Harbhajan mocking Ashwin?

[Texan]

7 hours ago, rkt.india said:

That's a real stupid comment.b bhajji has 400 test wickets, no fun 

Let Ishant Sharma play another 70 Tests. Even he will get 400 wickets then. But would that make him a great bowler?

[putrevus]

People are selling short Bhajji, he was great bowler by any standards, let Ashwin win a test in SA like Bhajji did in 2011.If he had any support from medium pacers next test in cape town he would have won the series for India in SA. Ashwin has done well but he has not yet bowled on absolute flat pattas which Bhajji got to bowl .

[Late Cut]

Naah, Harby lost his ability to chuck away:

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/146330.html

 

He would have continued to be a "great" bowler if he could chuck. Ashwin gets a lot more drift on his deliveries these days than Harby ever did.

[GautiMaan]

Why was Ashwin giving tips to NZ batsmen on how he got them out,I believe Latham made changes to his technique based on those and got a handy score

[rkt.india]

On 10/2/2016 at 10:11 PM, Texan said:

Let Ishant Sharma play another 70 Tests. Even he will get 400 wickets then. But would that make him a great bowler?

BHajji has 417 wickets in 103 tests and that is 4 wickets per test. If Ishant could take 4 wickets per test than I call him a great bowler. 4 wickets per test is a great record for any bowler. At current rate, Ishant will have to play close to 150 test to come close to Bhajji's wickets tally.

Edited October 4, 2016 by rkt.india

[Texan]

10 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

BHajji has 417 wickets in 103 tests and that is 4 wickets per test. If Ishant could take 4 wickets per test than I call him a great bowler. 4 wickets per test is a great record for any bowler. At current rate, Ishant will have to play close to 150 test to come close to Bhajji's wickets tally.

Check my analysis on Bhajji's 4th innings record in India. Even on rank turners he was not as effective as Kumble or Ashwin.

 

[rkt.india]

On 10/2/2016 at 10:04 PM, Texan said:

Okay. For argument sake, lets say that the pitches started turning on day 4 or 5 during Bhajji's time. In that case, Bhajji must have been devastating on days 4 and 5 during the 4th innings at home. Lets take a look at how he stacks up. 

 

Kumble, who started a little earlier than him, but for a long time was his bowling partner averages 16 in the 4th innings of home Tests. 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/30176.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;innings_number=4;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

 

Ashwin, who supposedly gets dust bowls also ends up averaging 15 in 4th innings at home:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/26421.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;innings_number=4;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

 

Now, supposedly, Harby should have wrecked havoc in 4th innings when the pitch offered turn and variable bounce and should have been a World beater in that department. Lets see how the stats stack up. 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/29264.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;innings_number=4;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

 

Huh...!!! He averages 25!!  That is poor for a spin bowler bowling in India and expected to run through opposition in 4th innings. That itself tells you that Bhajji was not quite as devastating even when conditions suited him. 

We did not have rank turners in in 2000s. Only rank turner, I remember is Mumbai 2004. Kumble started a decade before him and we used to play 3 spinners at home and we prepared a lot turners that but then from late 90s onwards we had a lot of batting friendly where we saw some drab draws too and we would mostly win due to score board pressure and opposition's inability to counter Kumble and Bhajji but Bhajji's peak lasted at most 6-7 years from that 2001 series to 2006-7 at most and after that he only went downhill. Kumble and Ashwin being better in 4th innings does not mean Bhajji was a bad bowler. He is still an Indian great.

 

between Jan 2001 to 2007, he had 19 fers in 49 tests and only 6 5-fers in other 54 tests.

Edited October 4, 2016 by rkt.india

[MCcricket]

Harbhajan lost his mojo after he had a surgery on his hand n webbing and After that he could not turn the ball prodigiously like he used to earlier, also he became more defensive n forgot to flight n started bowling middle leg line n became. Mediocre, by the time Ashwin retires he will be an all time great not just India great, Bhajji was not great outside so is Ashwin, but Ashwin is I proving and will get there, as he has right ideas whereas Bhajji was stubborn also, Ashwin has too much variety n Skill, Bhajji never proved anything outside India n needed help from tracks more also the experienced Kumble help him get alot of wkts 

[Texan]

30 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

We did not have rank turners in in 2000s. Only rank turner, I remember is Mumbai 2004. Kumble started a decade before him and we used to play 3 spinners at home and we prepared a lot turners that but then from late 90s onwards we had a lot of batting friendly where we saw some drab draws too and we would mostly win due to score board pressure and opposition's inability to counter Kumble and Bhajji but Bhajji's peak lasted at most 6-7 years from that 2001 series to 2006-7 at most and after that he only went downhill. Kumble and Ashwin being better in 4th innings does not mean Bhajji was a bad bowler. He is still an Indian great.

 

between Jan 2001 to 2007, he had 19 fers in 49 tests and only 6 5-fers in other 54 tests.

When you say that we did not have rank turners, are you saying that wickets did not offer turn even on 4th or 5th days? I would find that pretty ridiculous. As I showed you Bhajji wasn't great even on 4th or 5th day of Tests. Now, since you mentioned that Kumble benefited from the rank turners in the 90s, lets pull up a statistic of 4th innings performances when both Kumble and Harbhajan played together at home:

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/30176.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;innings_number=4;orderby=default;player_involve=7139;template=results;type=bowling

 

Kumble still averaged 16.

 

As for your analysis on Bhajji's career highs and lows, I think you just proved my point. While he was very good between 2001 to 2005, his record after that is very average and he should have been kicked out of the team long before he actually was.

[rkt.india]

27 minutes ago, Texan said:

When you say that we did not have rank turners, are you saying that wickets did not offer turn even on 4th or 5th days? I would find that pretty ridiculous. As I showed you Bhajji wasn't great even on 4th or 5th day of Tests. Now, since you mentioned that Kumble benefited from the rank turners in the 90s, lets pull up a statistic of 4th innings performances when both Kumble and Harbhajan played together at home:

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/30176.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;innings_number=4;orderby=default;player_involve=7139;template=results;type=bowling

 

Kumble still averaged 16.

 

As for your analysis on Bhajji's career highs and lows, I think you just proved my point. While he was very good between 2001 to 2005, his record after that is very average and he should have been kicked out of the team long before he actually was.

Ye, he might not be as good as Kumble because Kumble was really accurate and is one of the ATGs of cricket but Bhajji was still pretty good good and won us a lot of matches even after his form went down. Also, even if he was dropped after 2007 and retired immediately after 238 wickets in 57 matches at 29 with 19 5-fers, I would have still called him a great. His longevity has only deteriorated his stats and not improved.

Edited October 4, 2016 by rkt.india

[Trichromatic]

4 hours ago, Texan said:

When you say that we did not have rank turners, are you saying that wickets did not offer turn even on 4th or 5th days? I would find that pretty ridiculous. As I showed you Bhajji wasn't great even on 4th or 5th day of Tests. Now, since you mentioned that Kumble benefited from the rank turners in the 90s, lets pull up a statistic of 4th innings performances when both Kumble and Harbhajan played together at home:

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/30176.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;innings_number=4;orderby=default;player_involve=7139;template=results;type=bowling

 

Kumble still averaged 16.

 

As for your analysis on Bhajji's career highs and lows, I think you just proved my point. While he was very good between 2001 to 2005, his record after that is very average and he should have been kicked out of the team long before he actually was.

Bhajji was great in 4th and 5th day.

 

122 wickets at average of 22 is great for a spinner.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/29264.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;innings_number=3;innings_number=4;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

[Vijy]

On 10/4/2016 at 2:59 AM, rkt.india said:

Ye, he might not be as good as Kumble because Kumble was really accurate and is one of the ATGs of cricket but Bhajji was still pretty good good and won us a lot of matches even after his form went down. Also, even if he was dropped after 2007 and retired immediately after 238 wickets in 57 matches at 29 with 19 5-fers, I would have still called him a great. His longevity has only deteriorated his stats and not improved.

Normally, spinners mature with age and get better (e.g. Jumbo and Ash).

[gattaca]

Is bhajji correct here ? Can Ashwin only perform when the pitch is 5 th day ? I haven't seen our bowling this is geniue query. Ashwin is not a traditional off spinner but in the past he used experiment a lot in tests. Was it some thing like that ?

[gattaca]

Ashwin contributed both with bat and ball vs England he is a major let down this series.