Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Mosher said:

Yeah bro. Was about to comment the same thing when I heard his commentary. When Umran started bowling he started his crying about how pace opens up a lot hitting options and ****. No wonder Dhoni and Fleming get along so well at CSK.

He forgot pace also opens a lot of wicket taking options like today's game. On other bowlers, fin Allen wouldn't have mistimed it.

[Lone Wolf]

I Don't care much about T20s but Umran for all money has at least put Arshdeep behind him in ODI format. 

It's a shame he isn't in ODI squad vs BD. 

I guess Shami Siraj Shardul will play 1st ODI vs BD.  Hopefully they rest Shami & Try out Kuldeep Sen. 

Bowlers like Sen & Umran need to be given these halki series at first to build confidence. 

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Yes 145-150 is so comfortable to bat against. what about 130! That must be really uncomfortable to play. Indian ex-cricketers are so mentally backward. It's nauseating. That's why we need foreign coaches from Australia or South Africa who understand the value of pace.

Who are those foreign coaches, I thought India had best pace bowling attack under an Indian coach Bharat Arun.

[Vilander]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Yes 145-150 is so comfortable to bat against. what about 130! That must be really uncomfortable to play. Indian ex-cricketers are so mentally backward. It's nauseating. That's why we need foreign coaches from Australia or South Africa who understand the value of pace.

 

What is their issue why can't they forget themselves and let the new generation get rhetorical limelight. Lol

[Need4Speed]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Yes 145-150 is so comfortable to bat against. what about 130! That must be really uncomfortable to play. Indian ex-cricketers are so mentally backward. It's nauseating. That's why we need foreign coaches from Australia or South Africa who understand the value of pace.

As if trundlers ne toh jhaant faad di..jab bhi inke comments sunta hun..dimaag kharab hota hai..mediocre thought process hai inn selectors and old players mei..jaisi age waisi soch hai

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Who are those foreign coaches, I thought India had best pace bowling attack under an Indian coach Bharat Arun.

But he is not here and mentality doesn't change. Regarding foreign coach, let's try the one they have put in NCA Troy Cooley. Let us only play fast bowlers he identifies.

[tapandrun]

Rightly mentioned above NZ does not have rick history for high pace bowler, baring 2/3 bowlers they are as poor as Ind team in producing high pace bowlers.

 

As for Zaheer he was never in support of high pace bowler, seeing v.high pace bowlers invalidates his comments that Ind can not produce v.quick bowlers.

This was the time when all the sub-continent teams were producing high pace bowlers and Ind was banking big on 130ish bowlers.

Had Ind not won the WC Zaheer would have been considered as a v. mediocre, he got retired hurt after bowling 4 balls into a test match, and his fitness was always in question after few years of Intnl. cricket.

 

Low pace does not guarantee accuracy, we have seen this Bhuvi - not able to nail yorkers , bowling wides.

 

In this series only 1 Ind bowler looked like having some intent was Umran

 

  

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by tapandrun

[rkt.india]

9 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Rightly mentioned above NZ does not have rick history for high pace bowler, baring 2/3 bowlers they are as poor as Ind team in producing high pace bowlers.

 

As for Zaheer he was never in support of high pace bowler, seeing v.high pace bowlers invalidates his comments that Ind can not produce v.quick bowlers.

This was the time when all the sub-continent teams were producing high pace bowlers and Ind was banking big on 130ish bowlers.

Had Ind not won the WC Zaheer would have been considered as a v. mediocre, he got retired hurt after bowling 4 balls into a test match, and his fitness was always in question after few years of Intnl. cricket.

 

Low pace does not guarantee accuracy, we have seen this Bhuvi - not able to nail yorkers , bowling wides.

 

In this series only 1 Ind bowler looked like having some intent was Umran

 

  

 

But Zaheer himself started as a good pace bowler, bowling in 140s on his debut. One thing I agree, genuine pace at times may lack accuracy but among genuine quicks, we will have to identify the most accurate ones, make them learn other skills and harness with experience. There will always be a bit of trade off between pace and accuracy but that we will have to accept. Afterall, a Ferrari running on an F1 track at 300 kph is always difficult to control than a Maruti at 60 kph but people come to watch Ferraris in a race, not a Maruti.

Edited November 30, 2022 by rkt.india

[express bowling]

8 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

But Zaheer himself started as a good pace bowler, bowling in 140s on his debut. One thing I agree, genuine pace at times may lack accuracy but among genuine quicks, we will have to identify the most accurate ones, make them learn other skills and harness with experience. There will always be a bit of trade off between pace and accuracy but that we will have to accept. Afterall, a Ferrari running on an F1 track at 300 kph is always difficult to control than a Maruti at 60 kph but people come to watch Ferraris in a race, not a Maruti.

 

I must add that the objective of bowling in cricket is not accurate bowling. The objective is to get the batsmen out as quickly as possible so that they can't score enough runs to win.

 

Even in T20s, regularly taking wickets result in a smaller overall score rather than accurate containing bowling.

 

High pace and / or steep bounce with decent accuracy produces much more wickets than medium pace with higher accuracy. 

 

This is the part that the Indian cricket fraternity do not understand.

[Need4Speed]

As the old saying goes..attack is the best form of defence…we need pace and bouncy bowlers to attack…when we are going with line and length trundlers its defensive mindset..without wickets..its very likely that teams with end up thrashing you..

[singhvivek141]

10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

But Zaheer himself started as a good pace bowler, bowling in 140s on his debut. One thing I agree, genuine pace at times may lack accuracy but among genuine quicks, we will have to identify the most accurate ones, make them learn other skills and harness with experience. There will always be a bit of trade off between pace and accuracy but that we will have to accept. Afterall, a Ferrari running on an F1 track at 300 kph is always difficult to control than a Maruti at 60 kph but people come to watch Ferraris in a race, not a Maruti.

If I remember correctly, both Zak and Nehra got great support from Srinath when they started their career. Srinath used to give them advice and it helped them maintain their pace and accuracy (both Zak and Nehra confirmed that in various shows about the support they got from Srinath). Later when Srinath retired, Nehra succumb to fitness while Zak went horribly out of form, though due to the rise of Pathan and Balaji we still were competitive.
When Zak returned after his successful county stint, he was no longer a 140 kph bowler...but more of 135-140kph, which later came down in 130-132kph. After that only he started to give these idiotic comments.

[Suhaan]

29 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

If I remember correctly, both Zak and Nehra got great support from Srinath when they started their career. Srinath used to give them advice and it helped them maintain their pace and accuracy (both Zak and Nehra confirmed that in various shows about the support they got from Srinath). Later when Srinath retired, Nehra succumb to fitness while Zak went horribly out of form, though due to the rise of Pathan and Balaji we still were competitive.
When Zak returned after his successful county stint, he was no longer a 140 kph bowler...but more of 135-140kph, which later came down in 130-132kph. After that only he started to give these idiotic comments.

Zaheer only bowled over 140 for a brief period ie 2003 WC,where everyone looked insanely quick

Yes he started as a sharp(bowler),but soon went into his trundling ways then after

Just after 2000 , Australia came to India ,he was terribly slower(maybe due to injury or may not,had a back problem in Dec 2000 though but came back soon)

He was most fast medium to more medium fast bowler, Agarkar was sharper than him

Edited December 1, 2022 by Suhaan

[singhvivek141]

10 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Zaheer only bowled over 140 for a brief period ie 2003 WC,where everyone looked insanely quick

Yes he started as a sharp(bowler),but soon went into his trundling ways then after

Just after 2000 , Australia came to India ,he was terribly slower(maybe due to injury or may not,had a back problem in Dec 2000 though but came back soon)

He was most fast medium to more medium fast bowler, Agarkar was sharper than him

Yes, Zak always had this fitness issues...but he was a 140-143 bowler (peak pace) most of the time during 2000-2003 (2003 WC was bit weird and I doubt speed guns were accurate).
In 2004 Asia cup, when he won the semifinal against SL (which knocked Pakistan from the finale race)...he was barely hitting mid 130's (struggling with fitness + poor pace). 

Once he went through county stint and learnt new skills at a lower pace while maintaining fitness, he started advocating that Indian bodies are not made to sustain high pace. Although, Nehra even in 2016-2017 was hitting 138-139 and Umesh even now hits early to mid 140's, so his theory is wrong.

[express bowling]

Rauf, on test debut vs England, going at 8+ runs an over in his first spell. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by express bowling

[express bowling]

England 174 without loss in the 1st test against bowling pawarhaus

[Need4Speed]

I guess they hv made patta wkts as they made against Aus..to defend their batting collapses

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

If I remember correctly, both Zak and Nehra got great support from Srinath when they started their career. Srinath used to give them advice and it helped them maintain their pace and accuracy (both Zak and Nehra confirmed that in various shows about the support they got from Srinath). Later when Srinath retired, Nehra succumb to fitness while Zak went horribly out of form, though due to the rise of Pathan and Balaji we still were competitive.
When Zak returned after his successful county stint, he was no longer a 140 kph bowler...but more of 135-140kph, which later came down in 130-132kph. After that only he started to give these idiotic comments.

Zak was lazy. Fame got to him. He became fat by 2005, got dropped.

[Suhaan]

3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Yes, Zak always had this fitness issues...but he was a 140-143 bowler (peak pace) most of the time during 2000-2003 (2003 WC was bit weird and I doubt speed guns were accurate).
In 2004 Asia cup, when he won the semifinal against SL (which knocked Pakistan from the finale race)...he was barely hitting mid 130's (struggling with fitness + poor pace). 

Once he went through county stint and learnt new skills at a lower pace while maintaining fitness, he started advocating that Indian bodies are not made to sustain high pace. Although, Nehra even in 2016-2017 was hitting 138-139 and Umesh even now hits early to mid 140's, so his theory is wrong.

No he wasn't fast for first three years consistently,he was but in patches

 

Post 03 WC he was genuinely a 130-135 bowler

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

England 174 without loss in the 1st test against bowling pawarhaus

Their test attack is below BD,sorry we are heading towards same with current selector clowns and chief clown Dravid

[rkt.india]

10 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

No he wasn't fast for first three years consistently,he was but in patches

 

Post 03 WC he was genuinely a 130-135 bowler

Zak was 135-144 bowler from 2000-2003. He then got injured on Aus tour 2003-2004 in first test that kept him out and he also gained weight during that period.