Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Vilander]

9 hours ago, Suhaan said:

If only Boobie consistently picked wickets upfront

Or stopped bowling pies at the death. 

[Nikhil_cric]

10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

 

140+ swinging less isn't a secret. 80-84 mph is the best pace to get swing. The quicker you bowl, less it swings. You need to release the ball to swing. The reason Steyn was so good. He would bowl 130-135 while trying to swing the ball with new ball and 145 when it's not swinging.

What that podcast said was that there is an even bigger difference than usual when going over the 140 kph mark. 

 

This new batch of kookaburra balls (2021 onwards) is swinging quite a lot upfront especially in October conditions in Australia. 

 

Above 140 kph, the levels of swing are probably similar to the previous batch. 

 

So there is value in cutting down pace and focusing on swing on the PP atleast. 

 

Also, that part about Steyn is wrong. At his absolute peak (2007-2011) , Steyn could swing the kookaburra even in the 140-145 kph region because of the incredible snap imparted by his wrists. 

 

It's what made him such an outlier. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Nikhil_cric

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

 

So there is value in cutting down pace and focusing on swing on the PP atleast. 

 

Ball swings for 3 or 4 overs and not after that.

 

Not throughout PP.

[rkt.india]

7 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

What that podcast said was that there is an even bigger difference than usual when going over the 140 kph mark. 

 

This new batch of kookaburra balls (2021 onwards) is swinging quite a lot upfront especially in October conditions in Australia. 

 

Above 140 kph, the levels of swing are probably similar to the previous batch. 

 

So there is value in cutting down pace and focusing on swing on the PP atleast. 

 

Also, that part about Steyn is wrong. At his absolute peak (2007-2011) , Steyn could swing the kookaburra even in the 140-145 kph region because of the incredible snap imparted by his wrists. 

 

It's what made him such an outlier. 

Wrist Snap doesn't make the ball swing.

[Nikhil_cric]

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Ball swings for 3 or 4 overs and not after that.

 

Not throughout PP.

In the India Pakistan match at the MCG, there was swing throughout the first 10 overs just in the PP.  This new kookaburra, given the roght conditions is swinging a lot more than it used to between late 2013 to 2020. 

Obviously it swings more in the first few overs. No denying that.  

[Nikhil_cric]

6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Wrist Snap doesn't make the ball swing.

When you bowl with an angled seam with the wrist snapping right behind the seam, there will be Magnus effect which moves the ball as well in addition to whatever swing is available. 

This will be directly proportional to the force exerted on the ball. 

 

When measuring swing angle , they don't distinguish how much of the lateral movement is because of swing and how much is because magnus effect. 

 

Steyn swung the ball more than anyone not named Trent Boult and he did at much higher average speeds. Also I don't think he angled the seam as much as Boult does. 

 

So yes, his exceptional wrist execution did make a difference

 

[Suhaan]

30 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

When you bowl with an angled seam with the wrist snapping right behind the seam, there will be Magnus effect which moves the ball as well in addition to whatever swing is available. 

This will be directly proportional to the force exerted on the ball. 

 

When measuring swing angle , they don't distinguish how much of the lateral movement is because of swing and how much is because magnus effect. 

 

Steyn swung the ball more than anyone not named Trent Boult and he did at much higher average speeds. Also I don't think he angled the seam as much as Boult does. 

 

So yes, his exceptional wrist execution did make a difference

 

Not with over spin,may help spinners to get dip and drag

[express bowling]

53 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

In the India Pakistan match at the MCG, there was swing throughout the first 10 overs just in the PP.  This new kookaburra, given the roght conditions is swinging a lot more than it used to between late 2013 to 2020. 

Obviously it swings more in the first few overs. No denying that.  

 

 

That was a rare happening and probably the only match I have seen this happen in recent times.

 

Happened probably due to cloud cover.

[Suhaan]

11 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Angle makes a big difference,malinga got outswing over 140k due to his action. With bumrah his inswingers are bigger compared to his outswinger,even though both of his releases are good.

Yes, exception few pacers like him
But snap of wrists cause overspin,in case of spinners it dips due to time of flight

 

[Nikhil_cric]

54 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

That was a rare happening and probably the only match I have seen this happen in recent times.

 

Happened probably due to cloud cover.

This T20 World Cup has seen more swing than any T20 World Cup since 2010.

 

In the last 2 years at the Oval, there were 2 ODIs , SL in 2021 and India in 2022. There was more swing in the first 10 overs of these 2 ODIs than any ODI since 2013 at the Oval.

 

Even one of the T20's in England, Bhuvaneshwar and Arshdeep destroyed England with record levels of swing. 

 

This is not a one off. 

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

That was a rare happening and probably the only match I have seen this happen in recent times.

 

Happened probably due to cloud cover.

This T20 World Cup has seen more swing than any T20 World Cup since 2010.

 

In the last 2 years at the Oval, there were 2 ODIs , SL in 2021 and India in 2022. There was more swing in the first 10 overs of these 2 ODIs than any ODI since 2013 at the Oval.

 

Even one of the T20's in England, Bhuvaneshwar and Arshdeep destroyed England with record levels of swing. 

 

This is not a one off. 

 

Check Jarrod Kimber's videos on YouTube about the decline in PP batting in the last 2 years and he talks about the new kookaburra having an extra layer of lacquer 

[Nikhil_cric]

48 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Yes, exception few pacers like him
But snap of wrists cause overspin,in case of spinners it dips due to time of flight

 

Fast bowlers get backspin on the ball not overspin or topspin. 

 

With backspin,  the ball does not dip, it rather floats fuller than a ball without backspin would. But on bouncing I would rear up higher than you expect. 

 

However , an angled seam and putting spin with that angle would have a horizontal component as well.

 

This would create drift with the angle and therefore maximizes lateral movement in the air as well

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

This T20 World Cup has seen more swing than any T20 World Cup since 2010.

 

In the last 2 years at the Oval, there were 2 ODIs , SL in 2021 and India in 2022. There was more swing in the first 10 overs of these 2 ODIs than any ODI since 2013 at the Oval.

 

Even one of the T20's in England, Bhuvaneshwar and Arshdeep destroyed England with record levels of swing. 

 

This is not a one off. 

 

Check Jarrod Kimber's videos on YouTube about the decline in PP batting in the last 2 years and he talks about the new kookaburra having an extra layer of lacquer 

do share that video , love jarrod kimber's work

[Suhaan]

26 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

get backspin on the ball not overspin

Yes,i meant that just chose wrong term,but what you are talking about wrist snap desnt add substantial to swing,it is almost same for regular bowlers all the factors come into picture their as well 

Only peculiar thing it does is extract extra kick from the surface

 

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, MultiB48 said:

https://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1160615/how-kookaburra-balls-came-to-rule-the-world

 

 

 

 

He says they have reenforced the seam ,than add extra lacquer on the white ball.But kookaburra hasn't officially confirmed anything.Then there is the snehal Pradhan article in 2018 where she hints about it.

 

 

 

This change happened in the 2020/21 season. I believe JK also has a graph showing decline in PP batting numbers as well.  They changed the red kookaburra as well. I believe the BG Trophy we played was the first series with the new kookaburra red ball. 

 

 

There was an article which pretty much confirmed that the red ball had been modified . 

 

Nothing about the white ball though it is pretty clear it's significantly different from what it used to be. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Nikhil_cric

[the don]

Most balls bowled at 140+ in 2022

1-Pakistan 43%
2-Srilanka 18%
3-England 17%
4-Australia 14%
5-Newzealand 11%

 

 

india have a serviceable medium pace attack but gets the job done for them albeit not very exciting.
 

[Suhaan]

34 minutes ago, the don said:

Most balls bowled at 140+ in 2022

1-Pakistan 43%
2-Srilanka 18%
3-England 17%
4-Australia 14%
5-Newzealand 11%

 

 

india have a serviceable medium pace attack but gets the job done for them albeit not very exciting.
 

No SA?

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, the don said:

Most balls bowled at 140+ in 2022

1-Pakistan 43%
2-Srilanka 18%
3-England 17%
4-Australia 14%
5-Newzealand 11%

 

 

india have a serviceable medium pace attack but gets the job done for them albeit not very exciting.
 

 

 

Do you feel like boasting about your pace after losing to Zimbabwe and getting bounced out by our supposed medium pacers  in 2 recent matches  !!!!

 

The purpose of 140 k+ bowling is to win big series and tournaments. When Indians started bowling 140 k+ In tests we Won 2 Test Series in Australia and Drew a Test Series in England. And we felt happy.  

 

As a Fast bowling fan, I feel like hiding the above data.

Edited October 28, 2022 by express bowling

[the don]

1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

No SA?

They are at number 6.

Rabada rarely bowls quick nowadays and parmell and ngidi arent quick. Nortje has pace.

[the don]

55 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Do you feel like boasting about your pace after losing to Zimbabwe and getting bounced out by our supposed medium pacers  in 2 recent matches  !!!!

 

The purpose of 140 k+ bowling is to win big series and tournaments. When Indians started bowling 140 k+ In tests we Won 2 Test Series in Australia and Drew a Test Series in England. And we felt happy.  

 

As a Fast bowling fan, I feel like hiding the above data.

140 plus deliveries are not the reason for our defeats. Against india shaheen was trundling and got hit, rauf conceded six of slower deliveries.

Shaheen got hit vs zimb but wasnt bowling 140 plus. 
These bowlers have won us games with their pace. Shaheen bowling over 140 is a beast, wasim was bowling 145 yesterday and got 4 wickets. Learn to dissect the stats. That sort of pace is an asset and keeps us competitive, no team has that arsenel.