Shami-Umesh outbowled our spinners

[Cricketics]

For a change our seamers have bowled better in this test and in particular today. I think they bowled without luck but Yadav and Shami have been both pretty good today from what I saw.

 

What you guys feel?

 

I just hope our other seamers can back them up and we given them some rest, especially Shami, as he did something bad to his hamstring yesterday and hence need to be carefully played.

 

But all said, Shami and Umesh were sot on today. The wicket to wicket line was pretty good.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

On a patta pitch a fast bowler will always out bowl a spinner.But Jadeja took 3 wickets.

[Trichromatic]

2 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

On a patta pitch a fast bowler will always out bowl a spinner.But Jadeja took 3 wickets.

Not in India. Indian spinners still pick more wickets on pattas.

 

2000s - in all drawn matches where India bowled first

 

Spinners - 50 wickets at average of 43 and economy of 2.69

 

Pacers - 31 wickets at average of 46 and economy of 3.27

 

Notice the difference in economy rates. No surprises there.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

1 minute ago, Trichromatic said:

Not in India. Indian spinners still pick more wickets on pattas.

 

2000s - in all drawn matches where India bowled first

 

Spinners - 50 wickets at average of 43 and economy of 2.69

 

Pacers - 31 wickets at average of 46 and economy of 3.27

 

Notice the difference in economy rates. No surprises there.

 

Those figures are greatly affected by because we had Kumble till 2008 and Bhajji was a good spinner till 2006-07.

 

Also draw doesnt mean a flat track.

 

Shami and Yadav are pacy and can reverse.How many such "fast bowlers" have we had?

[Trichromatic]

1 minute ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

 

Those figures are greatly affected by because we had Kumble till 2008 and Bhajji was a good spinner till 2006-07.

 

Also draw doesnt mean a flat track.

 

Shami and Yadav are pacy and can reverse.How many such "fast bowlers" have we had?

Draw doesn't mean flat track, but it is a good indicator. If a match ends in draw then it is more likely that visiting team batting on day 1 would get flat pitch in India. Rarely it happens that a visiting team doesn't get flat pitch while batting on day 1 and match still ends in draw.

3 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

 

Those figures are greatly affected by because we had Kumble till 2008 and Bhajji was a good spinner till 2006-07.

 

Also draw doesnt mean a flat track.

 

Shami and Yadav are pacy and can reverse.How many such "fast bowlers" have we had?

So it just means that Ashwin and Mishra didn't bowl well.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

2 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Draw doesn't mean flat track, but it is a good indicator. If a match ends in draw then it is more likely that visiting team batting on day 1 would get flat pitch in India. Rarely it happens that a visiting team doesn't get flat pitch while batting on day 1 and match still ends in draw.

So it just means that Ashwin and Mishra didn't bowl well.

 

Mishra doesnt compare to Bhaji or Kumble.

 

And Ashwin is equal to Bhajji Plus Kumble.

 

Did you miss the point about Pacy bowlers who can reverse swing?

[rkt.india]

10 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Draw doesn't mean flat track, but it is a good indicator. If a match ends in draw then it is more likely that visiting team batting on day 1 would get flat pitch in India. Rarely it happens that a visiting team doesn't get flat pitch while batting on day 1 and match still ends in draw.

So it just means that Ashwin and Mishra didn't bowl well.

Keep giving this type of a pitch to Mishra and Ashwin and they will keep bowling like this. It has more to do with pitch rather than their bowling.

[Trichromatic]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Keep giving this type of a pitch to Mishra and Ashwin and they will keep bowling like this. It has more to do with pitch rather than their bowling.

Still Jadeja showed them that it is possible to bowl well on this track.

 

If they continue to bowl like this, then I have to say that Ashwin is not a better bowler than Harbhajan yet.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Still Jadeja showed them that it is possible to bowl well on this track.

 

If they continue to bowl like this, then I have to say that Ashwin is not a better bowler than Harbhajan yet.

On Rajkot pitches Jadeja has 2 triple tons.

[putrevus]

Bhajji has been vindicated to some extent by feeble showing of Ashwin. If he has to perform better overseas I don't think he will be getting any better pitches than this one.

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[rkt.india]

20 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Still Jadeja showed them that it is possible to bowl well on this track.

 

If they continue to bowl like this, then I have to say that Ashwin is not a better bowler than Harbhajan yet.

Jadeja is a Kumble mold bowler.

[Trichromatic]

4 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Jadeja is a Kumble mold bowler.

Even Harbhajan didn't bowl this bad on such pitches.

 

Only twice he conceded more runs

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/430881.html

 

SL scored 760 with help of Jaya and Dilshan

 

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/441825.html

 

SA scored 558-6 after Amla and Kallis scored a ton.

 

He bowled against better players of spin also

 

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Keep giving this type of a pitch to Mishra and Ashwin and they will keep bowling like this. It has more to do with pitch rather than their bowling.

If that is the case then Ashwin will be totally ineffective when he is playing away from sub continent.I expected Ashwin to bowl better but was very surprised by amount of runs he leaked , he simply could not build any pressure which is more concerning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rkt.india]

30 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Bhajji has been vindicated to some extent by feeble showing of Ashwin. If he has to perform better overseas I don't think he will be getting any better pitches than this one.

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I also got vindicated. I always say if your top 4 bowlers dont do well, it is highly unlikely that your 5th bowler will make a difference. If your 5th bowler was so, he would automatically be your preferred choice of your top 4 bowlers. As 5th bowler, you only need someone who could bowl 5-10 overs a day, a batsman who could bowl half decently.

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

I also got vindicated. I always say if your top 4 bowlers dont do well, it is highly unlikely that your 5th bowler will make a difference. If your 5th bowler was so, he would automatically be your preferred choice of your top 4 bowlers. As 5th bowler, you only need someone who could bowl 5-10 overs a day, a batsman who could bowl half decently.

How do you know 5th bowler was Mishra and not Umesh?

 

There might have been thought of playing 3 spinners+Shami

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

I also got vindicated. I always say if your top 4 bowlers dont do well, it is highly unlikely that your 5th bowler will make a difference. If your 5th bowler was so, he would automatically be your preferred choice of your top 4 bowlers. As 5th bowler, you only need someone who could bowl 5-10 overs a day, a batsman who could bowl half decently.

You need a fifth bowler when you are playing overseas because two seamers and two spinners will not work there.If Ashwin is so ineffective on these sorts of pitches playing him as lone spinner would be another Joburg disaster.

Ashwin needs to bowl better than this period.He has dream line up to bowl against all lefties who are weak against spin and yet he made Ali and Stokes look like Sobers.

 

[vishalvirsingh]

46 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

On Rajkot pitches Jadeja has 2 triple tons.

That goes to show that This pitch is a PATTA.. a Flat Patta

 

I expect centuries from at least one of these 2- gambhir or Murli...

 

I expect india scoring 500 too..

I really liked how Ganguly spoke on cricinfo..he is Splendid. spoke sense ashwin and jaddu will not fetch india wins abroad...and appreciated shammi and Umesh

 

also did not criticize kohli for not bowling bouncers to MOIN as on indian tracks - bouncers will not be that effective.. which is a BIG truth.

 

some times bouncers on Patta's just bcomes short pitched bowling and is Hammered big way.

 

 

[vishalvirsingh]

I am a bit annoyed with the fielding slip fielding and wicket keeping ---

 

catching has been Poor.

kinda Very Poor.

I guess 5 or 6 catches left.. 5 to 6 genuine catches.

 

[vishalvirsingh]

Gambhir and Murli are SELFISH Batsman.....after them Pujara.

 

But both these Selfish Batsman are best when one has to DRAW a Test Match..

 

I will not be surprised if 2 out of these 3 score centuries.

 

[rkt.india]

22 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You need a fifth bowler when you are playing overseas because two seamers and two spinners will not work there.If Ashwin is so ineffective on these sorts of pitches playing him as lone spinner would be another Joburg disaster.

Ashwin needs to bowl better than this period.He has dream line up to bowl against all lefties who are weak against spin and yet he made Ali and Stokes look like Sobers.

 

you dont need 2 spinners overseas. 3 main seamers and one spinner that too is a luxury because our spinners dont do well overseas in places like Aus, England, SA. We need 5th bowler as someone who is predominantly a batsman and can bowl either a it of spin or seam, dont need a full fledged specialist bowler as 5th bowler.

Edited November 10, 2016 by rkt.india