Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[world-cricket]

54 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Zak told Indians can't bowl quick, did Umesh not proved him wrong by bowling quick for 10 years ?

Ishant Sharma is a cricketer but that doesn't mean he is 100% right...else we wouldn't have played likes of Bhuvi for so long over Shami.

Umesh was india's quickest but he also cut down on his pace ,like i said temperament is also required, which he never had .But the main point is that we lack ability ,that's why it's such a struggle .

[Austin 3:!6]

3 minutes ago, world-cricket said:

Umesh was india's quickest but he also cut down on his pace ,like i said temperament is also required, which he never had .But the main point is that we lack ability ,that's why it's such a struggle .

What struggle? Bowling fast without brain is no be all and end all. With the bowling resources we have, we won 2 back to back test series in Australia. With all the phaast bowlers Pakistan has, last time they manage to draw a test match there Miandad was still playing.

 

[world-cricket]

Kaverappa gets 5 wickets,nz is all out for 60 .How much would they have scored against pak.

[world-cricket]

1 minute ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

What struggle? Bowling fast without brain is no be all and end all. With the bowling resources we have, we won 2 back to back test series in Australia. With all the phaast bowlers Pakistan has, last time they manage to draw a test match there Miandad was still playing.

 

I have acknowledged that last few years were the  best in our history in terms of pace bowling, but now it's back to square 1.

[singhvivek141]

11 minutes ago, world-cricket said:

Umesh was india's quickest but he also cut down on his pace ,like i said temperament is also required, which he never had .But the main point is that we lack ability ,that's why it's such a struggle .

He cut down his pace because he is growing older..he is knocking 36 now, in reality maybe 38 or 39 because in UP and Bihar people usually shuffle age by 2 to 3 years....you can't expect him to bowl with same pace that he used to at age of 23.

 

Umesh from 2010-2015 was erratic but fast..he used to bowl in early to mid 140's effortlessly day in and day out. Unlike some pacers who will trundle in 130's after bowling 4 overs on trot..see his spell in Australia where was consistently hitting 146-148k. Even in ODi WC of 2015 he was  quick.

 

From 2015-2020 he usually bowls 135-140 with the new ball to allow to swing, once the ball get old he up his pace in 140-148 to generate reverse swing. This was his best period when he was the lead pacer in subcontinent conditions.

 

He started to slow down from 2021 and now has cut his pace because he is growing old. Umesh always had temperament of bowling fast, but no one can beat the age.

 

 

 

[Nikhil_cric]

54 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

NZ team looks best for fast bowling

Harshit, Mayank and Yudhvir....even Vaibhav is a decent option. Sandeep Sharma is the only trundler.

 

CZ has selected worse bowlers despite such a strong pool...Tyagi, Sen and Mohsin together would have been a treat. What was the point of selecting Aniket C 

 

SZ is full of Trundlers, WZ of ultra Trundlers.

I can't believe that Mohsin, Tyagi and Sen are not playing this tournament. It's absolutely shocking. Kuldeep has great List A stats and it's not even a question of selecting on potential in his case

 

South Zone and West Zone probably don't have a pool of extremely athletic lads to choose from. But it's unforgivable for NZ and CZ to do that. 

 

The worst part is not that, though.  The hyped young batsmen don't seem to be able to take apart the trundler-laden attacks of Saurashtra, Karnataka, and Mukesh Kumar. 

 

The Karnataka attack destroyed NZ in Duleep Trophy and now in Deodhar as well. 

 

It can't be a minefield of a pitch otherwise Jagadeesan and Kunnumal wouldn't have been able to score like they did.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

10 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I can't believe that Mohsin, Tyagi and Sen are not playing this tournament. It's absolutely shocking. Kuldeep has great List A stats and it's not even a question of selecting on potential in his case

 

South Zone and West Zone probably don't have a pool of extremely athletic lads to choose from. But it's unforgivable for NZ and CZ to do that. 

 

The worst part is not that, though.  The hyped young batsmen don't seem to be able to take apart the trundler-laden attacks of Saurashtra, Karnataka, and Mukesh Kumar. 

 

The Karnataka attack destroyed NZ in Duleep Trophy and now in Deodhar as well. 

 

It can't be a minefield of a pitch otherwise Jagadeesan and Kunnumal wouldn't have been able to score like they did.

 

 

SZ and WZ are both batting dominated teams...NZ is more of individual brilliance batters plus they also have to divide the quota as there are multiple states in NZ.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, world-cricket said:

Why would you arbitrarily select 5.5 years? is it because the numbers are fitting in nicely,

 

 

In any case Ishant hasn't played in a long time ,Bumrah too is missing for nearly a year.so it's basically umesh and shami .

 

 

It's not arbitrary. 

 

January 2018 is the month when Bumrah debuted and India had a good pace attack from then on. (  Even if you take the last 5 years, a common number, the results are very similar. ).

 

I accept that India had a poor pace attack before that in tests. In fact I have been strongly critical of that aspect. 

 

And Bumrah has missed just 1 SENA test in which a strong pace attack is needed. And he is coming back in a short time. 

[Lone Wolf]

Kaverappa is running through the domestics without sparing anyone...  Undercutter replacement for SA tour most likely & I am not complaining.  Could be 3-4ks quicker than him so definite upgrade. 

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I can't believe that Mohsin, Tyagi and Sen are not playing this tournament. It's absolutely shocking. Kuldeep has great List A stats and it's not even a question of selecting on potential in his case

 

South Zone and West Zone probably don't have a pool of extremely athletic lads to choose from. But it's unforgivable for NZ and CZ to do that. 

 

The worst part is not that, though.  The hyped young batsmen don't seem to be able to take apart the trundler-laden attacks of Saurashtra, Karnataka, and Mukesh Kumar. 

 

The Karnataka attack destroyed NZ in Duleep Trophy and now in Deodhar as well. 

 

It can't be a minefield of a pitch otherwise Jagadeesan and Kunnumal wouldn't have been able to score like they did.

 

 

Question, why are they not being selected to even zonal and Ranji teams.

 

All trundlers are playing this deodhar trophy.

[express bowling]

Kaverappa .... 5 wickets 

 

Tall .. open chested high arm action .. natural bounce.

 

 

https://www.bcci.tv/videos/5559865/prof-d-b-deodhar-trophy-2023-24-fantastic-five-red-hot-kaverappas-lethal-517?tagNames=2023/24

Edited July 24, 2023 by express bowling

[tapandrun]

Any particular reason/theory why Ind selectors at all domestic/Intnl level nt favouring 145 kmph+ bowlers- Are Rohit-Rahul Co. are totally against against any kind of pace.

Heard they were asking for Spinners' friendly wkts for WCs.

 

Tiyagi's name is often quoted here but he doesnot seems to play a lot of cricket in between IPLs (In IPLs too he hardly gets any chance) so they can not pick him.

 

Also in Emerging cup there was just 1 genuine fast bowler in Rana,  Rajwardhan is not an opening spell bowler.

 

 

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Any particular reason/theory why Ind selectors at all domestic/Intnl level nt favouring 145 kmph+ bowlers- Are Rohit-Rahul Co. are totally against against any kind of pace.

Heard they were asking for Spinners' friendly wkts for WCs.

 

Tiyagi's name is often quoted here but he doesnot seems to play a lot of cricket in between IPLs (In IPLs too he hardly gets any chance) so they can not pick him.

 

Also in Emerging cup there was just 1 genuine fast bowler in Rana,  Rajwardhan is not an opening spell bowler.

 

 

clear mandate from fatty pav and dravidiot; the latter is seen as some kind of overseas messiah, but he usually to regularly s**t his pants at playing in Oz (barring one series vs depleted attack) and SA. VVS, Tendy were better than him by far, and amarnath even slightly better than both

[Mosher]

6 hours ago, express bowling said:

Kaverappa .... 5 wickets 

 

Tall .. open chested high arm action .. natural bounce.

 

 

https://www.bcci.tv/videos/5559865/prof-d-b-deodhar-trophy-2023-24-fantastic-five-red-hot-kaverappas-lethal-517?tagNames=2023/24

Bro, Kaverappa has all the skills except pace. If only he was 5k faster he would have been a very good prospect. Read some article where his coach Sreenath Arvind said Kaverappa doesn't have much pace but he other skills like he can move the ball and get wickets. Still we have coaches like these in the system. Kaverappa doesn't have to be 140+ but with strength and conditioning training he can probably bowl 135-140 and with the bounce and movement he generates he would be a much better bowler.

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, Mosher said:

Bro, Kaverappa has all the skills except pace. If only he was 5k faster he would have been a very good prospect. Read some article where his coach Sreenath Arvind said Kaverappa doesn't have much pace but he other skills like he can move the ball and get wickets. Still we have coaches like these in the system. Kaverappa doesn't have to be 140+ but with strength and conditioning training he can probably bowl 135-140 and with the bounce and movement he generates he would be a much better bowler.

he is around 127-128 in domestic speed guns, so probably 131-132 in int'l speed guns. needs to put on 5-6 kph, which will take him to 136-138 kph range.

[tapandrun]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

he is around 127-128 in domestic speed guns, so probably 131-132 in int'l speed guns. needs to put on 5-6 kph, which will take him to 136-138 kph range.

 

Sub 135 kmph, do not think its a good prospect fr intnl cricket, will be thrashed in white ball  and the speeds will further drop in tests.

Edited July 25, 2023 by tapandrun

[world-cricket]

What type of batsmen are these ,cant handle 126-129 kph.

 

Garbage cricketers all around.

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, Mosher said:

Bro, Kaverappa has all the skills except pace. If only he was 5k faster he would have been a very good prospect. Read some article where his coach Sreenath Arvind said Kaverappa doesn't have much pace but he other skills like he can move the ball and get wickets. Still we have coaches like these in the system. Kaverappa doesn't have to be 140+ but with strength and conditioning training he can probably bowl 135-140 and with the bounce and movement he generates he would be a much better bowler.

 

Yes bro !  If Kaverappa can bowl 135 k to 140 k, he can be a top bowler with his height and bounce.  

 

I think he is bowling 130 k to 135 k.  Even Mukesh snd Unadkat are bowling those speeds amd don't think Kaverappa is slower than them. These domestic speed guns are trash. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by express bowling

[express bowling]

6 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Any particular reason/theory why Ind selectors at all domestic/Intnl level nt favouring 145 kmph+ bowlers-

 

 

Forget 145 k or 140 k .... there seems to be a clear instruction to leave out most 135 k + pacers too. Can see only 2 or 3 among the 6 teams. 

 

Only seamers who look extremely slow visually are getting picked. 

[tweaker]

What is the reason Sen,Tyagi,Mohsin are not even selected for Duleep and Deodhar trophy.

 

If the player gets injured the selectors select the player when he gets fit.Sen played odi against Bangladesh and got injured but if he is fit why he is not considered.He should have been in all the squad for the Windies series