A Thread for intellectuals

[randomGuy]

Would you say humility is a necessary condition for being an 'intellectual'?

[mishra]

this may help

–adjective 1. appealing to or engaging the intellect: intellectual pursuits. 2. of or pertaining to the intellect or its use: intellectual powers. 3. possessing or showing intellect or mental capacity, esp. to a high degree: an intellectual person. 4. guided or developed by or relying on the intellect rather than upon emotions or feelings; rational. 5. characterized by or suggesting a predominance of intellect: an intellectual way of speaking. –noun 6. a person of superior intellect. 7. a person who places a high value on or pursues things of interest to the intellect or the more complex forms and fields of knowledge, as aesthetic or philosophical matters, esp. on an abstract and general level. 8. an extremely rational person; a person who relies on intellect rather than on emotions or feelings. 9. a person professionally engaged in mental labor, as a writer or teacher. 10. intellectuals, Archaic . a. the mental faculties. b. things pertaining to the intellect.

[dial_100]

Would you say humility is a necessary condition for being an 'intellectual'?

Hell no. On the contrary, most of the intellectuals are very arrogant people. Reason enough to not become one. :cantstop:

[G_B_]

finally a thread for me...

[youngindia]

intellectuals have certain traits in my eyes. 1. passion for their fields of interest(usually 2-4) 2. a well above average thirst and respect for knowledge 3. ability to think at levels like ideology,vision, strategy which can confound many. 4. a tendency to think deep on issues ,well above average 5. can master complex issues better, relative to the crowd ,in their fields of proficiency 6. has raised his standard of critical thinking by stricter adherence to forming opinions on facts /evidence ....usually the mediocre crowd are prone to conspiracies and accepting rumors 7.Ability to read scholarly books by the best. 8.Tendency and interest to know things outside school books atleast by age 10. this to me is the initial serious sign which has to be developed by years of practice. Lot of boys want GK but only few actually do and achieve it.they are the intellectuals. 9. they have a tendency to heavily weigh people by their intellect how do you know? if you don't have highly learned parents or mentors nearby, I doubt one would know under the age of 13..you would be confounded why you are different from others and wonder what you are....it takes time and experience to figure out things bit by bit yes I have seen a few highly intelligent people who are not intellectuals...one was a serious computer enthusiast but boy was he as mediocre as many others otherwise..they usually liked to mingle in a crowd as well. i do not know whether their preference for social needs prevented them from being an intellectual or they were just too narrowly less gifted to be serious thinkers..but it does strike me ,all of them preferred the social experience. Intellectuals are individuals and hence there will be many differences among them.

[youngindia]

Correct me if I am wrong but what you guys are trying to say in simple terms is the person who uses his brain rather than feelings is either intellectual or on the path of being intellectual.

I don't think so.. there are intellectuals who are more biased than others. there are others who are more emotional than others..there is a oddball like sarmila bose who spends time defending the Pakistan army with her irrational bias towards bangladeshi sources.there are racist morons like chamberlain who was ofcourse the inspiration for many a german/nazi racist.

[Khalpat]

intellectuals have certain traits in my eyes. 1. passion for their fields of interest(usually 2-4) 2. a well above average thirst and respect for knowledge 3. ability to think at levels like ideology,vision, strategy which can confound many. 4. a tendency to think deep on issues ,well above average 5. can master complex issues better, relative to the crowd ,in their fields of proficiency 6. has raised his standard of critical thinking by stricter adherence to forming opinions on facts /evidence ....usually the mediocre crowd are prone to conspiracies and accepting rumors 7.Ability to read scholarly books by the best. 8.Tendency and interest to know things outside school books atleast by age 10. this to me is the initial serious sign which has to be developed by years of practice. Lot of boys want GK but only few actually do and achieve it.they are the intellectuals. 9. they have a tendency to heavily weigh people by their intellect how do you know? if you don't have highly learned parents or mentors nearby, I doubt one would know under the age of 13..you would be confounded why you are different from others and wonder what you are....it takes time and experience to figure out things bit by bit yes I have seen a few highly intelligent people who are not intellectuals...one was a serious computer enthusiast but boy was he as mediocre as many others otherwise..they usually liked to mingle in a crowd as well. i do not know whether their preference for social needs prevented them from being an intellectual or they were just too narrowly less gifted to be serious thinkers..but it does strike me ,all of them preferred the social experience. Intellectuals are individuals and hence there will be many differences among them.

This really does make sense. Thanks, a good observation.

[kruiser]

Those who prefer mental masturbation to the real thing, or are incapable or are afraid of the actual deed. sometime also referred to as "Rai Bahadurs" - only brave at giving advise (rai in hindi). You do not need to be intelligent to be labeled an intellectual. as long as you can pretend to understand about worldly topics, you have accomplished the mission. Case in point - Arnab Goswamy, et al.

[The Outsider]

Amusing that I came across this thread after reading 3 pieces on the Indian Express over the last few weeks which give a perfect example of what intellectualism is. Tavleen Singh wrote this piece in the Indian Express laden with Deewar logic and attacking Amartya Sen: http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/questions-for-a-nobel-laureate-3/ Amartya Sen responded with factual answers based on well defined references: http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/conversations-with-tavleen-singh-and-pratap-mehta/ Tavleen Singh wrote another article in response based on Deewar logic and personal attacks: http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/fifth-column-another-argument/ My prediction is that either Amartya Sen will not respond anymore realizing the kind of gutter fight Tavleen Singh is trying to drag him into or if he does it will be still along the lines of facts and opinions based off them like last time. It is pretty clear who the intellectual is out here. And yes, being an academic Bhagwati has criticized Sen's work but it has been done based on facts to form an opinion not Deewar logic and personal attacks. Unfortunately, India's right wing is dominated by the intellectual capacity of Tavleen Singh and worse who believe in Ganesha being a product of great plastic surgery rather than Bhagwati which would actually invite an intellectual debate.

[diga]

Amusing that I came across this thread after reading 3 pieces on the Indian Express over the last few weeks which give a perfect example of what intellectualism is. Tavleen Singh wrote this piece in the Indian Express laden with Deewar logic and attacking Amartya Sen: http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/questions-for-a-nobel-laureate-3/ Amartya Sen responded with factual answers based on well defined references: http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/conversations-with-tavleen-singh-and-pratap-mehta/ Tavleen Singh wrote another article in response based on Deewar logic and personal attacks: http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/fifth-column-another-argument/ .

Can you please care to expand on the Deewar logic & personal attacks in the second article by Tavleen singh for mere mortals like us?

[Crookbond]

Amusing that I came across this thread after reading 3 pieces on the Indian Express over the last few weeks which give a perfect example of what intellectualism is. Tavleen Singh wrote this piece in the Indian Express laden with Deewar logic and attacking Amartya Sen: http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/questions-for-a-nobel-laureate-3/ Amartya Sen responded with factual answers based on well defined references: http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/conversations-with-tavleen-singh-and-pratap-mehta/ Tavleen Singh wrote another article in response based on Deewar logic and personal attacks: http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/fifth-column-another-argument/ My prediction is that either Amartya Sen will not respond anymore realizing the kind of gutter fight Tavleen Singh is trying to drag him into or if he does it will be still along the lines of facts and opinions based off them like last time. It is pretty clear who the intellectual is out here. And yes, being an academic Bhagwati has criticized Sen's work but it has been done based on facts to form an opinion not Deewar logic and personal attacks. Unfortunately, India's right wing is dominated by the intellectual capacity of Tavleen Singh and worse who believe in Ganesha being a product of great plastic surgery rather than Bhagwati which would actually invite an intellectual debate.

Most people are incapable of putting statements in a bigger picture context and synthesizing things. Reading comprehension failure and lack of critical thought process further exacerbates these issues. Lets take this Bhagwati versus Sen debate. There has been a concerted effect to character assassinate Sen including his daughter because apparently he's anti-Modi. Little do people know that, Bhagwati-Panagriya (co authors of their book which criticize Amartya Sen) are friends with "secular" PM Manmohan Singh. Also, Sen rarely responds to Bhagwati as a person; only mentions about points. OTOH, Bhagwati makes full effort to indulge in ad hominem on Sen. Panagriya is a poster boy for Modi because he has praised the "Gujarat Model". Sen vs Bhagwati is also not battle of left wing vs right wing economists - Sen wants more liberalization and Bhagwati wants more state funding on education. Most people get lost in details and forget the higher order bit. Sen vs Bhagwati which turned into Modi vs Rahul Gandhi was a canonical example of this condition. Meanwhile, http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/after-his-very-warm-welcome-niti-aayogs-vice-chairman-arvind-panagariya-out-in-the-cold/

[Khalpat]

There has been a concerted effect to character assassinate Sen including his daughter because apparently he's anti-Modi. Little do people know that, Bhagwati-Panagriya (co authors of their book which criticize Amartya Sen) are friends with "secular" PM Manmohan Singh. Also, Sen rarely responds to Bhagwati as a person; only mentions about points. OTOH, Bhagwati makes full effort to indulge in ad hominem on Sen. Panagriya is a poster boy for Modi because he has praised the "Gujarat Model". Sen vs Bhagwati is also not battle of left wing vs right wing economists - Sen wants more liberalization and Bhagwati wants more state funding on education.

Don't tell me that Outty is not biased in his opinion. Look at his reply related to Tavleen Singh's rebut which is a lie , she has no where used Deewar analogy in her second reply and niether has she at any place taken personal jibe at Amartya. The reason he is rediculing Tavleen is just due to the fact that she is Pro-Modi. Character Assasination? Really? Which Intellectual has done character assasination. Now don't tell me the internet mob of BJP and AAP which circulates fake pictures on social media are intellectuals in your view. Clapping cannot be done with one hand sir. If people who are opposing someone just because he is anti-Modi then there are lot of people who oppose people just because he is Pro-Modi. I am very surprised to see that people are given tag of being intellectual or not being intellectual on the basis of their political ideology.

[Crookbond]

Don't tell me that Outty is not biased in his opinion. Look at his reply related to Tavleen Singh's rebut which is a lie ' date=' she has no where used Deewar analogy in her second reply and niether has she at any place taken personal jibe at Amartya. The reason he is rediculing Tavleen is just due to the fact that she is [b']Pro-Modi. Character Assasination? Really? Which Intellectual has done character assasination. Now don't tell me the internet mob of BJP and AAP which circulates fake pictures on social media are intellectuals in your view. Clapping cannot be done with one hand sir. If people who are opposing someone just because he is anti-Modi then there are lot of people who oppose people just because he is Pro-Modi. I am very surprised to see that people are given tag of being intellectual or not being intellectual on the basis of their political ideology.

Did you notice I talked about one aspect of being an intellectual viz. critical thinking? I used Bhagwati-Sen discussion as an example. I never mentioned a word about Tavleen Singh or trolls on the Internet. You missed my point by getting lost in detail.

[Khalpat]

Did you notice I talked about one aspect of being an intellectual viz. critical thinking? I used Bhagwati-Sen discussion as an example. I never mentioned a word about Tavleen Singh or trolls on the Internet. You missed my point by getting lost in detail.

I noticed it sir. And I agree too, the portion which I bolded and replied was

There has been a concerted effect to character assassinate Sen including his daughter because apparently he's anti-Modi.

This piece has nothing to do with critical or intellectual thinking. And its high time that the phrase "both sides are equally guilty" which we do after terrorist attack should be now used in this context also.

[Crookbond]

I noticed it sir. And I agree too, the portion which I bolded and replied was This piece has nothing to do with critical or intellectual thinking. And its high time that the phrase "both sides are equally guilty" which we do after terrorist attack should be now used in this context also.

I was trying to give a view of the difference between intellectual discussion versus a non-intellectual one. Sen-Bhagwati and Internet users both argued on left wing vs right wing economics. However, Sen-Bhagwati discussion was intellectual but Internet discussions weren't. The reason? The focus of a discussion was on content than personalities. Online users turn it into a binary world - false dilemma fallacy. This is because they lack the ability or don't under critical thinking.

[coffee_rules]

Don't tell me that Outty is not biased in his opinion. Look at his reply related to Tavleen Singh's rebut which is a lie ' date=' she has no where used Deewar analogy in her second reply and niether has she at any place taken personal jibe at Amartya. The reason he is rediculing Tavleen is just due to the fact that she is [b']Pro-Modi. Character Assasination? Really? Which Intellectual has done character assasination. Now don't tell me the internet mob of BJP and AAP which circulates fake pictures on social media are intellectuals in your view. Clapping cannot be done with one hand sir. If people who are opposing someone just because he is anti-Modi then there are lot of people who oppose people just because he is Pro-Modi. I am very surprised to see that people are given tag of being intellectual or not being intellectual on the basis of their political ideology.

From the second reply..

It gives me another chance to reiterate that Dr Sen and his fellow travellers and their leftist ideology are to blame for keeping the vast majority of Indians poor, hungry and illiterate for decades.

She's blaming Sen for India's present condition and all of Congress policies since Independence.

One final question that I did not ask last week out of respect for so eminent a personage. Why did Dr Sen never consider coming back to India to teach? Could it be because the state of higher education in our ancient land has deteriorated so seriously that even the best of our universities count among the worst in the world? - See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/fifth-column-another-argument/#sthash.qKc0NbLN.dpuf

Unnecessary personal jibe coming in from nowhere in the debate. The problem with his method adopted by Pro-Modi people is worrisome. Anybody can oppose Modi on their terms. There is no need to get back with personal comments and retorts. The basic retort for anti-Modi people has to be the mandate given by people despite all the skeptics and time to be given to Modi for changing policies. It will not happen overnight. In a year, there is a some change affected from previous UPA govt, verdict is not out yet in either case. Atleast It is heading in the right direction with talk of effectiveness of governance instead of blind appeasement policies from a mute leader.

[The Outsider]

From the second reply.. She's blaming Sen for India's present condition and all of Congress policies since Independence. Unnecessary personal jibe coming in from nowhere in the debate. The problem with his method adopted by Pro-Modi people is worrisome. Anybody can oppose Modi on their terms. There is no need to get back with personal comments and retorts. The basic retort for anti-Modi people has to be the mandate given by people despite all the skeptics and time to be given to Modi for changing policies. It will not happen overnight. In a year, there is a some change affected from previous UPA govt, verdict is not out yet in either case. Atleast It is heading in the right direction with talk of effectiveness of governance instead of blind appeasement policies from a mute leader.

Thanks. In addition, there is the Deewar logic around Dreze where he has been called a 'comrade' of Amartya Sen and somehow Sen is supposed to be responsible for Dreze's actions. This is after Sen has already categorically denied being a formal or virtual advisor. In academics, over a long career successful academicians collaborate with tens and sometimes hundreds of other academicians. It doesn't mean that they are responsible for the actions and responsibilities of others beyond their collaborative research. If Tavleen Singh has an issue with any publication of Sen with Dreze, she should have spelt it out giving proper references.

[The Outsider]

Most people are incapable of putting statements in a bigger picture context and synthesizing things. Reading comprehension failure and lack of critical thought process further exacerbates these issues. Lets take this Bhagwati versus Sen debate. There has been a concerted effect to character assassinate Sen including his daughter because apparently he's anti-Modi. Little do people know that, Bhagwati-Panagriya (co authors of their book which criticize Amartya Sen) are friends with "secular" PM Manmohan Singh. Also, Sen rarely responds to Bhagwati as a person; only mentions about points. OTOH, Bhagwati makes full effort to indulge in ad hominem on Sen. Panagriya is a poster boy for Modi because he has praised the "Gujarat Model". Sen vs Bhagwati is also not battle of left wing vs right wing economists - Sen wants more liberalization and Bhagwati wants more state funding on education. Most people get lost in details and forget the higher order bit. Sen vs Bhagwati which turned into Modi vs Rahul Gandhi was a canonical example of this condition. Meanwhile, http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/after-his-very-warm-welcome-niti-aayogs-vice-chairman-arvind-panagariya-out-in-the-cold/

Well put. The foremost thing that hits me is the lack of simple reading comprehension. As examples, 'it is possible' will be interpreted as either he negates it or supports it, pointing out to Deewar logic as Sen did in his article without using the words is understood to be a justification of things brought in through the Deewar logic etc.

[panther]

Not intellectual but I like reading the long post by the Adarsh liberals of ICF.

[Khalpat]

Intellectual snobbery is fine and dandy but if it used only to prove that a certain section of society or particular person is idiot then something is definitely not correct.