]

40 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Ishant has indeed been quite good in test matches from 2016 to 2019.  

 

But he has been very unfit in the last 2 years.

 

1.  Has missed 7 of the 15 test matches in 2020 and 2021, due to fitness issues.

 

2. Has run out of steam in his later spells in these 2 years. He used to be a workhorse and bowled with effort for long periods. But that aspect is now gone.

 

He has been bowling fast for the last 14.5 years. Not so easy to do as an Asian, with the slow pitches and hot weather. It is expected that his fitness would deteriorate after so much work.

 

He can still pick.wickets on his fitter days.

 

But it is very important to move towards fully fit pacers in every format. 

 

I know he has been plagued with injuries recently but he has had a good break now since he didn't play in IPL and even on England tour he barely played, so I think he might be back to his best and maybe that's why he was asked to lead. 

Secondly, in a two match series vs NZ you just can't ask Prasidh to debut and that too when 6 first choice players are missing, can't expect Prasidh to start delivering from day 1 and that is exactly what we need against Nz.

[Adamant]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Perennial problem in India. Big names and seniority become much more important than current form and ability. Seeing it with Rahane and Pujara too. 

 

Now it is possible that Ishant has a really good match as he is well rested and fresh. 

 

But he won't be a consistent performer from now on, as he lacks fitness.

 

It is very important that we find a replacement ASAP.

Why do people neglect the importance of a particular match just bcoz of long term benefits? 

You think this match isn't significant? As you said Ishant is well rested and can definitely do well, also he won't be a regular when Shami, Bumrah and Thakur come back in SA. 

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Adamant said:

Lol at people even thinking about preferring Prasidh over Ishant in a two match series against NZ when our 6 first choice players are missing. 

 

Matlab young hai to khila do?  Ghatiya mentality. 

Siraj is experienced enough now.

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Adamant said:

Why do people neglect the importance of a particular match just bcoz of long term benefits? 

You think this match isn't significant?

 

I actually said the exact opposite of what you are insinuating. 

 

I said that big names and seniority become much more important than current form and ability ... which means that the current match is actually put at risk because of what people did in the past and not doing it now.

 

Big names and well known names almost always play past their effective years in India.

 

 

 

Quote

As you said Ishant is well rested and can definitely do well, also he won't be a regular when Shami, Bumrah and Thakur come back in SA. 

 

 

Ishant has been a regular in almost every test match he has been available in.

 

When England toured India earlier this year, Ishant played all 4 tests while an in-form Siraj was dropped in 2. 

 

It should have been Siraj playing all 4 tests while Bumrah and Ishant were rotated in that series.

Edited November 25, 2021 by express bowling

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Adamant said:

 

Secondly, in a two match series vs NZ you just can't ask Prasidh to debut and that too when 6 first choice players are missing, can't expect Prasidh to start delivering from day 1 and that is exactly what we need against Nz.

 

 

I did not ask for Prasidh 

 

I and @Mosher were discussing why Siraj wasn't there because there was no report that he was unavailable due to injury.

 

In fact there were reports that he could be the 2nd fast bowler.

 

If Siraj is actually unfit then it has to be Umesh and Ishant for this test at least.

Edited November 25, 2021 by express bowling

[ShoonyaSifar]

Picking Ishant just for his experience when he's been struggling all this year doesn't make sense at all. The bowling attack has enough experience in Umesh, Ashwin and Jadeja.

 

Ishant has been below par in India for a long long time. Despite his revival after 2015, has 23 wickets@39 in 16 home tests (no Afghanistan and BD). Not good enough. Earlier this year, he kwas preferred over Siraj, did nothing. Now over Prasidh (with Siraj not fully fit), not likely to do much 

 

Was the perfect time to give a chance to Prasidh

[Jay]

54 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Picking Ishant just for his experience when he's been struggling all this year doesn't make sense at all. The bowling attack has enough experience in Umesh, Ashwin and Jadeja.

 

Ishant has been below par in India for a long long time. Despite his revival after 2015, has 23 wickets@39 in 16 home tests (no Afghanistan and BD). Not good enough. Earlier this year, he kwas preferred over Siraj, did nothing. Now over Prasidh (with Siraj not fully fit), not likely to do much 

 

Was the perfect time to give a chance to Prasidh

Stupid dimwitted myopic management. 

[Suhaan]

Ishant Sharma played here hasn't been bowled much

What was the point to play him when he isn't bowled as intended?

Ishant can't play the game just to make numbers, pathetic record in India doesn't make his case stronger

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

Ishant Sharma played here hasn't been bowled much

What was the point to play him when he isn't bowled as intended?

Ishant can't play the game just to make numbers, pathetic record in India doesn't make his case stronger

 

 

We are really missing someone of Bumrah's extra pace on this slow track. Umesh has lost the ability to bowl those 90 mph balls at will now. 

 

NZ batsmen don't throw away their wickets like our phattu batters. 

 

Maybe some like Prasidh, with his extra pace and bounce, could have been a bit more effective.

Edited November 26, 2021 by express bowling

[Jay]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

We are really missing someone of Bumrah's extra pace on this slow track. Umesh has lost the ability to bowl those 90 mph balls at will now. 

 

NZ batsmen don't throw away their wickets like our phattu batters. 

 

Maybe some like Prasidh, with his extra pace and bounce, could have been a bit more effective.

Siraj and umesh would be handy. Umesh bowled 140 consistently tbh. Prasidh would have been a good choice too. Shame. 

[express bowling]

12 minutes ago, Jay said:

Siraj and umesh would be handy. Umesh bowled 140 consistently tbh. Prasidh would have been a good choice too. Shame. 

 

 

I was assuming that Siraj is not fully fit.

But did not see any bandage on his left hand today. So, it is possible that he was fit to play. 

 

Umesh bowled 140 k regularly but could not bowl those quicker balls around 145 k to pick up a sudden wicket. 

 

 

[New guy]

16 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I was assuming that Siraj is not fully fit.

But did not see any bandage on his left hand today. So, it is possible that he was fit to play. 

 

Umesh bowled 140 k regularly but could not bowl those quicker balls around 145 k to pick up a sudden wicket. 

 

 

Southee and jamieson took 9 wickets at 125kph. Claiming you need 145 to take wickets is too much

[Suhaan]

10 minutes ago, New guy said:

Southee and jamieson took 9 wickets at 125kph. Claiming you need 145 to take wickets is too much

We have non existent middle order,keeper batsman those two are quite tall and Ishant doesn't look to have stamina required to bowl in tests

They are tall too,with bounce being inconsistent that also helps not saying you need to bowl 145 all the time

You have factor in other things as well

[express bowling]

54 minutes ago, New guy said:

Southee and jamieson took 9 wickets at 125kph. Claiming you need 145 to take wickets is too much

 

 

1. Jamieson averaged 133 kph with a Fastest of 139 kph.  Southee averaged 131 kph with a Fastest of 136 kph. 

 

They did not bowl at 125 kph.

 

2. The NZ batsmen are much better than the Indian batters based on current form and ability.

 

3.  The NZ seamers are diffetent types of bowlers. Jamieson is 6'8" tall and gets steep bounce from a very high release point. Even a pitched up ball hits the splice of the bat.

 

Southee is 6'3"+ too and has a high relese point too. He is similar to Ishant in some ways and these types of tall pacers don't necessarily need to clock very high speeds if they are highly skilful. McGrath and Pollock were good examples.

 

Problem with Ishant is that he is not getting zip off the deck that he once did. Otherwise, at his height, he can succeed at 132 k to 142 k without hitting 145 kph.

 

4.  Umesh Yadav is a 5'11" skiddy pacer with a rather low release point as he does not have a high arm action.  

 

These types of pacers need to clock high speeds if they want to take wickets consistently. 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by express bowling

[Pollack]

1 hour ago, New guy said:

Southee and jamieson took 9 wickets at 125kph.

No they didn't bowl at 125kph. Only bhuvi bowls at that speed as a strike bowler.

[Suhaan]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

1. Jamieson averaged 133 kph with a Fastest of 139 kph.  Southee averaged 131 kph with a Fastest of 136 kph. 

 

They did not bowl at 125 kph.

 

2. The NZ batsmen are much better than the Indian batters based on current form and ability.

 

3.  The NZ seamers are diffetent types of bowlers. Jamieson is 6'8" tall and gets steep bounce from a very high release point. Even a pitched up ball hits the splice of the bat.

 

Southee is 6'3"+ too and has a high relese point too. He is similar to Ishant in some ways and these types of tall pacers don't necessarily need to clock very high speeds if they are highly skilful. McGrath and Pollock were good examples.

 

Problem with Ishant is that he is not getting zip off the deck that he once did. Otherwise, at his height, he can succeed at 132 k to 142 k without hitting 145 kph.

 

4.  Umesh Yadav is a 5'11" skiddy pacer with a rather low release point as he does not have a high arm action.  

 

These types of pacers need to clock high speeds if they want to take wickets consistently. 

 

 

And Ishant doesn't seem to utilize his height that well all through

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

And Ishant doesn't seem to utilize his height that well all through

 

Exactly !

[New guy]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

1. Jamieson averaged 133 kph with a Fastest of 139 kph.  Southee averaged 131 kph with a Fastest of 136 kph. 

 

They did not bowl at 125 kph.

 

2. The NZ batsmen are much better than the Indian batters based on current form and ability.

 

3.  The NZ seamers are diffetent types of bowlers. Jamieson is 6'8" tall and gets steep bounce from a very high release point. Even a pitched up ball hits the splice of the bat.

 

Southee is 6'3"+ too and has a high relese point too. He is similar to Ishant in some ways and these types of tall pacers don't necessarily need to clock very high speeds if they are highly skilful. McGrath and Pollock were good examples.

 

Problem with Ishant is that he is not getting zip off the deck that he once did. Otherwise, at his height, he can succeed at 132 k to 142 k without hitting 145 kph.

 

4.  Umesh Yadav is a 5'11" skiddy pacer with a rather low release point as he does not have a high arm action.  

 

These types of pacers need to clock high speeds if they want to take wickets consistently. 

 

 

Yadav was taking wickets of 130 kph to 135kph in all recent series. This is just making up fantasies to justify speed gun obsession 

[rkt.india]

10 minutes ago, New guy said:

Yadav was taking wickets of 130 kph to 135kph in all recent series. This is just making up fantasies to justify speed gun obsession 

Which recent series?

[New guy]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Which recent series?

The indian ones. Check his wicket taking deliveries, 90% is below 140