Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[rollingstoned]

32 minutes ago, maniac said:

Nope. Srinath was not faster than Shami on an average speed  leave alone Ishant or Umesh.

 

We look ant old players with nostalgia.
 

Srinath looked quicker because of the other trundlers he played along with. Having said that he was no trundler and maybe had those express spells but overall on an average he was not that fast.

 

we have to really appreciate that 2011-2017 batch as the golden generation where we had 5 bowlers capable of 145+ and all playing at the same time- Ishant, Shami, Aaron, Umesh and Bumrah.

 

No past Indian bowler is close to their average speed. Agarkar was faster than Srinath on an average but still slower than those names.
 

Nowadays we see so many 140 bowlers in IPL etc that we don’t appreciate these  guys enough.

 

It’s an insult to Srinath himself and also the effort put by BCCI, MRF academy and coaches at a ground level to get us to this stage.  No I disagree that Srinath was faster than any of the fast bowlers i mentioned. May be an off speed gun error that’s about it but as someone who watched cricket from the 90’s I don’t buy this that Srinath was faster.

People like throwing this around while ignoring very real recency bias that often manifests itself casually. Claiming that Srinath very fast is not nostalgia at all nor disrespectful to recent strides that we have made in this regard.

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

FASTEST BALLS by INDIANS in international cricket ..  

 

Srinath          157.0 kph .. SA 1996-97

Umran           155.0 kph .. Today vs SL

Bumrah         153.3 kph  .. Australia 2018/19

Umesh          152.x kph 

Aaron            152.x kph

Ishant           152.x kph .. Australia 2011-12

Shami           151.0 kph .. vs NZ in 2016 

Nehra            149.7 kph .. 2003 WC

Sreesanth    149.x kph .. Australia 2008

Siraj              148.5 kph .. vs NZ 2021

Even as a big fan of srinath (which people on this thread know), I will add the disclaimer that the speed gun may not have been accurate for his reading. with that being said, I still think he did cross 150 a fair number of times in the period of 1992-1997 (including domestics).

 

thus, discounting the first reading, we can say that we were privileged to see umran hit 155. looking forward to much more from this remarkable young man.

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

just add Bumrah Tyagi Mohsin etc in the mix with Umran+Hardik..mouth watering..bowling lineup..

I hope that Avinash Singh Gurnoor Manit Jasrotia..prove in coming time that they can take on intnl cricket..

would be so lovely to see  padosis jumping on facing our pace battery 

 

 

Bumrah

Umran

Mohsin

Hardik

 

Will be a great T20I pace attack.

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Even as a big fan of srinath (which people on this thread know), I will add the disclaimer that the speed gun may not have been accurate for his reading. with that being said, I still think he did cross 150 a fair number of times in the period of 1992-1997 (including domestics).

 

thus, discounting the first reading, we can say that we were privileged to see umran hit 155. looking forward to much more from this remarkable young man.

 

 

If we do that, then we have to discount most speeds recorded from 1975 to 2010 or thereabouts.

 

I am all for it as most modern quicks looks faster to me to the naked eye. 

 

But it cannot be an one off discounting exercise for Srinath alone.

 

 

[Vijy]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Bumrah

Umran

Mohsin

Hardik

 

Will be a great T20I pace attack.

2 shorties in the team (boom & umran). maybe tyagi and prasidh should also be in the mix.

[tapandrun]

Ishant lost the steam too early in his career, he had all the check-boxes ticked and then he lost the pace.

 

Srinath was v.sharp plus tall, he was a better  and quicker version of Dushmantha Chameera (SL- RAF), had v.good zip, his balls does not seems to lose much pace after pitching in his hay days, but then he had shoulder injury due to excessive bowling and no real fast bowling help from the other-end, he had to lose the pace for longer spells and prolong his career.

 

In my opinion Aron and Umesh were the quickest of all both were genuine 145+ bowlers and  with some support they could have been 150 ish bowlers. I guess Aron was a tad faster than Umesh. But he had array of injuries during his career and v.less support from BCCI 

 

Credit to Umesh to keep his fitness top-notch and not giving up-on pace. He still clocks high 140s.

 

[Suhaan]

1 minute ago, Vijy said:

Even as a big fan of srinath (which people on this thread know), I will add the disclaimer that the speed gun may not have been accurate for his reading. with that being said, I still think he did cross 150 a fair number of times in the period of 1992-1997 (including domestics).

 

thus, discounting the first reading, we can say that we were privileged to see umran hit 155. looking forward to much more from this remarkable young man.

Srinath looked immediately genuinely fast against Aus coming back from shoulder surgery and visibly second fastest against Pakistan in that famous Kolkata test where Akhter took out Dravid and Tendulkar in consecutive deliveries

 

He was fast,proper fast for that era but there are good evidences like 98 Aus touring India,Pak touring India in 99 and WC 99

He was was bowling genuinely fast in some spells(overall quite fast)and undoubtedly second fastest only when Akhter also played

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

If we do that, then we have to discount most speeds recorded from 1975 to 2010 or thereabouts.

 

I am all for it as most modern quicks looks faster to me to the naked eye. 

 

But it cannot be an one off discounting exercise for Srinath alone.

 

 

yeah, if it applies to one, then it should apply to all.

 

I think the naked-eye test is good and quite reliable, but can be misleading at times. for instance, mitchell johnson looked faster to me than brett lee, but I think it has to do partly with the action - lee's was very sleek and well-oiled, and one could underrate it (perhaps more accurate comparison is lee vs tait)

 

of course, speed is not everything. bounce, release point, zip, angles, swing, seam, line-and-length, all matter too

Edited January 3, 2023 by Vijy

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Vijy said:

2 shorties in the team (boom & umran). maybe tyagi and prasidh should also be in the mix.

 

Bumrah is around 5'11" with extra long arms and a high release point. He always hits the bat in the splice area for this reason. Doesn't give the effect of a shorter pacer.

 

But I would definitely keep Tyagi, Prasidh and Sen in the mix. 

 

Tyagi can be really good in T20Is among this lot. 

[Vijy]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

Bumrah is around 5'11" with extra long arms and a high release point. He always hits the bat in the splice area for this reason. Doesn't give the effect of a shorter pacer.

 

But I would definitely keep Tyagi, Prasidh and Sen in the mix. 

 

Tyagi can be really good in T20Is among this lot. 

somehow I never felt boom was 5'11. must be because I tend to see most players below 6 as short; even though it's not.

[tapandrun]

2 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Srinath looked immediately genuinely fast against Aus coming back from shoulder surgery and visibly second fastest against Pakistan in that famous Kolkata test where Akhter took out Dravid and Tendulkar in consecutive deliveries

 

He was fast,proper fast for that era but there are good evidences like 98 Aus touring India,Pak touring India in 99 and WC 99

He was was bowling genuinely fast in some spells(overall quite fast)and undoubtedly second fastest only when Akhter also played

 

This was pretty much how fast bowler were operating back in 90s, bowl some v.quick and hostile spells at will and then bowls some average spells. 

 Bowling v.high pace for an elongated period of time only came with Akthar and Lee. who were quick all day long.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

One thing can be easily said.

 

That Umran is the first Indian pacer who can bowl 150k+ balls in almost every match he plays and 145 k+ seems to be his base speed in white ball cricket. 

[Suhaan]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

One thing can be easily said.

 

That Umran is the first Indian pacer who can bowl 150k+ balls in almost every match he plays and 145 k+ seems to be his base speed in white ball cricket. 

He has a very quick arm action,all thanks to his natural ability(fast twitch muscle fibres)

 

 

 

 

[Need4Speed]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

Bumrah is around 5'11" with extra long arms and a high release point. He always hits the bat in the splice area for this reason. Doesn't give the effect of a shorter pacer.

 

But I would definitely keep Tyagi, Prasidh and Sen in the mix. 

 

Tyagi can be really good in T20Is among this lot. 

thats why if Mohsin can bat..with Pandya + one spin AR..we can accomodate 3 more pacers..Tyagi Umran Bumrah

[rollingstoned]

14 minutes ago, express bowling said:

One thing can be easily said.

 

That Umran is the first Indian pacer who can bowl 150k+ balls in almost every match he plays and 145 k+ seems to be his base speed in white ball cricket. 

If he keeps Wood and Nortje company speed wise for a long enough period of time that will be just dandy. 

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, rollingstoned said:

If he keeps Wood and Nortje company speed wise for a long enough period of time that will be just dandy. 

he is younger than both; wood in particular will be gone soon.

[vishalvirsingh]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

UMRAN 155 kph

 

Dismisses Shanaka, the danger man.

this was the turning point of the match and no one- not evven one commentator has talked about this.

 

i cant understand why are they not speaking about this???

[vishalvirsingh]

though shivam mavi got 4 wickets , i was not too impresed with him.

 

Views please.......

[vishalvirsingh]

yuzi was beaten black and blue and harshal is a waste of time...i dont know why He is getting picked.

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

though shivam mavi got 4 wickets , i was not too impresed with him.

 

Views please.......

 

 

Very disappointed with Mavi.

 

Just gently putting the ball there at low pace, without any zip and bounce.