Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Umran should be compared with Lee and not Akhtar. 

 

Akhtar was a lot older than them when he clocked his peak speeds in 2002-2003.

Plus Akhtar tested positive for Nandrolone. PCB saved him from a long ban. ICC wasn't under WADA then and drug tests were lax.

[the don]

9 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Arey seedhe seedhe bolo Bhai, that he is fastest after Wood.

Itna ghuma phira ke kyu jawab dena.

 

Umran has clocked 150 multiple times today and in every match he played (except the start of his career when he was nervous). 

 

This shows the potential this kid has and how he has grown in confidence with little backing.

 

Kartik Tyagi is second fastest after Umran followed by Mohsin, Kuldeep Sen and some more young guns about whom the details are present in another thread.

Hope they're backed as well so that India can create a fearsome pace battery.

 

There are 4 other bowlers behind wood who have clocked the same speeds on different occasions and have hit a top speed in the same bracket. 
As for consistency Haris bowled 14 deliveries over 150 plus in a 24 bowl spell in asia cup out of ehich 6 were slower balls. 
So yes he is behind Wood alongside 3,4 others.

Edited January 11, 2023 by the don

[the don]

1 minute ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

Umran should be compared with Lee and not Akhtar. 

 

Akhtar was a lot older than them when he clocked his peak speeds in 2002-2003.

Plus Akhtar tested positive for Nandrolone. PCB saved him from a long ban. ICC wasn't under WADA then and drug tests were lax.

Akhtar even in 2000 clocked higher. 
speed guns werent even a regular back then.

[singhvivek141]

41 minutes ago, the don said:

Thats what you found out of a 12 plus year career. Sort of proves my point. 
Umran atm sits with lockie, Nortje, Rauf etc. Let him reach Wood level pace before we make comparisons with Akhtar.

i have always believed that if akhtar played t20 cricket in his prime around 2002 he d have clocked alien speeds. Heck he was clocking 156 kph in 2010 in t20: as an old injured bowler. Man was bowling 155 kph plus spells in test cricket in Pakistan.
 

2 things I would like to highlight

 

1. This is not the only occasion where Akhtar bowled under 140. I remember this match hence I checked on YouTube....there might be multiple other instances as well. It all depends on if they're included in the highlights package and is available on YouTube. So this is just a reference, not  his entire career history.

 

2. It is not necessity that player will clock his highest pace in T20's. Bumrah/Shami hit their peak in Tests, Umran so far is rapid in ODI's in comparison to T20's (excluding IPL here). Tait was thunderbolt in T20's.

 

It all boils down to fitness of bowler, and the format where he feels at ease with.

 

I think Akhtar did play couple of IPL seasons, but not sure what pace he clocked. 

[singhvivek141]

58 minutes ago, the don said:

Thats what you found out of a 12 plus year career. Sort of proves my point. 
Umran atm sits with lockie, Nortje, Rauf etc. Let him reach Wood level pace before we make comparisons with Akhtar.

i have always believed that if akhtar played t20 cricket in his prime around 2002 he d have clocked alien speeds. Heck he was clocking 156 kph in 2010 in t20: as an old injured bowler. Man was bowling 155 kph plus spells in test cricket in Pakistan.
 

Fair enough, I am not going to disagree here, all of them are similar pace wise. I would include even Mark Wood as he's not very far ahead of Umran and Umran is youngest of them, and chances of him gaining pace is much higher by the time he's around 24-27 age bracket.
 

[vayuu1]

3 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Not sure it this info was available to all the broadcasters, there was  confusion on SM as well till some Screenshots/photos came up.

There seems to be no Video of this on YT as well, so still not sure if that happened. even news outlets and article do not show any pics

 

Even Cricinfo or cricbuzz do not show anything like 156 kmph in 14th over, there is just 1 record of 150.6

 

Seems like it was reported as 147 on eng broadcaster and 156 on hindi broadcaster

 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/umran-mail-breaks-record-for-fastest-delivery-by-an-indian-but-hindi-english-broadcasts-create-major-confusion-with-different-speeds-watch-video-101673363489760.html

 

 

If a guy can crank 155 in previous match has cranked 157 in IPL don't see a reason to not believe he can't crank 156

[the don]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

Fair enough, I am not going to disagree here, all of them are similar pace wise. I would include even Mark Wood as he's not very far ahead of Umran and Umran is youngest of them, and chances of him gaining pace is much higher by the time he's around 24-27 age bracket.
 

Umran if he remains injury free will hit a peak where he will definitely overtake wood.

softball/tape ball bowlers gain pace as the bodies get used to the hard ball , his pace potential is limitless. Upto bcci how they manage him.

Edited January 11, 2023 by the don

[Nikhil_cric]

Watched a bit of the last T20I and happy to see the improvement in Arshdeep's run up. He is running in straighter with all his momentum going towards the stumps. Needs to keep working to get his action as efficient as possible. 

 

Disappointed to see that not much work has been done with Mavi. 

[speedracer]

4 hours ago, the don said:

Thats what you found out of a 12 plus year career. Sort of proves my point. 
Umran atm sits with lockie, Nortje, Rauf etc. Let him reach Wood level pace before we make comparisons with Akhtar.

i have always believed that if akhtar played t20 cricket in his prime around 2002 he d have clocked alien speeds. Heck he was clocking 156 kph in 2010 in t20: as an old injured bowler. Man was bowling 155 kph plus spells in test cricket in Pakistan.
 

No he wouldn't. In his sleep maybe. But he will have to wake up eventually.

[Rightarmfast]

17 hours ago, Adamant said:

Anyone saying that Umran clocks the same speed as a young Shoaib Akhtar is clueless to the core. 

 

Umran' peak speed is as good as Shoaib but Shoaib was consistently 147+ in his early days. 

Yes right! You mean the first ball of his spells used to be at 147, like everytime.. right?

Totally believe you have witnessed his pace first hand.

[speedracer]

8 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Yes right! You mean the first ball of his spells used to be at 147, like everytime.. right?

Totally believe you have witnessed his pace first hand.

Shoaib is the best. Bhest ever speedster. 

 

[MK55]

8 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Not sure it this info was available to all the broadcasters, there was  confusion on SM as well till some Screenshots/photos came up.

There seems to be no Video of this on YT as well, so still not sure if that happened. even news outlets and article do not show any pics

 

Even Cricinfo or cricbuzz do not show anything like 156 kmph in 14th over, there is just 1 record of 150.6

 

Seems like it was reported as 147 on eng broadcaster and 156 on hindi broadcaster

 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/umran-mail-breaks-record-for-fastest-delivery-by-an-indian-but-hindi-english-broadcasts-create-major-confusion-with-different-speeds-watch-video-101673363489760.html

 

 

yes I saw that over again. The speed on the English broadcast was different. But if u look at that over, the ball he clocked 156 was fuller and it did seem faster or at least as fast as the second ball that was clocked 151. Also the English broadcast missed speeds on 3 balls in in that over and there seemed to be a slightly longer delay in showing speeds on that ball (maybe?!). In fact that delivery was quite similar to the the ball that was clocked 155 in the T20s. So highly possible that the 156 one was correct and the other broadcast that showed all speeds in that over was correct.

 

Anyways, I’m sure Umran doesn’t care. He knows he can hit those speeds whenever. He just wants to bowl fast and accurately and get wickets as per his interviews. That’s how it should be. So that’s good hahaha

Edited January 11, 2023 by MK55

[MK55]

Btw I just wondered… the rest time between internationals is way too low these days. It’s just one day and these guys also have to travel in that. And it’s one series after the other back to back.
BCCI needs to plan things better. Very difficult for the express bowlers to rest adequately and stay strong with such schedules. 

[Vilander]

11 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

I think Akhtar did play couple of IPL seasons, but not sure what pace he clocked. 

135 to 148 but then he was retired. But even when active international he used to bowl several deliveries at around 138. But no one can dispute that he was the fastest bowler ever, barring Lee and Tait no one challenged him during or since. Not sure what people are defending here, bowling a few deliveries at 138 and then cranking to 155 when needed is once in a generation.

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Vilander

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

135 to 148 but then he was retired. But even when active international he used to bowl several deliveries at around 138. But no one can dispute that he was the fastest bowler ever, barring Lee and Tait no one challenged him during or since. Not sure what people are defending here, bowling a few deliveries at 138 and then cranking to 155 when needed is once in a generation.

 

 

Yes till the day these 3 retire they were express and even after retiring from the Intl cricket they were able to crank it upto 150s.

That particular era had some serious speed demons, though you can doubt the speed guns a bit which you can do for current ones as well, but at that time there were atleast 2 v.rapid bowlers in each team baring Ind.

 

WI - Best, Edwards, Tylor

Aus- Tait, Lee, Gillespie

Pak- Akthar, Sami

SA- Morkel, Styen, Ntini

NZ- Bond

 

And lost of those who can bowl 145-150 - Malinga, Flintof, Watson, Bichel

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by tapandrun

[express bowling]

10 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

Yes till the day these 3 retire they were express and even after retiring from the Intl cricket they were able to crank it upto 150s.

That particular era had some serious speed demons, though you can doubt the speed guns a bit which you can do for current ones as well, but at that time there were atleast 2 v.rapid bowlers in each team baring Ind.

 

WI - Best, Edwards, Tylor

Aus- Tait, Lee, Gillespie

Pak- Akthar, Sami

SA- Morkel, Styen, Ntini

NZ- Bond

 

And lost of those who can bowl 145-150 - Malinga, Flintof, Watson, Bichel

 

 

Gillespie, Ntini and Best were not rapid. They were mostly in the 135 to 145 k pace bracket and sometimes even slower. 

 

Bichel was mostly 135 to 140. 

Flintoff bowled 140 to 148 for a very short period.

Which Watson is this who bowled 145 to 150 ?

 

[Rightarmfast]

13 hours ago, the don said:

Thats what you found out of a 12 plus year career. Sort of proves my point. 
Umran atm sits with lockie, Nortje, Rauf etc. Let him reach Wood level pace before we make comparisons with Akhtar.

i have always believed that if akhtar played t20 cricket in his prime around 2002 he d have clocked alien speeds. Heck he was clocking 156 kph in 2010 in t20: as an old injured bowler. Man was bowling 155 kph plus spells in test cricket in Pakistan.
 

 

@the don  Bhai, Check this video from 99/2000 series. Akhtar was almost reaching his peak during this time. venue was Australia, cant better than that for fast bowlers. Occassion was competition against Australia, when a fast bowler gives his best. Check out the video from 7:40. See at what speed Akhtar bowls. 

@Adamant  buddy, wonder where those 147+ deliveries are.. because I couldnt see one ball above 145....

[Adamant]

2 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

 

@the don  Bhai, Check this video from 99/2000 series. Akhtar was almost reaching his peak during this time. venue was Australia, cant better than that for fast bowlers. Occassion was competition against Australia, when a fast bowler gives his best. Check out the video from 7:40. See at what speed Akhtar bowls. 

@Adamant  buddy, wonder where those 147+ deliveries are.. because I couldnt see one ball above 145....

He was bowling slower ones. 

[Rightarmfast]

18 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

Yes till the day these 3 retire they were express and even after retiring from the Intl cricket they were able to crank it upto 150s.

That particular era had some serious speed demons, though you can doubt the speed guns a bit which you can do for current ones as well, but at that time there were atleast 2 v.rapid bowlers in each team baring Ind.

 

WI - Best, Edwards, Tylor

Aus- Tait, Lee, Gillespie

Pak- Akthar, Sami

SA- Morkel, Styen, Ntini

NZ- Bond

 

And lost of those who can bowl 145-150 - Malinga, Flintof, Watson, Bichel

 

About right. Sami started off as a fast medium bowler. Used to bowl around 138-145ish during the period you are talking of. I think by about 2002-2003 he all of a sudden increased his pace. Ntini, as mentioned was about fast medium. Gillespie could be fast or express.. but wasnt consistent. Atleast not in 2000's.

[Rightarmfast]

7 minutes ago, Adamant said:

He was bowling slower ones. 

138 was a slower one? Interesting!

And I guess so was the ball at 145.. a slower one, right?

 

But I was almost believing he never bowled below 147.... I must have heard wrong.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Rightarmfast