End of Saha's Indian career?

[Cricketics]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

ask PP where he would like to bat at 7 or open, he will straight away say open. 

Thats a whole different discussion and it does not prove that batting at opening order is easy.

Any person you ask, even Rahane or Rohit, they would like to bat higher up the order. I am sure Rohit would love to bat at 3 or 4. Every good batsman wants to bat up the order. 

 

 

No7 is tough position to bat. I have not denied it since you might be batting with tailenders, but that does not mean who ever open the innings has easier task.

 

So off course when you say "Ask pp where he wants to bat?"  PP will be really dumb to not say open. He knows no 3-4-5 is reserved and openers are out of the team, so ofcoure he will say I will open. He will be dumb not too. 

 

 

[Bleed-Blue]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

NZ-SL are weak teams? Same SL thrashed Australia.

Yep,that sri lanka team was at its lowest point when we played them with a number of new players and average bowlers apart from Herath. Nz are a weak team away from home and they were mentally destroyed.

 

 

 

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Thats a whole different discussion and it does not prove that batting at opening order is easy.

Any person you ask, even Rahane or Rohit, they would like to bat higher up the order. I am sure Rohit would love to bat at 3 or 4. Every good batsman wants to bat up the order. 

 

 

No7 is tough position to bat. I have not denied it since you might be batting with tailenders, but that does not mean who ever open the innings has easier task.

 

So off course when you say "Ask pp where he wants to bat?"  PP will be really dumb to not say open. He knows no 3-4-5 is reserved and openers are out of the team, so ofcoure he will say I will open. He will be dumb not too. 

 

 

it is certainly easier in Indian conditions than batting at 7. 

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

it is certainly easier in Indian conditions than batting at 7. 

Yes.....Playing the new ball is generally easier in India on a freshly rolled pitch....no reverse swing, minimum spin and moderate to no swing. The bounce is at its truest  too.   By the time those things set in, the opener is set.....Is it even debatable that batting at No. 7 is more difficult in India  ?

[Cricketics]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

it is certainly easier in Indian conditions than batting at 7. 

When did I say it is easier. I jumped into debate as soon as I read about opening being easy. 

 

Also regarding your question, I am not sure. When your no6 is giving you hand and you are batting with Jadeja and co who are decent to bat, it might change the meaning of being difficult. Depends what combination we are playing. Our tail is long so currently, batting at 7 is not that tough compared to times when we might not have one of the three spinners, all of whom can bat, available.

[rkt.india]

There was an argument why we dont have many openers who averaged 50 in India. I would say because those openers were not good enough. They would not have done much better even if they had batted at 4 or 5. Sehwag averaged 57 in Indian subcontinent, 54 at home and pitches are very similar in nature, but he averages only 35 outside SC. Why did he average 50 plus at home because he had the quality to do that.

[fineleg]

SRT should have opened then - given he gets to pick his spot. But he preferred #4

[Texan]

Wicket-keeping for an entire day and then coming out to open is no mean task. If Parthiv can do this consistently, improve his keeping some and average about 30-35 while opening, he will be a great asset to the team. 

[sourab10forever]

Pappu is not the long term option... that's it.

[Texan]

2 hours ago, sourab10forever said:

Pappu is not the long term option... that's it.

Of course he is not. Question is whether Saha or Parthiv is better to continue in this series till we find a permanent long term solution - either Pant or Kishan or someone else who can keep and bat.

[vishalvirsingh]

 parthiv keeper is a 4 on 10

But let's assume he is 10 on 10 as batsman 

 

Saha is 9 on 10 as keeper

And 6 on 10 as batsmen 

[bihutoli]

In tests we need a good keeper. I doubt there is anybody better than Saha in keeping, he makes keeping seem effortless. Yes hes had some bloopers, but his technique looks really good. He's batting is also handy. When playing in spin favoring conditions we do have a good tail, so Saha's batting should be more than sufficient. In seaming swinging conditions I doubt any other Indian keeper comes even close in terms of ability. Hes a specialist keeper, one we haven't had for a long term. We need to keep investing in him.

[vishalvirsingh]

If we rate a test batsman as a batsmen who scores a 9 on 10 or 10 on 10 in batting ...then Parthiv is definitely scoring 9 on 10 atleast.

For me he is a lesser batsmen than kohl I rahane and pujara only...as good as other batsmen n better than ashwin who is a 8 on 10 ...

But as a keeper if saha is 10 on 10 

Or 9 on 10.

Parthiv is 3 on 10 or 4 on 10 as keeper a dwarf keeper who is bound to under perform.

 

Ojha is 7 on 10 keeper n 8 on 10 batsmen and is probably a good bet.

Rishabh seems a 10 on 10..I hv not seen much of him but seems he cud be better than naman.

[Samcric]

On 11/27/2016 at 0:05 PM, Cricketics said:

If Vijay does not play next game because of the injury which was mentioned, India might be playing too many different players. They are better of then sticking with Patel as opener in the series even if Saha comes back as keeper.

 

Don't you think that would be a bit unfair on the openers who have performed in FC? If they can't get in the Indian side if they have performed and the regular openers are injured, what do they perform for? I can understand a scenario where an opener pulls up a muscle on the morning of the match and you go with the best possible option. But if you know your opener(s) carry a niggle and you are unsure about their participation in the coming match, you should definitely have specialist opener(s) as back up.

 

Would be interesting to see how many people change their minds here once they see PP get out to an attempted cover drive in the first over of Day 1 against Broad/Anderson. Then they may realize the value of a regular opener, leaving balls outside offstump in the first hour and waiting for the pitch to ease out in the post-lunch session.

 

I can still understand the move if PP was someone like a Sehwag (in tests) or Rohit Sharma (in ODIs) who you would imagine to have more time while playing shots than the average batsmen. That's the hallmark of a batsman who picks up length early and has a good eye. Then, you see the potential of an opening batsman in them and want to give them an extended run. In case of PP, team management tried something to create balance in the side for one match and we should not consider that as a solution for injuries to our regular openers. These gambles backfire more often than not.

[Vijy]

17 minutes ago, Samcric said:

Don't you think that would be a bit unfair on the openers who have performed in FC? If they can't get in the Indian side if they have performed and the regular openers are injured, what do they perform for? I can understand a scenario where an opener pulls up a muscle on the morning of the match and you go with the best possible option. But if you know your opener(s) carry a niggle and you are unsure about their participation in the coming match, you should definitely have specialist opener(s) as back up.

 

Would be interesting to see how many people change their minds here once they see PP get out to an attempted cover drive in the first over of Day 1 against Broad/Anderson. Then they may realize the value of a regular opener, leaving balls outside offstump in the first hour and waiting for the pitch to ease out in the post-lunch session.

 

I can still understand the move if PP was someone like a Sehwag (in tests) or Rohit Sharma (in ODIs) who you would imagine to have more time while playing shots than the average batsmen. That's the hallmark of a batsman who picks up length early and has a good eye. Then, you see the potential of an opening batsman in them and want to give them an extended run. In case of PP, team management tried something to create balance in the side for one match and we should not consider that as a solution for injuries to our regular openers. These gambles backfire more often than not.

I agree - opening is a specialist job, and cannot be mucked about. If we win this Test, would like to see Herwadkar in the 4th test.

[Cricketics]

2 hours ago, Samcric said:

Don't you think that would be a bit unfair on the openers who have performed in FC? If they can't get in the Indian side if they have performed and the regular openers are injured, what do they perform for? I can understand a scenario where an opener pulls up a muscle on the morning of the match and you go with the best possible option. But if you know your opener(s) carry a niggle and you are unsure about their participation in the coming match, you should definitely have specialist opener(s) as back up.

 

Would be interesting to see how many people change their minds here once they see PP get out to an attempted cover drive in the first over of Day 1 against Broad/Anderson. Then they may realize the value of a regular opener, leaving balls outside offstump in the first hour and waiting for the pitch to ease out in the post-lunch session.

 

I can still understand the move if PP was someone like a Sehwag (in tests) or Rohit Sharma (in ODIs) who you would imagine to have more time while playing shots than the average batsmen. That's the hallmark of a batsman who picks up length early and has a good eye. Then, you see the potential of an opening batsman in them and want to give them an extended run. In case of PP, team management tried something to create balance in the side for one match and we should not consider that as a solution for injuries to our regular openers. These gambles backfire more often than not.

I absolutely agree that it is extremely harsh on the the performers of FC, but then I also believe thst it will be extremely harsh on these openers who if picked and fail in 1-2 test and England some how win a test, they might then be dropped for a while and might not get picked again for Indian team again. This particular Indian test team has had too many changes. Our regular openeres have either been struggling or injured. So bringing a new opener along with another opener who is coming back from injury can massively hurt India. Incase our middle order fails and openers fail too, we could be lookig at a really below par score and giving England a chance to come back. One can not expect the come come back guy from injury and the new prolific scorer of fc, to score right away in Indian team. And hence I believe, the best is to use Parthiv for at least this series and then after the series is over, sort out your long term batting combination.

 

 

[Cricketics]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

I agree - opening is a specialist job, and cannot be mucked about. If we win this Test, would like to see Herwadkar in the 4th test.

That is the best option for me. Win the series by 4th rest and then make some important changes and allow the FC talent to feature in the team. 

[Vijy]

20 hours ago, Cricketics said:

That is the best option for me. Win the series by 4th rest and then make some important changes and allow the FC talent to feature in the team. 

That would be the right way to go, but I think that Team Kohli is focused a lot of winning... not sure how much importance they give to building future .

[SUMO]

Pappu looks the best to continue till pant/kishan/samson anyone becomes exprienced and ready for India.
he is certainly better bat than saha little doubtful about keeping though.
 

[express bowling]

21 hours ago, Cricketics said:

I absolutely agree that it is extremely harsh on the the performers of FC, 

 

I am discussing a related but slightly  different issue here.....

 

For FC performance to carry more value, there should be separate stats available for  the more competitive FC matches against strong teams ( via a detailed querying system, like in international matches )......like  A team matches, Duleep Trophy games, matches against touring international teams ( though not always strictly FC ), knock-out matches of Ranji Trophy etc.

 

There are so many league level Ranji matches that cricketers play against weak oppositions that their FC stats are diluted.

 

Also, more Duleep trophy matches would make our FC better....perhaps a league format featuring 4 or 5 strong teams.

 

For this reason, it is generally seen that captains and coaches don't  hold the FC performers in high esteem unless their style of play impresses them.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2016 by express bowling