No Fast bowling coach for the Indian cricket team, Umesh learning from "Sanjay Bhai and Anil Bhai"

[gattaca]

19 minutes ago, express bowling said:

You will be happy to know that TA Sekhar was considered as a genuine fast bowler in his time and some thought that he was the fastest bowler in the world around 1984, despite  having the WI quicks ruling the world. Whether that is true or not, the guy had pace.

 

I agree with you completely that even if a medium pacer becomes a coach, that does not mean that he would tell his proteges to cut down on pace.  (  It is also possible that ...that person actually bowled with full effort and at the top end of his pace but lacked natural pace. )

Cough cough venkatesh prasad. He turned good bowlers in to trundlers.

[express bowling]

16 minutes ago, gattaca said:

Cough cough venkatesh prasad. He turned good bowlers in to trundlers.

Prasad was a seamer who bowled at the bottom end of his pace range by choice. 

 

 

[SecondSlip]

Brett Lee will be the best option 

[SUMO]

need someone to tell our seamers how to bowl overseas bcoz historically and currently also all the indian seamers have done well in home conditions.
since zaheer & srinath, only two appropriate choice are not available, we should go for foreign coach.
but then shami umesh are not from well educated background...language could be a hindrance
pakistani coach like wasim ( has helped shami and ishant a lot during kkr stint ) would be the best, it could create a controversy though

[_ramkumar]

What about Shoaib bhai... he will do anything for

He is indisciplined and controversial though.

 

 

[MCcricket]

Gillespie is a good option, also would love to see Shane Bond, M Pringle did a good job with Rajasthan earlier, T Shekhar ain't a bad option, Akhtar to me would have been best option with Bond , also one Bowler who comes to my mind is Fannie de Villiers, skillful n smart,Brett Lee is a good option too

Edited November 26, 2016 by MCcricket

[Muloghonto]

why do we need a high-profile coach ? Infact, high-profile coaches are a bad idea 99% of the time. 

If you'd notice, there is a reason why 99% of the greatest coaches in every single sport was a mediocre or sub-standard player. 

This is because, average people know far better how to motivate and impart advice than super-stars.

Like, can you imagine the face of Mohammed Shami if Wasim says 'with Cook, you need to get the ball to swing into him, pitch on leg and middle on a good length, bounce to his rib-cage and then cut sharply away. he will nick it to 2nd slip. Easy!' ??

Its like Maradona coaching and saying 'just dribble past 3 guys and make a perfect pin-point cross and your job is done'. 

 

[kosingh]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

why do we need a high-profile coach ? Infact, high-profile coaches are a bad idea 99% of the time. 

If you'd notice, there is a reason why 99% of the greatest coaches in every single sport was a mediocre or sub-standard player. 

This is because, average people know far better how to motivate and impart advice than super-stars.

Like, can you imagine the face of Mohammed Shami if Wasim says 'with Cook, you need to get the ball to swing into him, pitch on leg and middle on a good length, bounce to his rib-cage and then cut sharply away. he will nick it to 2nd slip. Easy!' ??

Its like Maradona coaching and saying 'just dribble past 3 guys and make a perfect pin-point cross and your job is done'. 

 

 

We don't need a high profile fast bowling coach, but at the very least we need a smart bowling coach who is also a good communicator. I can't think of many former Indian fast bowlers who were both smart and also good communicators. Zaheer? Agarkar?

 

[Muloghonto]

7 minutes ago, kosingh said:

 

We don't need a high profile fast bowling coach, but at the very least we need a smart bowling coach who is also a good communicator. I can't think of many former Indian fast bowlers who were both smart and also good communicators. Zaheer? Agarkar?

 

I am saying they don't need to be Zaheer or Agarkar. A good coach can be someone you literally never heard of as a player. In fact, as i said, most good/excellent coaches were people who barely played any international cricket/at the highest league of the sport.

 

[Sooda]

Bit odd also that Bangar is the batting coach, he was a decent batsmen for sure but surely there are better options? Coach should be someone who can teach the batsmen new things, iron out chinks etc, could argue that all Indias first choice top 5 are better than Bangar was, how will he help them?

Edited November 27, 2016 by Sooda

[Malcolm Merlyn]

11 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

why do we need a high-profile coach ? Infact, high-profile coaches are a bad idea 99% of the time. 

If you'd notice, there is a reason why 99% of the greatest coaches in every single sport was a mediocre or sub-standard player. 

This is because, average people know far better how to motivate and impart advice than super-stars.

Like, can you imagine the face of Mohammed Shami if Wasim says 'with Cook, you need to get the ball to swing into him, pitch on leg and middle on a good length, bounce to his rib-cage and then cut sharply away. he will nick it to 2nd slip. Easy!' ??

Its like Maradona coaching and saying 'just dribble past 3 guys and make a perfect pin-point cross and your job is done'. 

 

 

Wasim Akram was a genius,like Tendulkar or Warne. we dont someone like him.But we also dont want someone like Bharat Arun,Eric Simmons or Joe Dawes who have no international bowling performance of repute.

 

Taking wickets is an art,an art that only those who know it can teach you properly.Dont need a genius but need a coach who himself was a good international bowler.Damien Fleming,Craig Mcdermott,Shane Bond,Fanie De Villers etc all fit the bill.

 

And in other sports there are managers and specialist technical coaches,different roles. Bowling coach is such a specialist technical position.

 

Anyone who is in doubt about why we need a good international player as a bowling coach just needs to listen to Sourav Ganguly from 2014 AUS tour.

[sandeep]

26 minutes ago, Sooda said:

Bit odd also that Bangar is the batting coach, he was a decent batsmen for sure but surely there are better options? Coach should be someone who can teach the batsmen new things, iron out chinks etc, could argue that all Indias first choice top 5 are better than Bangar was, how will he help them?

Bangar is a very underrated coach.  Its always the average players who worked hard to maximize their limted talent as players who tend to go on to be successful coaches.  Sure that's generalizing a bit, but Bangar has got a decent track record by now - VK and AK both seem to trust him.  

 

On Zak's demands for compensation?  what IS the going rate for bowling coaches these days?  Surely they could have negotiated a bit with Zak and made it work?  I think he would be worth a try, given that we seem to have a quality pack of pace bowlers now - get a bit more out of them and we are on our way to a legit dominating force as #1.  

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Bangar is a very underrated coach.  Its always the average players who worked hard to maximize their limted talent as players who tend to go on to be successful coaches.  Sure that's generalizing a bit, but Bangar has got a decent track record by now - VK and AK both seem to trust him.  

 

On Zak's demands for compensation?  what IS the going rate for bowling coaches these days?  Surely they could have negotiated a bit with Zak and made it work?  I think he would be worth a try, given that we seem to have a quality pack of pace bowlers now - get a bit more out of them and we are on our way to a legit dominating force as #1.  

The problem with Zakk was he wanted 4cr thats $600k plus for only 100 days a year.You cannot be the coach of Indian National Cricket Team as a part time job.

[Soorma_Bhopali]

12 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

The problem with Zakk was he wanted 4cr thats $600k plus for only 100 days a year.You cannot be the coach of Indian National Cricket Team as a part time job.

When the likes of Karan Sharma are getting picked in IPL for 2-3crores for 6 weeks' work,then EE cannot blame Zaheer to demand 4crore for 100 days work after track history of 15 yrs of service to national team

[Malcolm Merlyn]

When the likes of Karan Sharma are getting picked in IPL for 2-3crores for 6 weeks' work,then EE cannot blame Zaheer to demand 4crore for 100 days work after track history of 15 yrs of service to national team

You cannot compare salaries of a coach and a player.

[sandeep]

20 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

The problem with Zakk was he wanted 4cr thats $600k plus for only 100 days a year.You cannot be the coach of Indian National Cricket Team as a part time job.

Zak doesn't really have experience or track record as bowling coach.  A part-time trial would have been mutually beneficial.  An extra crore or so wouldn't be any skin off of BCCI's back.  But I understand that every coach's contract becomes a reference point for future hires and negotiations, so there's that.  But surely something could have been worked out?  Anyone know Kumble's compensation?  Bangar's?  

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Zak doesn't really have experience or track record as bowling coach.  A part-time trial would have been mutually beneficial.  An extra crore or so wouldn't be any skin off of BCCI's back.  But I understand that every coach's contract becomes a reference point for future hires and negotiations, so there's that.  But surely something could have been worked out?  Anyone know Kumble's compensation?  Bangar's?  

Kumble gets what Shastri used to get.More than 1mn USD.

You dont hire part time coaches for National teams.This is not a camp.Indian team plays 180 days a year so he wouldnot have been available half the time.

[Ironhide]

9 hours ago, sandeep said:

Bangar is a very underrated coach.  Its always the average players who worked hard to maximize their limted talent as players who tend to go on to be successful coaches.  Sure that's generalizing a bit, but Bangar has got a decent track record by now - VK and AK both seem to trust him.  

 

On Zak's demands for compensation?  what IS the going rate for bowling coaches these days?  Surely they could have negotiated a bit with Zak and made it work?  I think he would be worth a try, given that we seem to have a quality pack of pace bowlers now - get a bit more out of them and we are on our way to a legit dominating force as #1.  

 

9 hours ago, Soorma_Bhopali said:

When the likes of Karan Sharma are getting picked in IPL for 2-3crores for 6 weeks' work,then EE cannot blame Zaheer to demand 4crore for 100 days work after track history of 15 yrs of service to national team

 

9 hours ago, sandeep said:

Zak doesn't really have experience or track record as bowling coach.  A part-time trial would have been mutually beneficial.  An extra crore or so wouldn't be any skin off of BCCI's back.  But I understand that every coach's contract becomes a reference point for future hires and negotiations, so there's that.  But surely something could have been worked out?  Anyone know Kumble's compensation?  Bangar's?  

 

BCCI is ready to pay in the range of 4-6 crores for a good bowling coach but they are looking for a full time bowling coach for the Indian cricket team, not a part-time 100 day ( 4 crores) coaching stint which Zaheer demanded and was rightfully refused. 

 

Zaheer has his own commentary and Business commitments which means he can't take a full time coaching role, Indian bowlers who need part-time advise can anyway contact him during the tour as he is available as commentator just like Wasim and Shoaib used to help Indian bowlers.

[MechEng]

Imran Khan should quit politics and coach Indian phasst bowlers. Why waste time and energy fighting the losing battle of becoming a PM when you can spend your old age by earning money and living peacefully?