Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[express bowling]

40 minutes ago, Vijy said:

he was bowling low 130s even in 2003. it stands to reason that he was potentially 5-6 kph faster on avg in his peak, which would make him a pacer with avg speeds in high 130s. this seems consistent with both visual evidence (.i.e., just watching matches without speed guns) as well as anecdotes

 

 

Very true.

 

And another big aspect in fast bowling is the abiility to get zip and bounce off the deck and the bowling style and hostility of the pacer as a result of this ability. 

 

Roughly speaking, in cricketing circles,  pacers are known either as .... 

 

Fast Bowlers ----  Pacers who get zip and bounce off the deck and can bowl hostile deliveries often enough and rush batsmen regularly.

 

OR

 

Swing Bowlers ---- Pacers who are more floaty in nature and rarely hostile unless the pitch is super bouncy.

 

A Rabada or Shami bowling at 130 k to 140 k or a Duanne Olivier bowling 125 k to 135 k, still look like Fast bowlers and batsmen feel like they are playing fast bowlers ... because of the zip and bounce they get off the track and their bowling styles. And it was the same with Akram from 1987 to 1998 or thereabouts. (  Akram was more floaty and slower in 1985 and 1986 ) 

Edited January 5, 2022 by express bowling

[express bowling]

20 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

You seriously think posters here are obsessed with pace only?no, people here are obsessed with hostile bowling ,a 130 pacer with good bounce and intent is always welcome

People here hate only harmless Sakaria type trundlers and the oneness about a bowling attack

I really like variety with our bowling attack

 

 

Yes bro...  All great teams have had hostile pace attacks.

 

Teams with floaty pacers have always lagged behind ... and jumped up and down after that odd win as underdogs in swing friendly conditions.

[Jay]

11 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Very true.

 

And another big aspect in fast bowling is the abiility to get zip and bounce off the deck and the bowling style and hostility of the pacer as a result of this ability. 

 

Roughly speaking, in cricketing circles,  pacers are known either as .... 

 

Fast Bowlers ----  Pacers who get zip and bounce off the deck and can bowl hostile deliveries often enough.

 

OR

 

Swing Bowlers ---- Pacers who are more floaty in nature and rarely hostile unless the pitch is super bouncy.

 

A Rabada or Shami bowling at 130 k to 140 k or a Duanne Olivier bowling 125 k to 135 k, still look like Fast bowlers and batsmen feel like they are playing fast bowlers ... because of the zip and bounce they get off the track and their bowling styles.

Forget about shami who bowls 135-140 plus if he wants to. Look at wagner. Average speed is legit 128 ish. He bowls 125-135 Max. 136 may be is top speed Lel. He is probably the hardest bowler to dominate regardless due to his ability to generate bounce off the deck as bowls a heavy ball by bending his back and hitting the deck hard. 

 

If you can't bowl fast then no excuses to not bend your back and hit the deck hard. If not you can stay at home and play play station. 

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

Forget about shami who bowls 135-140 plus if he wants to. Look at wagner. Average speed is legit 128 ish. He bowls 125-135 Max. 136 may be is top speed Lel. He is probably the hardest bowler to dominate regardless due to his ability to generate bounce off the deck as bowls a heavy ball by bending his back and hitting the deck hard. 

 

If you can't bowl fast then no excuses to not bend your back and hit the deck hard. If not you can stay at home and play play station. 

You need strong shoulders to do that.

[rollingstoned]

56 minutes ago, Jay said:

Philtrundler is a joke outside sena.i can't rate such bowlers. If people judge Asian bowlers based on sena metric. Same standard should apply to these sena bowlers. 

 

Same goes for bumrah and Cummins. Sure both are great in sena. But they both need to prove themselves in India. I know bumrah has a good ranji record but he hasn't played enough games yet in India. Cummins averages 31 in India. Let's see how he goes next time

 Lot of work to do to be amongst the best of all time

 

philander has a decent record in both Australia and England. He helped them win that series in 2016 where they didn't have Steyn and Abd. even in those bowling friendly pitches in india in 2015 him and Morkel didn't disgrace themselves.

He made a career out of bowling in the channel on spicy saf pitches so it's okay imo. Others who bowl that way may not even come close to replicating what he achieved there so that has to count in his favour.

[Jay]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

You need strong shoulders to do that.

Then develop it. Can't bowl fast? No skill? Then work on bouncers and hit the deck hard. Try to get seam movement off the surface. No excuses. 

[Jay]

1 minute ago, rollingstoned said:

philander has a decent record in both Australia and England. He helped them win that series in 2016 where they didn't have Steyn and Abd. even in those bowling friendly pitches in india in 2015 him and Morkel didn't disgrace themselves.

He made a career out of bowling in the channel on spicy saf pitches so it's okay imo. Others who bowl that way may not even come close to replicating what he achieved there so that has to count in his favour.

He averages 50 in India iirc. Just. Or good enough tbh. Not sure how well he did in u.a.e. 

 

Can't rate him as a complete bowler. Not a atg but a very good bowler. Shami has a poor record in England but he has played a major role in some test wins whenever we toured there. 

 

Philtrundlee never came close to helping his team win a game in India though. 

[Adamant]

1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

You seriously think posters here are obsessed with pace only?no, people here are obsessed with hostile bowling ,a 130 pacer with good bounce and intent is always welcome

People here hate only harmless Sakaria type trundlers and the oneness about a bowling attack

I really like variety with our bowling attack

130 kph + is good enough, that's all I am saying. 

After that you should just look at the skills and control that the bowler has. 

There shouldn't be a threshold of 135+ for a pacer, I have seen some posts and even threads here suggesting that. 

[Adamant]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Can't rate him as a complete bowler. Not a atg but a very good bowler. 

Who said that Philander is an ATG but as you said he was a very good bowler and any team would love to have him as an option. 

[Adamant]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Forget about shami who bowls 135-140 plus if he wants to. Look at wagner. Average speed is legit 128 ish. He bowls 125-135 Max. 136 may be is top speed Lel. He is probably the hardest bowler to dominate regardless due to his ability to generate bounce off the deck as bowls a heavy ball by bending his back and hitting the deck hard. 

 

If you can't bowl fast then no excuses to not bend your back and hit the deck hard. If not you can stay at home and play play station. 

Yes Wagner is another example of a bowler who does well even though he bowls in the 120s.

[Adamant]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

Speed with no skill like bouncer, yorker or ability to use seam movement is useless.

The fast you ate the less you need to seam. Margin for error is very low for batsmen. That's why speed is king. Speed matters. Speed kills. Speed is king.

Arre so who said that you should select pacers qho bowl 120 and have no skills or can't move the ball much? 

If you bowl in low 130s you should have way more control and ability to move the ball, then only that particular trundler should be selected. 

[Jay]

5 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Yes Wagner is another example of a bowler who does well even though he bowls in the 120s.

It's crazy how bowlers can be effective in so many ways. Just need to find strengths that allow you to be a dominant force. Short tall medium doesn't matter. No pace trundler or any bowler can develop skills and tools to be world class provided they put in the effort ofcourse. 

 

With faster bowlers, the advantage being the lesser requirement for skill variations. However, they sacrifice their body and health for this gift. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Jay

[Jay]

7 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Arre so who said that you should select pacers qho bowl 120 and have no skills or can't move the ball much? 

If you bowl in low 130s you should have way more control and ability to move the ball, then only that particular trundler should be selected. 

Ofcourse. On true flat wickets shardul was as effective as Cummins and bumrah. That's insane. 

 

He bowled 135-140 though.

[Vk1]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Forget about shami who bowls 135-140 plus if he wants to. Look at wagner. Average speed is legit 128 ish. He bowls 125-135 Max. 136 may be is top speed Lel. He is probably the hardest bowler to dominate regardless due to his ability to generate bounce off the deck as bowls a heavy ball by bending his back and hitting the deck hard. 

 

If you can't bowl fast then no excuses to not bend your back and hit the deck hard. If not you can stay at home and play play station. 

 

trying to think of fast bowlers who can bowl at 140+ consistently but are not known for bowling hostile spells/lack of good bouncer.. Shaun Tait /  Wood?

[Jay]

17 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

 

trying to think of fast bowlers who can bowl at 140+ consistently but are not known for bowling hostile spells/lack of good bouncer.. Shaun Tait /  Wood?

Rauf lol

Shaheen has no bounce despite being tall. He has accurate yorkers and other stuff however. 

Mohammed sami Lel no bounce at all

 

Varun Aaron had a nasty bumper so not him. 

Saini? Don't recall him being effective with bounce in particular. He bowed 140 plus in ranji consistently. 

Must khan hahah

Mohammed irfan useless bouncer. 

Lockie? Don't recall bouncers. More yorkers. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Jay

[vijaydude]

Bumrah has bowled some gentle fast-medium filth so far (13th over of the SA innings).

[Vk1]

even though he has picked only one wicket so far, Ashwin's spell is top class.. this is what you miss from Jadeja in SENA.. he is getting picked more to cover up the failures of trimurtid

[Vk1]

while watching cricinfo commentary when Ashwin is bowling, always feel thrilled looking at his overal numbers.. 83 / 430 is hadlee/steyn like numbers

[rollingstoned]

Thought our 2 spearheads were attacking the stumps a bit too much without trying anything else. Going wicketless is not a problem but they didn't even look that threatening. The support bowler in Shardul otoh seemed unplayable at times. They hopefully mix it up more tomorrow, this isn't a pitch where you can skittle a team with lateral movement and bowling a full length alone. Most of our wickets fell because of an inability to cope with the bounce on offer. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by rollingstoned

[Jay]

6 hours ago, rollingstoned said:

Thought our 2 spearheads were attacking the stumps a bit too much without trying anything else. Going wicketless is not a problem but they didn't even look that threatening. The support bowler in Shardul otoh seemed unplayable at times. They hopefully mix it up more tomorrow, this isn't a pitch where you can skittle a team with lateral movement and bowling a full length alone. Most of our wickets fell because of an inability to cope with the bounce on offer. 

So our batsmen can today spin barring 2.

Can't play swing at all

Can't play bounce barring one. 

 

What a batting unit.