Pant for Saha?

[maniac]

11 minutes ago, fineleg said:

Because some development of the player has to happen outside of real live International matches. Rather than get them in under-cooked.

As I have said before A tours in terms of measuring temperament fair enough...but A Tours being a complete measure of how good a player is is total BS.

 

A tour pitches 9.9/10 times are flat useless wickets...

 

Apart from  the assumption that firangi bowlers who are 5-10 clicks more than 90% of the domestic trundlers,the pitches in domestics are way way way more challenging

Edited November 15, 2016 by maniac

[sandeep]

Quote

I disagree with OP that Pant needs to be brought in to the rigours of test cricket already.

That's what the poll in this thread is about.  

 

What about Shreyas Iyer?  Why shouldn't he be given a chance ahead of Pant?  He has arguably done more in FC cricket than Pant?  There was a similar creaming of the pants last year for him.   Now he's forgotten.  

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

That's what the poll in this thread is about.  

 

What about Shreyas Iyer?  Why shouldn't he be given a chance ahead of Pant?  He has arguably done more in FC cricket than Pant?  There was a similar creaming of the pants last year for him.   Now he's forgotten.  

Because the need of the hour is a wk-bat who also happens to be a power hitter and an attacking player

[Samcric]

Would love to see Pant being included in the Chennai test if India have won the series by then (seems unlikely right now after the first test though!). This is assuming that his keeping is up to the mark - may not be as good as Saha, but should be able to catch straightforward catches. If the ball stays low or turns a mile past the leg-stump for byes, it would still be ok as long as he can take the catches.

 

The upside of this experiment is worth taking the risk. Saha is good but if you look around the world, new standards have been set by the likes of Bairstow and de Kock. If we have a guy scoring runs at an average of over 100 with a strike-rate of over 100, we should give him a chance. If we don't take these risks sometimes, we will not be able to induct young talent and we will ask them to lose 2-3 years in FC cricket.

 

So, the real question is if Rishabh Pant is indeed such an audacious talent. To be honest, if he was, I am sure Dravid would ensure he gets some chances and would have spoken with Kumble just like he pushed for Pandya even though he was dropped in the previous ODI series. So, if the people who have watched him from close quarters feel he is a special talent, there is every reason for him to play the last test if it doesn't affect the outcome of the series. FC experience of 2-3 years or not - the real test is of the ability of a player to show he belongs. Fingers crossed - as a fan, I would love the selectors/team management to take a bit of risk in dead rubber games.

 

But obviously, Saha should play as usual if the series is still undecided.

[cowboysfan]

Test cricket is no joke,you cant bring in a Kid in from nowhere unless they are phenomenally talented.

[Texan]

12 hours ago, sandeep said:

I will "augment" my argument using one of the many common sense posts on this thread.

 

You are augmenting your argument by providing another armchair critic's views, which you were loathing earlier. Where are Dravid's views??

 

.............. unless Dravid is using a pseudonym to secretly post in this forum.

[fineleg]

Utterly ridiculous to suggest Pant to Test team currently. Selectors, Kumble, Kohli will not make that mistake.

[express bowling]

Top Ranji Trophy run getters this season so far  --

 

3 batsmen with really high ( average + SR )  combo  in Pant, Hooda and Kishan

 

2 are keepers too and the other is a part time off-spinner.

 

Most runs

Player	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
RR Pant	5	7	0	799	308	114.14	707	113.01	4	1	0	79	44
(Delhi)
DJ Hooda	5	8	2	690	293*	115.00	918	75.16	3	1	1	76	8
(Baroda)
G Rahul Singh	6*	10	3	683	182	97.57	1188	57.49	2	4	0	94	5
(Services)
Yuvraj Singh	5	8	0	672	260	84.00	1044	64.36	2	2	0	79	8
(Punjab)
SP Khajuria	6*	11	2	619	111	68.77	1474	41.99	1	4	0	77	6
(Jammu & Kashmir)
AR Bawne	5	8	1	608	258*	86.85	1211	50.20	2	3	1	64	8
(Maharashtra)
Ishan Kishan	6	9	1	599	273	74.87	729	82.16	3	0	2	63	25
(Jharkhand)

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ranji-trophy-2016-17/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?id=11519;type=tournament

 

 

Edited November 16, 2016 by express bowling

[maniac]

5 hours ago, express bowling said:

Top Ranji Trophy run getters this season so far  --

 

3 batsmen with really high ( average + SR )  combo  in Pant, Hooda and Kishan

 

2 are keepers too and the other is a part time off-spinner.

 

Most runs

Player	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
RR Pant	5	7	0	799	308	114.14	707	113.01	4	1	0	79	44
(Delhi)
DJ Hooda	5	8	2	690	293*	115.00	918	75.16	3	1	1	76	8
(Baroda)
G Rahul Singh	6*	10	3	683	182	97.57	1188	57.49	2	4	0	94	5
(Services)
Yuvraj Singh	5	8	0	672	260	84.00	1044	64.36	2	2	0	79	8
(Punjab)
SP Khajuria	6*	11	2	619	111	68.77	1474	41.99	1	4	0	77	6
(Jammu & Kashmir)
AR Bawne	5	8	1	608	258*	86.85	1211	50.20	2	3	1	64	8
(Maharashtra)
Ishan Kishan	6	9	1	599	273	74.87	729	82.16	3	0	2	63	25
(Jharkhand)

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ranji-trophy-2016-17/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?id=11519;type=tournament

 

 

Pant's surreal S/R to ad to his amazing average makes him head and shoulders above others.

 

Nice to see Yuvi doing well too,may be another run in ODI's considering his form and the lack of lower order power hitters?

[sandeep]

12 hours ago, Texan said:

You are augmenting your argument by providing another armchair critic's views, which you were loathing earlier. Where are Dravid's views??

 

.............. unless Dravid is using a pseudonym to secretly post in this forum.

Ghoda mar chuka hai, Texan bhai.  Maarna bandh karo.  Fat boy has a lot to prove in terms of 'keeping before we blood him in tests.  Period.  End of.  I understand you don't agree.  That's ok.  Its a free interwebs.  Ttyl.  

[express bowling]

16 minutes ago, maniac said:

Pant's surreal S/R to ad to his amazing average makes him head and shoulders above others.

 

Nice to see Yuvi doing well too,may be another run in ODI's considering his form and the lack of lower order power hitters?

I  don't know whether Yuvi still retains the ability to hit fast bowlers that he once had till 2011.  

 

Pant and  Hooda can be tried in the No.5 and no. 6 slots.  in LOIs only.  in the near future as we badly lack power-hitters in those positions. That will give them some practice against genuine pace too.  Hooda's ability to bowl some off-spin will also help us.   Both these guys have power-hitting ability.  Check out the number of 6s Pant has already hit ( 44 in only 5 games )

 

Kishan can be tried in LOIs in early 2018 too, after the next season ends.

 

Edited November 16, 2016 by express bowling

[sandeep]

Just now, express bowling said:

I  don't know whether Yuvi still retains the ability to hit fast bowlers that he once had till 2011.  

 

Pant and  Hooda can be tried in the No.5 and no. 6 slots.  in LOIs only.  in the near future as we badly lack power-hitters in those positions. That will give them some practice against genuine pace too.  Hooda's ability to bowl some off-spin will also help us.   Both these guys have power-hitting ability.  Check out the number of 6s Pant has already hit ( 44 in only 5 games )

 

Kishan can be tried in LOIs in early 2018 too, after the next season ends.

Kishan and Pant remind me of Pappu Patel and Dinesh Karthik a decade ago - both were highly rated prospects and big things were expected.  Both underwhelmed with inconsistency at the international level.  I hope these 2 do a lot better...

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Kishan and Pant remind me of Pappu Patel and Dinesh Karthik a decade ago - both were highly rated prospects and big things were expected.  Both underwhelmed with inconsistency at the international level.  I hope these 2 do a lot better...

Yes....ultimately, success at international level depends on temperament along with talent.

 

Only future will tell us whether they have  temperament.

Edited November 16, 2016 by express bowling

[fineleg]

If and only if Yuvraj Singh is in very good form (only if selectors have watched his recent matches) - then he can be considered for ODIs given his batting and bowling and experience. An in-form Yuvi very useful for ODIs. But not if he is in poor shape and form.

[maniac]

21 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Kishan and Pant remind me of Pappu Patel and Dinesh Karthik a decade ago - both were highly rated prospects and big things were expected.  Both underwhelmed with inconsistency at the international level.  I hope these 2 do a lot better...

I don't get it.....So are you saying they will also flatter to deceive like them? how can you derive that?

 

Karthik and Patel both earned their shot with their talent and consistent FC performances,they failed at international level is a different story...how does that impact why they shouldn't be given a run?

 

So are you saying we need to induct wicket keepers from small towns hoping that they are the next MSD based on that example?

[Samcric]

13 minutes ago, fineleg said:

If and only if Yuvraj Singh is in very good form (only if selectors have watched his recent matches) - then he can be considered for ODIs given his batting and bowling and experience. An in-form Yuvi very useful for ODIs. But not if he is in poor shape and form.

If we keep taking 2 steps back for every 1 step forward, we will walk back straight into the 90s where 1 guy was expected to carry the burden of winning the game for his team. Even if Yuvi is in great form, do we realistically hope that he will play in 2019 World Cup? If not, let us not stop the process of trying out players to build that team. Many will fail, but some will eventually prove themselves. And you will need to give them a good 2-3 years of experience before the WC. Playing an in-form ageing player may win you a few matches in the short-term but will create more pain in the longer scheme of things.

[sandeep]

Just now, maniac said:

I don't get it.....So are you saying they will also flatter to deceive like them? how can you derive that?

 

Karthik and Patel both earned their shot with their talent and consistent FC performances,they failed at international level is a different story...how does that impact why they shouldn't be given a run?

 

So are you saying we need to induct wicket keepers from small towns hoping that they are the next MSD based on that example?

Beta.  tum se na ho paayega.  Your reading is more between the lines than the actual ones.  And that too incorrectly.  

 

Where did I say that these 2 will end up like them?  I said there are parallels in 2 young 'keeping prospects coming through, and both have quality batting skills.  

 

And where in Rohit Sharma's laal kaccha did you see Dhoni in my post?

 

Btw, do you realize that both Pant and Kishan are small-town boys anyway?  

[maniac]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

Beta.  tum se na ho paayega.  Your reading is more between the lines than the actual ones.  And that too incorrectly.  

 

Where did I say that these 2 will end up like them?  I said there are parallels in 2 young 'keeping prospects coming through, and both have quality batting skills.  

 

And where in Rohit Sharma's laal kaccha did you see Dhoni in my post?

 

Btw, do you realize that both Pant and Kishan are small-town boys anyway?  

Jarkhand agreed....I knew Kejri and AAPtards have screwed up Delhi but didn't realize it was to the point where it is considered a small town now.

 

FYI where you are born doesn't matter.....It depends on which team you play for.

 

Rahul Dravid-Indore and Rohit Sharma-Bansod are probably 2 of the biggest small town success stories on that logic

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, maniac said:

Jarkhand agreed....I knew Kejri and AAPtards have screwed up Delhi but didn't realize it was to the point where it is considered a small town now.

 

FYI where you are born doesn't matter.....It depends on which team you play for.

 

Rahul Dravid-Indore and Rohit Sharma-Bansod are probably 2 of the biggest small town success stories on that logic

Pant is from Roorkee, moved to Delhi for cricket.  But that's not the point.  You got your panties twisted up incorrectly because you didn't read.  That's the point.  

[Vijy]

On 11/16/2016 at 10:56 AM, sandeep said:

Pant is from Roorkee, moved to Delhi for cricket.  But that's not the point.  You got your panties twisted up incorrectly because you didn't read.  That's the point.  

Pant and Kishan are both promising, but they appear to be quite poor keepers at the current stage. With regards to Pant, the only semi-decent FC attack that he encountered was Karnataka, and he failed against them if memory serves me right. He's too raw, and unlike Hameed, does not appear to have a Test-based game... but then, people said the same about Sehwag too.

 

The No.6 slot is still kinda up for grabs in ODIs, maybe they can be tried there