Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[speedheat]

forever what you say here has been said and debated about a bazillion times here, its all done and dusted. I will try to reduce the number of pages this thread will go with your responses and space jizz crowds responses. Many, much more accomplished sophisticated fashionable trundler lovers have said a few things in the past and pace jizz crowd usually responds in a particular fashion.  I will summarize.

 

Zak is a trundler, he is our greatest ever - No, he started as 136 -148, york,swing , then became 137-142 gun, then 132-138 diminished yet very skilled test bowler. It depends on where you pick your videos from.

 

Srinath was not fast - No he was much quicker to his contemporary bowlers and often was faster than the then fastest Donald/Klusner etc and he was slower than only Akthar in a series but then Akthar and Lee left all who everbowled for a period when they had their 160 k feud.

 

Trundlers are good if not better, pace is not the only thing - No one is discounting accuracy, people are just stressing that India needs to find lads who can combine pace with accuracy.

 

I am intellectual, so will support brain over bran and appear sophisticated and be fashionable - sport needs brains with lots of bran, and sophistication equality fairness dont mean much without results in sport.

 

Bhuv is cute, he has nice eyes - he is good when conditions aid him, ask him to eat some protein.

 

 

 

Wonderful post!! You explained and answered all the questions beautifully but I bet you this guy forever Indian will never agree he is of some old trundler love mentality

[speedheat]

forever what you say here has been said and debated about a bazillion times here, its all done and dusted. I will try to reduce the number of pages this thread will go with your responses and space jizz crowds responses. Many, much more accomplished sophisticated fashionable trundler lovers have said a few things in the past and pace jizz crowd usually responds in a particular fashion.  I will summarize.

 

Zak is a trundler, he is our greatest ever - No, he started as 136 -148, york,swing , then became 137-142 gun, then 132-138 diminished yet very skilled test bowler. It depends on where you pick your videos from.

 

Srinath was not fast - No he was much quicker to his contemporary bowlers and often was faster than the then fastest Donald/Klusner etc and he was slower than only Akthar in a series but then Akthar and Lee left all who everbowled for a period when they had their 160 k feud.

 

Trundlers are good if not better, pace is not the only thing - No one is discounting accuracy, people are just stressing that India needs to find lads who can combine pace with accuracy.

 

I am intellectual, so will support brain over bran and appear sophisticated and be fashionable - sport needs brains with lots of bran, and sophistication equality fairness dont mean much without results in sport.

 

Bhuv is cute, he has nice eyes - he is good when conditions aid him, ask him to eat some protein.

 

 

 

Wonderful post!! You explained and answered all the questions beautifully but I bet you this guy forever Indian will never agree he is of some old trundler love mentality

[speedheat]

forever what you say here has been said and debated about a bazillion times here, its all done and dusted. I will try to reduce the number of pages this thread will go with your responses and space jizz crowds responses. Many, much more accomplished sophisticated fashionable trundler lovers have said a few things in the past and pace jizz crowd usually responds in a particular fashion.  I will summarize.

 

Zak is a trundler, he is our greatest ever - No, he started as 136 -148, york,swing , then became 137-142 gun, then 132-138 diminished yet very skilled test bowler. It depends on where you pick your videos from.

 

Srinath was not fast - No he was much quicker to his contemporary bowlers and often was faster than the then fastest Donald/Klusner etc and he was slower than only Akthar in a series but then Akthar and Lee left all who everbowled for a period when they had their 160 k feud.

 

Trundlers are good if not better, pace is not the only thing - No one is discounting accuracy, people are just stressing that India needs to find lads who can combine pace with accuracy.

 

I am intellectual, so will support brain over bran and appear sophisticated and be fashionable - sport needs brains with lots of bran, and sophistication equality fairness dont mean much without results in sport.

 

Bhuv is cute, he has nice eyes - he is good when conditions aid him, ask him to eat some protein.

 

 

 

Wonderful post!! You explained and answered all the questions beautifully but I bet you this guy forever Indian will never agree he is of some old trundler love mentality

[kira]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

And so the respect for Sakib grows in India, he just ensured a few years of IPL career with this fair compliment to Yadav.

Both shakib and yadav play for kkr, he's just praising his ipl mate, no big deal

[fineleg]

Kohli overbowled Umesh Yadav for long spell of 9 overs. Give him 4 over (maybe 5) spells. Use him in bursts.

[Vilander]

10 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

statistically shakib is probably their best test batsman over the last 5 yrs

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=runs;spanmin1=21+Oct+2011;spanval1=span;team=25;template=results;type=batting

 

yeah thats true, but purely on yesterdays game Sakib may have been trying to counter attack he came through as beaten for pace and swing by Yadav but got the bad balls and a few lucky edges and but Muss guys middled a lot from Ishant but was troubled a bit by bounce.

[speedheat]

foreverindian is not wrong, if you bowl short ,wide ,onto the pads at 140k in int cricket you will struggle better to be accurate at 135.

 

Accuracy is useless if bowled with 131 to 135 k you will get spanked

[vishalvirsingh]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

He is Indias fastest ever, he was hitting 142 in the last series of his career in 2003 WC.

I am mention srenath arvind as under 135k ...javagal srinath probably bowled his last international over at 140+.

I met him once I m 6ft n I looked like a kid to him...he must be 6 4".

[Forever Indian]

44 minutes ago, speedheat said:

 

Wonderful post!! You explained and answered all the questions beautifully but I bet you this guy forever Indian will never agree he is of some old trundler love mentality

Yeah if I am some Trundler lover then you must be some Speed gun orgasmer

 

I have posted like a hundred times which you chose to ignore that speed is just one aspect of a bowler and we should see what the whole package is like before judging a bowler. 

[Vilander]

7 hours ago, Forever Indian said:

When Zak was an established bowler and for most of his career his speed was 135 to 140k. Ofcourse the odd balls would be above 140k but the average speed was just around 135 to 138k. Kapil was not slow but not above 140K on average as the poster suggested.

 

A skilled 135k bowler will always trump an unskilled 140k bowler. Speed is just another weapon in a bowler's armoury and not the only one.

 

So saying anyone bowling below 140K should automatically be kicked out is plain stupidity. You never judge a bowler with just one facet.

so this is the root post. Obviously responding to vishalveers dont want <140 fast bowlers for India.

 

The key is  what is 135k bowler and what is 140k bowler ?

 

A dumbed down classification would be as below.

 

140 bowler has a stock delivery ranging around 138k and bowls between 135-148 - called as Fast bowler as an improvement gets called express when he has ability to hit a spell off 150k deliveries with acceptable accuracy, i don't remember seeing anyone with a 145k stock delivery except Brett lee and for a period sami in LOIs (the pakistani one), Akthar had better peaks but often would become 136 in his second spell. Most contemporary great fast bowlers like Bond,Steyn often had stock deliveries in range of 138-142 but could obviously hit 150 when they want to in a particular spell either to rough up the middle order in post lunch session or set the tone in the first hour or crush the tail or some epic one on one against the opposition gun bat to prevent him from taking the game away, this is what differentiates bowlers like Umesh/Ishant from them, they seem not to be able to do it even if they want, Aaron has potential to do it if he has the skill to be accurate first. So Umesh/Ishant often end up not being called fast bowlers even if they seem to have that speed.

 

135k bowler probably has a stock delivery of about 132 and can hit 140 when he wants to but not be able to or even if able is not able to sustain accuracy at 140+ effort balls in a spell of say 3 overs minimum. - Many great bowlers of past have been here, Glen Mgrath comes to mind, i never saw him swing or bowl fast but he was so accurate. Then you have the swing merchants from all around the globe Zak,Anderson etc did not need uber pace to get things done.

 

Then there are guys who have a 130 or 128 stock delivery and hit upto 138 effort balls, when they diminish to 128 -135 and if they end up in a flat non swing pitch, they get called trundlers. Some manage to parley with swing and/or phenomenal accuracy like Vaas from past or Philander but some wither away like Mohit/Unadkat for example.

 

So i think its just a misunderstanding on how we classify, i dont think forever and the pace gang are saying two different things actually. Pace gang acknowledges the 135 bowlers and sophisticated trundler gang fail to see the diff between the 128 bowlers and 135 bowlers.

[speedheat]

Yeah if I am some Trundler lover then you must be some Speed gun orgasmer:giggle:

 

I have posted like a hundred times which you chose to ignore that speed is just one aspect of a bowler and we should see what the whole package is like before judging a bowler. 

 

I ignored you're post because they we're meaningless had no logic In it many here tried to convinced you but you never listened and you calling zaheer khan was a fast as a myth is ridiculous to be honest and your talking as if this accurate trundleers have done wonders to us but good thing is dhoni now has retired as skipper and trundler love mentality like you is fading away

[Vilander]

39 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

I am mention srenath arvind as under 135k ...javagal srinath probably bowled his last international over at 140+.

I met him once I m 6ft n I looked like a kid to him...he must be 6 4".

ahh got it...

[Forever Indian]

1 hour ago, speedheat said:

 

I ignored you're post because they we're meaningless had no logic In it many here tried to convinced you but you never listened and you calling zaheer khan was a fast as a myth is ridiculous to be honest and your talking as if this accurate trundleers have done wonders to us but good thing is dhoni now has retired as skipper and trundler love mentality like you is fading away

I have made my points sufficiently clear. 

[Pollack]

4 hours ago, Vilander said:

He is Indias fastest ever, he was hitting 142 in the last series of his career in 2003 WC.

He was talking of Sreenath Arvind. Trundler plays for RCB.

[Cricketics]

Umesh, even though can be really threatning with the new ball, actually bowled better with the old ball. In fact most our seamers did including Ishant.

 

I want Umesh to open the bowling now though and learn to get used to the swing, because he plays usually ahead of Ishant and Bhuvi and when we play 3 spinners, he will be asked to open the bowling again with Shami. If he can control the swing, then Umesh af 135k also can be very threatning. It's about slight adjustments. 

 

I can see Umesh bowling Warner around the wicket from an angle. He has a good run up. Needs to keep getting used with the new ball now. 

[Cricketics]

5 hours ago, Vilander said:

He is Indias fastest ever, he was hitting 142 in the last series of his career in 2003 WC.

I was at the stadium at Kotla when Srinath was bowling in that Kumble test match when Kumble took 10 wickets at Kotla. Srinath bowled faster than most Pakistani bowlers in the game. He was 140+ for sure that day through out his spells. Some edges of Ijaz Ahmed and co were flying, thanks to the pace of Srinath. He was at his peak sill that time and of course during 1996. 

[Vilander]

8 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

I was at the stadium at Kotla when Srinath was bowling in that Kumble test match when Kumble took 10 wickets at Kotla. Srinath bowled faster than most Pakistani bowlers in the game. He was 140+ for sure that day through out his spells. Some edges of Ijaz Ahmed and co were flying, thanks to the pace of Srinath. He was at his peak sill that time and of course during 1996. 

he was something when you consider his fellow team mates venky and Mohanty etc, i read somewhere that people convinced him to a animal protein diet to enable his strength training and he complied at substantial inhibition.

[Cricketics]

Just now, Vilander said:

he was something when you consider his fellow team mates venky and Mohanty etc, i read somewhere that people convinced him to a animal protein diet to enable his strength training and he complied at substantial inhibition.

May be. I still don't buy the whole animal diet fact. 

[Vilander]

2 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

May be. I still don't buy the whole animal diet fact. 

well legumes and kale/brocoli + spirulina could be a good veggie protein diet but would still lack some amino acids and creatine could be a problem . Eggs and Whey could be a very decent animal protein diet. Animal protein need not necessarily mean red meat or even poultry or Fish but those are more easily available obviously.

[Rightarmfast]

1 hour ago, Cricketics said:

I was at the stadium at Kotla when Srinath was bowling in that Kumble test match when Kumble took 10 wickets at Kotla. Srinath bowled faster than most Pakistani bowlers in the game. He was 140+ for sure that day through out his spells. Some edges of Ijaz Ahmed and co were flying, thanks to the pace of Srinath. He was at his peak sill that time and of course during 1996. 

Yes, Srinath bowled express in that series. Only 2nd to Shoaib, as he was even in the 99 WC series. Rameez Raja in his commentary in the kolkatta test had commented that ' Its not easy to play against the pace of someone like Javagal Srinath or Waqar Younis'.