Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[AKane]

12 hours ago, Vijy said:

how the heck has this flown completely under the radar? with this performance, sorry to say, but he needs to be dropped! He should still play WCs and big events, and some matches before WC for prep, but otherwise he should not play ODIs. Would rather see Prasidh and Avesh in the team.

 

 

Indeed an average of 75 for the last 2 years is shocking. Can't believe it.

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

when a cupboard is on the bare side, you should give them chances. Tyagi, Mavi, Dayal are three more I forgot to mention. And last, but not least, Hangu.

 

I don't consider Avesh to be borderline trundler provided that he is fit and bowling with full intensity. I have seen him bowl at low speeds on occasion, but he has also bowled consistently in high 130s (min) at other times. Would like to hear what @express bowling and @Mosher also think?

 

 

Siraj is the most ready white ball pacer we have among the new lot. He bowls 138 k to 148 k in white ball cricket with great accuracy, great yorrkers, decent slower balls, movement and a good bouncer. Can bowl both at the start and in the death overs equally well. 

 

Among the next in line ... I think Prasidh is the pacer who should be given a lot of chances.  This is because he brings to the table a quality that Team India lacks. And that is getting steep bounce at 135 k to 145 k or even higher. It would not be fair to judge his temperament based on T20 matches. He could well be like Shami, who does well in Tests and ODIs.

 

The next pacer who really interests me is Hangargekar. He too gets a lot of natural bounce and is probably bowling 135 k to 145 k at age 19. Plus he is a strongly built lad which means it will be easier for him to hit the deck hard and get bounce for a long time. He can be the ideal No.8 across formats and can be a much better replacement for Shardul. I want the BCCI to show a bit of vision and fast track him. Select him for India A.

 

The USP of Umran Malik's skiddy 150 kph pace must be kept in mind by the BCCI too. Give him.as many India A matches as possible and can be tried on ODIs again st the really weak teams.

 

Kartik Tyagi has the pace, bounce, height, attitude and temperament. I hope he is developed with special care by the BCCI.

 

Avesh Khan interests me only as a T20I prospect as of today. He has a habit of dropping pace in the longer formats and has fitness issues ... and the heaviness of his deliveries have decreased drastically. If he bowls with effort in T20s then and only then should be be tried in ODIs.

 

Yash Dayal has height, bounce, swing and probably pace too. He does well in domestics and is a left armer. Must be tried for our A-team. 

 

These are the new pace prospects I am looking forward to.

Edited January 20, 2022 by express bowling

[express bowling]

Hangargekar is superb !

 

He can be the complete package. Pace, bounce, strongly built, height of around 6'0". Plus he is so accurate and seams the ball both ways.

 

And his hiitting and batting abity means that we have our next No.8 in the pipeline. We won't have to compromise on picking trundlers like Deepak and Shardul for the bowling allrounder's slot.

Edited January 20, 2022 by express bowling

[express bowling]

" Hangargekar ", the surname,  has the potential to challenge " Deteriorate " as the most mis-pronounced and misspelt word in English, with unending number of variations.   

 

@Mosher, @Vijy, @sarchasm, @Mariyam

[express bowling]

Raj Bawa can be a great batting all-rounder. He looks sharp while bowling and has a good yorker.

 

This U19 batch can give us some really good pace bowling all-rounders who are not trundlers but are quite pacy. Loving it  !

[rollingstoned]

1 hour ago, R!TTER said:

Who?

Bumrah.

[ShoonyaSifar]

Wonder where the BCCI is with Troy Colley and the pacers project which was to be launched last year? Avesh, Tyagi, Nagerkotti, Umran, Khaleel, Mavi, Hangargekar, Bawa, Ravi - They all could immensely benefit from such a programme.

 

These senior mediocre washed up pacers shouldn't have a free run in the side.

[nsareen]

 
 
 
in tests Bumrah averages 19.24 from 12 tests in 2018 and 2019. This is superb !
He averages 27.25 from 15 tests from 2020 onwards.  This is just about ok. 
 
In ODIs, Bumrah averages 21.9 till 2019.
From 2020 onwards he averages 75.71 ... now that's correct .. a freaking 75.71
 
 
In terms of speeds, he used to average 139 kph + in tests in 2018 and 2019.  
 
From 2020 onwards he averages around 137 kph in tests.
 
Plus his bounce has reduced in the last 6 months.
 
He needs to recognize this fact and take corrective steps. 

if he continues to play all formats non stop, this will be trend in the future too.. his workload needs to be reduced , to make him ready and able for big tournaments.. but don’t think there is such a vision for fast bowlers..


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[express bowling]

46 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Wonder where the BCCI is with Troy Colley and the pacers project which was to be launched last year? Avesh, Tyagi, Nagerkotti, Umran, Khaleel, Mavi, Hangargekar, Bawa, Ravi - They all could immensely benefit from such a programme.

 

These senior mediocre washed up pacers shouldn't have a free run in the side.

 

 

I was wondering on the same lines.

 

But the real issue is ... even if they develop, will they be picked ?

 

The way Saini bowled in the Unofficial Tests in SA, if merit was the criterion, he should have been the 4th pacer behind Bumrah, Siraj and Shami. 

 

But Umesh played as usual and gave away 4 runs per over in both innings. This despite him doing badly in most tests in SENA for years. While Saini was not even in the squad. 

[Lone Wolf]

I mean is there any way we can end trundler love culture in India? 

Indian Fans across SM hail Bhuvi as some ATG...  King of yorkers or something.   Chahar is supposedly a Wasim Akram in the making.  Chahal is already a ATG among spinners. 

 

Guys like Saini Umran Prasidh are called run machines disrespected.  Nobody knows about Tyagi.  Avesh is laughed about.  Harshal Patel is everyone's flavor of the season. 

How will we end this trundler loving culture? 

[Mesky99]

9 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

I mean is there any way we can end trundler love culture in India? 

Indian Fans across SM hail Bhuvi as some ATG...  King of yorkers or something.   Chahar is supposedly a Wasim Akram in the making.  Chahal is already a ATG among spinners. 

 

Guys like Saini Umran Prasidh are called run machines disrespected.  Nobody knows about Tyagi.  Avesh is laughed about.  Harshal Patel is everyone's flavor of the season. 

How will we end this trundler loving culture? 

Similar perceptions were created in 2011/14 guys like dinda, Aaron, Awana, Rahul Shukla, Abu nechim were consistently mocked whereas Mohit sharma, Vinay Kumar, Srinath arivind, dhawal Kulkarni were all hailed as great swing and seam bowlers. We wasted Sudip tyagi in 2009/10 for mediocre Vinay Kumar, Mithun etc

[Dery]

What speeds did Hardik Pandya 2.0 bowl ?

[tweaker]

Inspire of Saini,Prasidh Siraj  ,Bhubaneshwar ,Chahar ,Shardul are playing

One of Prasidh ,Saini should have played yesterday.

Bumrah ,Shardul should have rested after the test series

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

I mean is there any way we can end trundler love culture in India? 

Indian Fans across SM hail Bhuvi as some ATG...  King of yorkers or something.   Chahar is supposedly a Wasim Akram in the making.  Chahal is already a ATG among spinners. 

 

Guys like Saini Umran Prasidh are called run machines disrespected.  Nobody knows about Tyagi.  Avesh is laughed about.  Harshal Patel is everyone's flavor of the season. 

How will we end this trundler loving culture? 

Its a mixed bag

Edited January 20, 2022 by Suhaan

[Mosher]

9 hours ago, Vijy said:

when a cupboard is on the bare side, you should give them chances. Tyagi, Mavi, Dayal are three more I forgot to mention. And last, but not least, Hangu.

 

I don't consider Avesh to be borderline trundler provided that he is fit and bowling with full intensity. I have seen him bowl at low speeds on occasion, but he has also bowled consistently in high 130s (min) at other times. Would like to hear what @express bowling and @Mosher also think?

Yes Avesh can be up and down in pace. Some spells he is pretty quick and bouncy but on some days starts to trundle. Maybe a fitness and rythym issue.

[AKane]

8 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Siraj is the most ready white ball pacer we have among the new lot. He bowls 138 k to 148 k in white ball cricket with great accuracy, great yorrkers, decent slower balls, movement and a good bouncer. Can bowl both at the start and in the death overs equally well. 

 

Among the next in line ... I think Prasidh is the pacer who should be given a lot of chances.  This is because he brings to the table a quality that Team India lacks. And that is getting steep bounce at 135 k to 145 k or even higher. It would not be fair to judge his temperament based on T20 matches. He could well be like Shami, who does well in Tests and ODIs.

 

The next pacer who really interests me is Hangargekar. He too gets a lot of natural bounce and is probably bowling 135 k to 145 k at age 19. Plus he is a strongly built lad which means it will be easier for him to hit the deck hard and get bounce for a long time. He can be the ideal No.8 across formats and can be a much better replacement for Shardul. I want the BCCI to show a bit of vision and fast track him. Select him for India A.

 

The USP of Umran Malik's skiddy 150 kph pace must be kept in mind by the BCCI too. Give him.as many India A matches as possible and can be tried on ODIs again st the really weak teams.

 

Kartik Tyagi has the pace, bounce, height, attitude and temperament. I hope he is developed with special care by the BCCI.

 

Avesh Khan interests me only as a T20I prospect as of today. He has a habit of dropping pace in the longer formats and has fitness issues ... and the heaviness of his deliveries have decreased drastically. If he bowls with effort in T20s then and only then should be be tried in ODIs.

 

Yash Dayal has height, bounce, swing and probably pace too. He does well in domestics and is a left armer. Must be tried for our A-team. 

 

These are the new pace prospects I am looking forward to.

 

Can you imagine Aus/Eng/NZ with these many options? They would "rule" the roost in cricket.

 

Our people try their hardest to find an excuse not to use the options....just leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

 

There is a reason why India is where it is in the world. This thing is not unique to cricket but permeates every facet of the darn country.

[AKane]

6 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

I mean is there any way we can end trundler love culture in India? 

Indian Fans across SM hail Bhuvi as some ATG...  King of yorkers or something.   Chahar is supposedly a Wasim Akram in the making.  Chahal is already a ATG among spinners. 

 

Guys like Saini Umran Prasidh are called run machines disrespected.  Nobody knows about Tyagi.  Avesh is laughed about.  Harshal Patel is everyone's flavor of the season. 

How will we end this trundler loving culture? 

You can't .... it is a genetic thing.

 

Some people are warriors and some are sheep. We are sheep. Historically we have proven it. 

 

I wish it were not so.

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, AKane said:

You can't .... it is a genetic thing.

 

Some people are warriors and some are sheep. We are sheep. Historically we have proven it. 

 

I wish it were not so.

Lol it would be true if we don't have players..  But we do.  Our fans are too dumb to understand fast bowling & are mostly busy in hailing mediocre players...  Same is the case with Poyzz as they worship Babar's meaningless soft runs...  This is called being sheep. 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, AKane said:

 

Can you imagine Aus/Eng/NZ with these many options? They would "rule" the roost in cricket.

 

Our people try their hardest to find an excuse not to use the options....just leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

 

 

I think one big issue is that, the Senior and established players have formed a core group, a coterie.  

 

They have realised that everyone is going to grow old and lose ability. And it is in their own interests to save each other's backs. 

 

They don't want to allow new entrants as it would harm the interests of the inner coterie guys.

 

This is probably the primary reason why Ishant is still surviving despite losing fitness and Umesh is still being picked in overseas tests. And to achieve this, the upcoming young quicks are being sacrificed.

 

 

Quote

There is a reason why India is where it is in the world. This thing is not unique to cricket but permeates every facet of the darn country.

 

The Private Sector in India has improved by leaps and bounds. Especially so regarding the listed companies ... because there is accountability. If they don't perform then the shareholders will roast them.

 

The BCCI, being a non-profit organisation in theory, and not being in the listed space as a result, has no accountability to the public. They can do whatever they want and they are doing it. And this has permeated to the big shot players too, as long as they do not harm the BCCI's interests.

 

Choosing the best possible Indian 11 and performing optimally in international cricket is obviously not the prime objective of the Team Managements, irrespective of the personnel.

Edited January 20, 2022 by express bowling

[express bowling]

8 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

I mean is there any way we can end trundler love culture in India? 

Indian Fans across SM hail Bhuvi as some ATG...  King of yorkers or something.   Chahar is supposedly a Wasim Akram in the making.  Chahal is already a ATG among spinners. 

 

Guys like Saini Umran Prasidh are called run machines disrespected.  Nobody knows about Tyagi.  Avesh is laughed about.  Harshal Patel is everyone's flavor of the season. 

How will we end this trundler loving culture? 

 

Most of the trundler lovers are people who have never played with a proper cricket ball. They have either played with a tennis ball or not played at all.

 

Once a person actually bats against a bowler bowling with a hard cricket ball, he or she understands that pace and bounce are the biggest issues in cricket.