Yoda-esque Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Them denying it suits us, we will keep doing this. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk Vilander 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Merlyn Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 Quote Eyewitnesses living across the Line of Control (LoC) have provided The Indian Express with graphic accounts of last week’s Indian Army special forces strikes on jihadists’ staging posts, describing how bodies of those killed in clashes before dawn on September 29 were loaded onto trucks for secret burials. The eyewitnesses also described brief but intense fire engagements that destroyed makeshift buildings that housed jihadists before they left for the last stage of their journeys across the LoC. Their accounts corroborate India’s claims that it carried out strikes against terror launch pads — a claim Pakistan has denied, saying, instead, that its military’s forward positions were targeted with small-arms and mortar fire. They also provide, for the first time, details on some of the locations targeted in the operation, information which the governments of India and Pakistan have not made public. However, eyewitness accounts, as well as intelligence records obtained by The Indian Express, suggest that fatalities in the raids may have been lower than the 38-50 killed attributed to Indian officials in reports, including in this newspaper, and have caused little damage to jihadist logistics and infrastructure. Lethal strike Five eyewitnesses were contacted by The Indian Express through their kin living on the Indian side of the LoC and questions were sent to them using a commercially available encrypted chat system. The eyewitnesses’ identities are being withheld for their safety at the request of their families. Indian journalists have no access to the Pakistani side of the LoC and the only Pakistan media reporting from these regions has been after a team of journalists were taken to some areas by the military there. The most detailed account of the fighting came from two eyewitnesses who visited Dudhnial, a small hamlet some 4 km across the LoC from India’s nearest forward post, Gulab, ahead of the town of Kupwara. The eyewitness reported seeing a gutted building across the Al-Haawi bridge from the hamlet’s main bazaar, where a military outpost and a compound used by the Lashkar are both sited. Al-Haawi bridge is the last point where infiltrating groups are loaded with supplies before beginning their climb up to the LoC towards Kupwara, both eyewitnesses said. Local residents told one of the eyewitnesses that loud explosions — possibly rounds fired from 84-mm Carl Gustav rifles — were heard from across the Al-Haawi bridge late in the night, along with intense small-arms fire. “People did not come out to see what was going on,” the eyewitness reported, “so did not see Indian soldiers but they gathered from the Lashkar people the next day that they had been attacked.” Five, perhaps six, bodies were loaded on to a truck early next morning, and possibly transported to the nearest major Lashkar camp at Chalhana, across the Neelum river from Teetwal, on the Indian side of the LoC, the eyewitness said he was told by local residents. The Indian Army has made no official claim on casualties, but Director General of Military Operations Lieutenant General Ranbir Singh said the strikes caused “significant casualties” to “terrorists and those providing support to them.” Friday prayers at a Lashkar-affiliated mosque in Chalhana, another eyewitness said, ended with a cleric vowing to avenge the deaths of the men killed the previous day. “The Lashkar men gathered there were blaming the Pak Army for failing to defend the border”, he said in one message, “and saying they would soon give India an answer it would never forget”. From classified intelligence documents accessed by The Indian Express, it appears the assault caught the Lashkar and other jihadist groups by surprise. Intelligence Bureau records, one released on September 30 for a scheduled inter-agency meeting in New Delhi, spoke only of one major build-up, saying up to 40 jihadists had massed in Kél, facing India’s Machil sector. This unusual number was interpreted to be a preparation for a last-ditch infiltration push before the passes closed in early winter. Terrorists unprepared Elsewhere, though, nine intelligence alerts seen by The Indian Express, and issued in the week prior to the strike, flagged only small groups of five to 10 infiltrators biding their time at so-called “launch-pads”, essentially rural homes located close to military facilities, from where jihadists are guided towards India’s LoC defences. “They were basically sitting around thinking it was business as usual”, an official familiar with the intelligence said. “Many of them would have died crossing the LoC anyway, when they hit our defences but this (the strikes) has made them feel unsafe one step back in their journeys”. Leepa, a complex of some 25 hamlets located at the bottom of the Qazi Nag stream flowing down from the mountains above Naugam, on the Indian side of the LoC, was among the “launch-pads” targeted in the cross-LoC raids, one eyewitness said. Though the eyewitness was unable to visit the area, he said he spoken to villagers who had seen a Lashkar-occupied three-storied wooden building destroyed by Indian troops near the hamlet of Khairati Bagh. Khairati Bagh was, until 2003, a major Lashkar base, which was slowly scaled down once the LoC ceasefire went into place and the terrorist group’s cross-LoC operations slowly declined. It remains, though, of key importance to the group, offering multiple lines of access into northern Kashmir through Chowkibal and the Bangas bowl. The eyewitness said local residents said “three or four” Lashkar personnel were thought to have been killed in the raid, while others fled into the adjoining forests after the firing began. Interestingly, the eyewitness said the Jamaat-ud-Dawa’s charitable wing, the Falah-i-Insaniyat Foundation, had held a major eye-surgery camp in Khairati Bagh in August, using the opportunity to deliver speeches on alleged atrocities by Indian soldiers in Kashmir. Fire and explosions were also heard, an eyewitness said, from the east bank of the Neelum river in Athmuqam, the district headquarters of the region. Next to Pak Army The fighting, the eyewitness said, appeared to have taken place near military camps along the Katha Nar stream that empties into the Neelum river just north of the town. A bustling town that serves as a hub for tourism and commerce, Athmuqam is also a major military hub, with several army facilities on the ridges the east bank of the river, sheltered from artillery bombardment. The ghost villages of Bicchwal and Bugna, almost entirely abandoned by their residents who fled when the long jihad in Kashmir began in 1990, are barely 2 km from Salkhanna, the first village on the Pakistani side of the LoC, and the last loading point for jihadist infiltrators. An eyewitness who visited the Neelum District Hospital in Athmuqam said he heard several Lashkar personnel had been killed and injured in the clash last Thursday but said no bodies had been buried locally. Neelum valley residents, tied by kinship to mountain peoples on the other side of the LoC, have had a fraught relationship with jihadists operating in the area, fearing the collapse of the India-Pakistan ceasefire could lead to the return of the artillery exchanges which claimed the lives of hundreds of civilians before 2003. In 2011, India-Pakistan military clashes led scores of Athmuqam women and children to march to the local army unit, demanding that it stop cross-border movement by jihadists. The Pakistan Army responded by locating jihadist launch-pads alongside its camps, thus minimising contact between local residents and groups like the Lashkar. However, the massive street violence in Kashmir has led to a surge in the visibility of jihadists across the Neelum valley. http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pakistan-border-terror-camps-surgical-strikes-kashmir-loc-indian-army-jihadist-3065975/ Quote Pakistan may continue to deny India’s assertions about the "surgical strikes" on terrorist launch pads in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, but CNN News18 can confirm – based on disclosures by a senior Pakistani police official – that the strikes did indeed take place and killed at least five Pakistani soldiers and an unspecified number of militants. Six days after India said it had carried out the strikes inside Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK), the response of the Pakistani establishment has ranged from absolute dismissal by its military leadership to ridicule of India’s claim by its defence minister. But that has now been shattered with just one phone call that CNN-News18’s Investigations Editor Manoj Gupta made to a senior police official in PoK who, under the impression he was speaking to his superior, rattled off the events of that tumultuous night and confirmed every single claim made by the Indian Army. Ghulam Akbar, Superintendent of Police (Special Branch) of the Mirpur Range in PoK, is heard admitting that the surgical strikes had indeed taken place at many sectors on the early hours of September 29. During the call with Gupta, he clearly stated that the Pakistani Army was caught unawares by the Indian attack and lost 5 of its soldiers (CNN News18 has their names) and that the bodies of unknown number of terrorists were quickly removed by the Pakistani military. CNN-News18’s Gupta called Akbar pretending to be ‘IG Mushtaq’ and sought details about the casualties of that night (See full transcript). In response, Akbar paints a true picture of the areas that he personally knew were under attack that night – Samana in Bhimber, Hazira in Poonch, Dudhniyal in Neelam and Kayani in Hathian Bala – and said Pakistani Army has cordoned off all these areas immediately after the surgical strikes. The SP also said Pakistani Army put the dead bodies in ambulances and took them away, adding that many have been buried in villages and that his cops were evaluating the coffin boxes. Akbar also confirmed every single line that Indian Director-General of Military Operations Lt General Ranbir Singh had said in his press conference on September 30 where he announced to the world that India had carried out surgical strikes into PoK and destroy terror launch pads. India has not officially announced how many people it killed during the strikes, only saying it managed to neutralize a "significant" number of terrorists. However, Islamabad has pooh poohed the Indian claims of surgical strikes, and said it lost two soldiers in cross border firing by Indian troops. "Sir, that was night...you can say roughly 3-4 hours... between 2 am and 4 or 5am... the attack continued between that time," Akbar told CNN-News18, even confirming the time of the commando raid. "There were attacks on separate places... several places were attacked... they also met resistance," he said. And in another revelation that could put Pakistan on a mat, Akbar also revealed that the Pakistani Army facilitates jihadi movement in forward areas and arranges for their crossing over to India. "The Army brings them, sir... it is in their hands," he says adding that he can’t give accurate numbers because Pakistani Army protects the jihadi infrastructure from even the local authorities and police. http://www.news18.com/news/india/surgical-strikes-despite-days-of-doctoring-by-pakistan-heres-proof-from-across-loc-1298904.html beetle, tweaker and dial_100 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Merlyn Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 Quote Undoubtedly, there is much ambiguity over what the surgical strikes by the Indian forces achieved exactly. But there is some indication that the Indian troops did come inside our territory, though it is not clear how far they penetrated. http://www.dawn.com/news/1288083/mystery-of-the-surgical-strike The narrative in Pakistan media is changing.They cannot say it openly but the hints are being given tweaker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diga Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Quote ArvindKejriwal needs proof 4 surgical strikes and yet took Teresa's miracle story completely on faith Waah... 2 birds in one stone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asim Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Level of desperation beetle and Finer 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Every sensible person knows surgical strikes happened ..... Coward, weak and corrupt Pak army is always in denial. Its bluff on nukes will be called out soon. There will be no place for it to hide sandeep 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Army has also handed over the footage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Time to shame all those dishonest Pakistanis who trolled in support of coward and unethical Pak Army to deliberately spread falsehood sandeep 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Amar , Akbar, Anthony Finer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLICKR392 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 3 hours ago, Asim said: Level of desperation Ironic. beetle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Key points:--As much as 16 contradictions can be observed in the Indian claims (including the number of people killed, helicopters being used, number of launchpads being engaged etc.)-While India continues to talk the talk, Pakistan is walking the walk by inviting journalists on LOC. On the other side IAF airchief is hesitant even taking questions about the surgical strikes-A senior congress leader is quite doubtful on the Indian claims made.-History of falsifying and staging engagements by Indian Army (2004).-UNMOGIP's take on the issue.-International media coverage. SLICKR392 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Indian Army recording fake exercises as evidence for PoK surgical strikes Quote Srinagar: Amid the growing clamour for making public the evidence of the recent surgical strikes by India on terror launch pads in PoK, controversial Independent MLA Sheikh Abdul Rashid on Wednesday said the Army was video graphing "fake exercises" in Leepa Valley near LoC to offer them as proof for the same. http://www.firstpost.com/india/army-recording-fake-exercises-as-evidence-for-pok-surgical-strikes-jk-mla-sheikh-abdul-rashid-3036172.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Deucalion said: Key points:--As much as 16 contradictions can be observed in the Indian claims (including the number of people killed, helicopters being used, number of launchpads being engaged etc.)-While India continues to talk the talk, Pakistan is walking the walk by inviting journalists on LOC. On the other side IAF airchief is hesitant even taking questions about the surgical strikes-A senior congress leader is quite doubtful on the Indian claims made.-History of falsifying and staging engagements by Indian Army (2004).-UNMOGIP's take on the issue.-International media coverage. What an idiotic post. The media at that point is reporting about the surgical strikes but since Army has not given full details of the operations, it is speculating based on various sources on what could have happened Additionally, Ind carried out multiple surgical strikes across 250 kms of LoC so each strike would have a different approach and result Edited October 5, 2016 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 This is as real as this- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Quote Srinagar: Amid the growing clamour for making public the evidence of the recent surgical strikes by India on terror launch pads in PoK, controversial Independent MLA Sheikh Abdul Rashid on Wednesday said the Army was video graphing "fake exercises" in Leepa Valley near LoC to offer them as proof for the same. http://www.firstpost.com/india/army-recording-fake-exercises-as-evidence-for-pok-surgical-strikes-jk-mla-sheikh-abdul-rashid-3036172.html Adi_91 and tweaker 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Deucalion said: This is as real as this- Thanks for showing how illogically Pak offers rebuttals PS Do we have to tolerate such dishonest Pakistanis, who are being kicked out from every where? Edited October 5, 2016 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Dishonest Pakistani in action alert .... probably waging jihad on ICF Why are such liars being tolerayed? sscomp32 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) This is pure Gold- The name of Azad J&K police IG is Bashir Memon, not IG Mushtaq. Edited October 5, 2016 by Deucalion Finer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, Deucalion said: This is pure Gold- The name of Azad J&K police IG is Babar Memon, not IG Mushtaq. So? Btw, there is no Azad J&K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sajid_Rana Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 No wonder they say " aik jhoot ko chupanay k liye so jhoot bolnay partay hain " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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