Team india for Zimbawe tour 2016

[youngindia]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

Most of the players who have made it big in Indian cricket have established themselves in the Indian team and done well  before the age of 25.  

 

There is a clear pattern to the careers of previously successful players and you are not all showing awareness of those.

 

bringing in the cases of the likes of tendulkar gavaskar is pointless and even in their cases i can make a case for gradual evolution....exceptional is precisely that...exceptions

 

you cannot pick the no 1 or no2 players and look for a average rule.

 

i have already said one or two exceptional youngsters (who have proved fast developers as well) can be given a chance

 

that means the likes of kohli,williamson, steve smith (and possibly sarfraz,jaffer and prithvi shah in the future years)

 

There is difference between making a debut and achieving a reasonable amount of maturity

 

for example there is difference between federer making his atp debut and becoming a true  no 1.(only from 2003 end)

 

sampras was a true no 1 only from july 1993 though he won us open in 1990

 

as you can see, the initial years after debut (developing stage) and the attainment of their true level took some years where they suffered defeats due to the flaws they had then.

 

federer suffered against hewitt, nalbandian, henman,agassi etc in his developing stage...after achieving his final level, he started beating the same players

 

gavaskar was a true reliable world class player only from 1976...

 

azhar didnt make a century against any major side for three years after his exceptional debut and he was a clown against the fast bowling of WI..

 

laxman had problems establishing himself until 2001 despite a debut in 1996...dravid and ganguly didn't make heavy contributions in series against the stronger attack like aus, sa and pakistan during the 1996-1999 period and they were 24 as debutants anyway ...

 

even tendulkar took 6 years to make a ODI 100 

 

even kohli was exposed in england and had to keep working to remove flaws.

 

if that's the case of a very fast developer like kohli , think about the others.

 

ponting was given a consistent run...but he was not the same batsman of 2003 until several years later...

martyn,hayden,langer,steve waugh ,all failed in their early 20's and came back years later

 

the indian players  merely got chances and had a free run because of the lack of talent,.and it still holds true in fast bowling..

 

so dont confuse a long  consistent run for maturity in the initial years  which only came after a while

 

The talent pool NOW will show a different trend...

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

 

[youngindia]

U25 year olds are relatively immature products who have lots of  flaws and will be inevitably exposed.

 

The opposition will expose you in the initial years (and even thereafter) and you have to rise up to the challenge by solving each defeats/flaws.

 

thats pretty much the story.for vast majority of the batsmen

 

thats the way it works. Even for all time greats who progress at a very fast pace.

 

The expectations from younger players have outstandingly absurd and horrible to say the least..

 

one bad season- manish pandey is dead, unmukt chand is dead,sanju samson is dead..in the future, sarfraz will be dead

 

all pointless posts...

Edited May 26, 2016 by youngindia
edt

[maniac]

7 hours ago, express bowling said:

Most of the players who have made it big in Indian cricket have established themselves in the Indian team and done well  before the age of 25.  The list includes names like Gavaskar, Vishwanath, Bedi, Chandrasekhar,  Kapil, Shastri, Azharuddin, Kumble, Tendulkar, Dravid, Ganguly, Yuvraj ( ODIs ), Sehwag, Dhoni ( ODIs ), Kohli , Shami ( ODIs )  etc..   Maturing as a player at a younger age is not that rare.

 

There have been a few like Prasanna, Srinath, Vijay, Rohit ( ODIs ), Ishant , Ashwin etc. who have done well only after they have turned 25.

 

Different players mature at different ages.   Some even end up losing form after they turn 30 like Gambhir.

 

Pacers often lose fitness and pace after they become mentally mature. 

 

It is better to consider players on a case to case basis  and pick them accordingly.  

 

A better approach is not picking under-developed players for team India based on just potential.  Let them develop their game and then choose them whatever the age.  The only exceptions to this can be lower order sloggers for LOIs where SR and form are more important .....and Zimbabwe tours which are  for player development  ( due to the low quality of their team ).

 

 

 

 

zaheer was better in his later career when he lost some pace but improved his skills immensely, so was srinath.

 

sir aggy never lost pace....as good as a ODI bowler he was ....his career highlight was 3 yrs before his career ended in 2004

 

ishant is a much better bowler now.

 

 Nehraji is a much more shrewd now than he ever was.

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, maniac said:

zaheer was better in his later career when he lost some pace but improved his skills immensely, so was srinath.

 

sir aggy never lost pace....as good as a ODI bowler he was ....his career highlight was 3 yrs before his career ended in 2004

 

ishant is a much better bowler now.

 

 Nehraji is a much more shrewd now than he ever was.

 

Players obviously mature with age but their skills rarely develop if they keep on playing our domestic cricket only. For that, playing international cricket for a few years is important.

 

Also. different players mature at different ages. I had given examples of 16 Indian players who had either been consistent performers or have played multiple impact knocks at a young age.

 

There is also the problem of pacers losing fitness and pace when they mature mentality. 

 

We are now seeing 20 to 22 year olds like Mustafizur, Bumrah and Rabada bowling very maturely .  

 

There have been top players like Kapil who deteriorated after they became 27 or thereabouts.  He was at his peak between 19 and 25.

 

It is better to pick players based on their level of development rather than age.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2016 by express bowling

[Shoonya]

India squad for Zimbabwe Tour (ODIs/T20Is): MS Dhoni (C), KL Rahul, Faiz Fazal, Manish Pandey, Karun Nair, Ambati Rayudu, Rishi Dhawan, Axar Patel, Jayant Yadav, Dhawal Kulkarni, Jasprit Bumrah, Barinder Sran, Mandeep Singh, Kedar Jadhav, Jaidev Unadkat, Yuzvendra Chahal. -

 

Dhoni's likely first choice 11 which he will play in 3 ODIs and 3 T20s

KL Rahul

Faiz Fazal

Manish Pandey

Ambatti Rayudu

Kedar Jadhav

Dhoni

Rishi Dhawan

Axar Patel

Jaspreet Bumrah

Dhawal Kulkarni

Barinder Sran

[express bowling]

8 hours ago, youngindia said:

 

There is a clear pattern to the careers of previously successful players and you are not all showing awareness of those.

 

bringing in the cases of the likes of tendulkar gavaskar is pointless and even in their cases i can make a case for gradual evolution....exceptional is precisely that...exceptions

 

you cannot pick the no 1 or no2 players and look for a average rule.

 

i have already said one or two exceptional youngsters (who have proved fast developers as well) can be given a chance

 

that means the likes of kohli,williamson, steve smith (and possibly sarfraz,jaffer and prithvi shah in the future years)

 

There is difference between making a debut and achieving a reasonable amount of maturity

 

for example there is difference between federer making his atp debut and becoming a true  no 1.(only from 2003 end)

 

sampras was a true no 1 only from july 1993 though he won us open in 1990

 

as you can see, the initial years after debut (developing stage) and the attainment of their true level took some years where they suffered defeats due to the flaws they had then.

 

federer suffered against hewitt, nalbandian, henman,agassi etc in his developing stage...after achieving his final level, he started beating the same players

 

gavaskar was a true reliable world class player only from 1976...

 

azhar didnt make a century against any major side for three years after his exceptional debut and he was a clown against the fast bowling of WI..

 

laxman had problems establishing himself until 2001 despite a debut in 1996...dravid and ganguly didn't make heavy contributions in series against the stronger attack like aus, sa and pakistan during the 1996-1999 period and they were 24 as debutants anyway ...

 

even tendulkar took 6 years to make a ODI 100 

 

even kohli was exposed in england and had to keep working to remove flaws.

 

if that's the case of a very fast developer like kohli , think about the others.

 

ponting was given a consistent run...but he was not the same batsman of 2003 until several years later...

martyn,hayden,langer,steve waugh ,all failed in their early 20's and came back years later

 

the indian players  merely got chances and had a free run because of the lack of talent,.and it still holds true in fast bowling..

 

so dont confuse a long  consistent run for maturity in the initial years  which only came after a while

 

The talent pool NOW will show a different trend...

 

No matter what age a player debuts at  internationally,  in 98 % of the cases he is going to take a few years to reach his peak potential. In case of cricketers, especially from countries like India with low competition domestic cricket, they never develop fully unless they get to play international cricket for some years.  ( If Gavaskar had debuted in 1976 at age 26 or 27  then he might have taken till 1980 to reach his peak game ).

 

The same process applies to tennis players too. A  few years in the international circuit helps them become complete players. If Federer had started playing in the circuit at age 26 he would not be a great player from year one because he has had a few years playing at a lower level..  

 

I had mentioned 16 Indian cricketers ( out of say 26 or 27 above average cricketers in this time span ). ...not just Sachin and Gavaskar, who had played consistently for India or had many many impact knocks before they turned 25. ( not just debuted early )

 

The best approach is not choosing a cricketer to play for India till the time he develops his game reasonably and not pick players based on just potential.  Let them have a few good years in domestic cricket . Whether that happens at 22  or  29 or  33 would vary from player to player and decisions should not be based on age but the maturity and development of the player.

 

p.s - Zimbabwe has a very weak cricket team and Zim tours are basically treated as player development tools like A tours.  Most players chosen will not get a chance to play for India when we play the other 8 top nations. So, the considerations that apply to players picked for normal Indian cricket teams do not apply for this tour.

Edited May 27, 2016 by express bowling

[PSB_Zone]

We needed to look at krunal pandya ,Bhuvi & shami`...rishi,  raydu & faiz are ridiculous selection.

Dhoni went to play so that rahul or jadhav are not able to cement there places as wicketkeeper batsmen.
Axar got selected as he allowed dhoni to take 23 of his over to win the match with old mate vijay as captain  
helping msd to regain some pride...From this lot , playing x1 and batting order should be-----

Rahul/Nair/Pandey/Raydu/Jadhav/Dhoni/Axar/Dhawal/Chahal/Bumrah/sran

[gakgupta]

Giving opportunities to u 24 guys does not generally work...these guys are years from maturing their game and have a long way to go in removing their flaws.....hence chances have been given to 25+ guys

 

the younger guys have plenty of time to remove the chinks in their game..people shud not mistake high averages in a domestic season for maturity..

 

that does not mean the flaws in their game have been removed..it will take years before they are at full potential..full potential in batting is at 27-30 years of age

 

guys like rayudu and uthappa have been exposed before, but have worked hard for years to remove all those flaws..they r solid and reliable now

 

howevr this does not excuse the odd selection of faiz...thats a bit too far...however the general trend to select more seasoned players is logical in the real world.

 

rahul is regarded as the odd youngster who has progressed fast

 

i think this will be the case for indian cricket from now on...if you look at the aussies, only guys like chappell,border,waugh,ponting ,smith got chances at a young age....others are pretty much older when they play their first test

 

there are bound to  up and downs before they get their chance...look at manish pandey for example.

 

kohli and now potentially rahul are the 0.5 minority...they are not a majority

 

giving chances to the odd tendulkar or kohli at an early age and giving chances to others at around age 25 or 27 is a sound logical strategy,

 

 

 

OMG....finally there is some sensible post....very very well articulated....

Lol...people are asking for selection of sarfaraz, Nathu, krunal......it's really really crazy

IPL seems to be benchmark for national selection.....

IPL will showcase the talent of a particular player but it will not make them finished products.....

One odd of selection could be okie (like Hardik ) but IPL itself shouldn't become benchmark.....BTW, Hardik and Yousuf experiment has failed so far....

Personally I feel Hardik can be huge boon if properly groomed but he has to learn hard for next 3 years

I loved ur post on Manish....n full credit goes to selectors for properly grooming him......for me he is kohli 2.0.....very calm and collective and extremely good at chasing.....btw they should limit him to only one Dayers

I loved selection of Karun for tests....he got the opportunity at the right time....

I hope selectors don't mess up with Rohit selection in tests.....his one day form could be lost......he has the game to become at test player but not the mind set

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[vishalvirsingh]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 11:58 AM, Shoonya said:

India squad for Zimbabwe Tour (ODIs/T20Is): MS Dhoni (C), KL Rahul, Faiz Fazal, Manish Pandey, Karun Nair, Ambati Rayudu, Rishi Dhawan, Axar Patel, Jayant Yadav, Dhawal Kulkarni, Jasprit Bumrah, Barinder Sran, Mandeep Singh, Kedar Jadhav, Jaidev Unadkat, Yuzvendra Chahal. -

 

Dhoni's likely first choice 11 which he will play in 3 ODIs and 3 T20s

KL Rahul

Faiz Fazal

Manish Pandey

Ambatti Rayudu

Kedar Jadhav

Dhoni

Rishi Dhawan

Axar Patel

Jaspreet Bumrah

Dhawal Kulkarni

Barinder Sran

Pace attack looks OK at least for Zimbabwe.

Rishi Dhawan though is not a good all rounder but can still bowl OK though he is no great shakes.

Rishi or Jayant Yadav - one of them will be played. Rishi is Better.

 

it could be 3:2 combo too.. 3 pacers and 2 Spinners.

 

I feel FAIZ may be replaced by Mandeep or Karun Nair at some stage as Faiz could play SLow or get OUT.

other two batsman are more suitable for ODI or T20.

 

AXAR is a defensive spinner but keeps control where as yuzvendra is attacking but leaks runs.

 

Pandey, Raydu and Kedar will be Solid.

 

Bumrah will ROCK and be the STAR.

Dhwal and Barinder have also improved amd will surely get first chance ahead of unadkat.

Jaydev will have to fight out for a place in eleven with BRAN and Dhwal.

 

 

[vishalvirsingh]

I think Manish Pandey, Raydu and Kedar will score well and among Pacers - all 3 will do well( bumrah, Bran and now improved Dhwal)

 

All others are going to be average..axar will give less runs but wont get many wickets.

 

Bran , Dhawal and Bumrah may get hard wickets offering lil SWING and all these 3 guys are intelligent to take advantage....

 

Bumrah can bowl upto 145k..bran and dhwal can bowl 133 to 141k.

 

if trundler under 133k DHWAL comes up then he wont succeed.

[vishalvirsingh]

BUmrah and BRAN will be DEADLY and pick a lot of wickets in this Series.

 

I see BUMRAH too be the highest wicket taker in this Series and BRAN will also be close.

 

DHWAL and UNADKAT are weak bowlers though DHwal has improved quite a bit( though I don't regard him too high still)

 

[vishalvirsingh]

On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 3:21 PM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

in the above team- Rahul is not good enuf to play for india in ODI, he should not have been picked.

 

Faiz fazal will not be picked in future for sure as I don't see him as a potential long term india player- shreyas Iyer was better.

 

Hardik pandya had clearly out played Rishi dhwan so why was rishi selected over Hardik- do they wanna say that Rishi is a better bet than Hardik??

Jayant Yadav - is not a genuinely good bowler and is not even a good batsman...he will be dropped like NEGI ..hardik's brother kunal could have been a better bet as kunal has more potential.

 

dhwal and jaydev are not going to play in an INDIAN final ODI team in future so why are they picked?

 

chahal - is not an international level spinner , his physique is weak and his fielding is average. he will fail in ODI.

 

 

 

 

[Forever Indian]

11 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

in the above team- Rahul is not good enuf to play for india in ODI, he should not have been picked.

 

Faiz fazal will not be picked in future for sure as I don't see him as a potential long term india player- shreyas Iyer was better.

 

Hardik pandya had clearly out played Rishi dhwan so why was rishi selected over Hardik- do they wanna say that Rishi is a better bet than Hardik??

Jayant Yadav - is not a genuinely good bowler and is not even a good batsman...he will be dropped like NEGI ..hardik's brother kunal could have been a better bet as kunal has more potential.

 

dhwal and jaydev are not going to play in an INDIAN final ODI team in future so why are they picked?

 

chahal - is not an international level spinner , his physique is weak and his fielding is average. he will fail in ODI.

 

 

 

 

I agree on all the above except for Chahal. Whatever opportunities he has got against international players in IPL he has performed exceptionally well so can't say he is not international level right now. Also the LOIs team badly needs a leg spinner, so either him or Mishra should be in the team and we know Mishra's physique and fielding is even worse

[sandeep]

Seems like Hardik pandya is type cast as a T20 player and a batsman who bowls a bit. Plus he had a very poor IPL. Unfortunate because he definitely needs to improve as a bowler and this tour could have been useful.

[renjith]

Gurkeerat singh should have been given more chances as well. Seems like selectors have no planning at all.

[kruiser]

Where is the match thread???

[kruiser]

Likely 11

 

KL Rahul,

Manish Pandey,

Karun Nair

Mandeep Singh,

Ambati Rayudu/  Kedar Jadhav,

Mahendra Singh Dhoni (captain and wk),

Rishi Dhawan/ Jaydev Unadkat/ Sran

Jasprit Bumrah

Axar Patel.

Jayant Yadav/ Yuzvendra Chahal

Dhawal Kulkarni

[vishalvirsingh]

12 minutes ago, kruiser said:

Likely 11

 

KL Rahul,

 

Manish Pandey,

 

Karun Nair

 

Mandeep Singh,

 

Ambati Rayudu/  Kedar Jadhav,

 

Mahendra Singh Dhoni (captain and wk),

 

Rishi Dhawan/ Jaydev Unadkat/ Sran

 

Jasprit Bumrah

 

Axar Patel.

 

Jayant Yadav/ Yuzvendra Chahal

 

Dhawal Kulkarni

 

I guess the likely 11 picked by DHONI will be

 

KL Rahul

Karun Nair

Manish Pandey

Ambati raydu

Kedar Jadhav

Dhoni

Rishi/ Jayant Yadav/Dhwal Kulkarni

yugendra Chahal

Axar Patel

Bran

Bumrah

 

[Mosher]

 Who will be the opener along with Rahul? Mandeep? Faiz?

Edited June 11, 2016 by Mosher

[Abhilash93]

 Who will be the likely opener along with Rahul? Mandeep? Faiz?

Mandeep