Anyone actually seen Rishabh Pant keep?

[BeautifulGame]

4 minutes ago, King Tendulkar said:

No one says is not ready . But no one can say he is ready 

 

as no one seen him keep lol he could be ten times worse then patel or ten times better then Healy .

 

the point is no one knows yet 

 

all to be revealed soon 

Hence its perfect time to try him against a weak Australian team at home.

[BeautifulGame]

2 minutes ago, maniac said:

The fact is,he is a once in a generation talent with the bat...unless he is Kamran Akmal re incarnate than I don't see why we need to be too worried about his keeping.

 

If Gilchrist can take his keeping to the next level in his mid 20's than sure a 19 year old has a huge upside especially when he is batting like a dream at the moment.

 

Tests sure...Saha has not done too bad to be totally discarded....he needs to be a understudy and in the scheme of things but yes this is our future.

 

As I said he has to be Kamran Akmal level bad and Afridi level brain dead for us to panic.

Pretty average with bat and ball.Have the iCF is calling for Parthiv to play overseas sums it up about Saha's perofrmance.Even his keeping despite all the hype is below average at best.

[putrevus]

If his keeping is serviceable , he should be playing against Australia in tests. There is no way he is keeping in ODIs. Dhoni  was never great in T20s may be he should retire and let this guy keep in T20s.

[Muloghonto]

12 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

No one has seen Pant keep because none of the Ranji matches this season were televised .

So all this stuff about Pant as wicket keeper may not be ready is pure speculative nonsense .

It's high time Pant gets in the test team.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Actually, given how long keepers tend to take to mature, thinking he is good enough now is speculative nonsense.

If Pant gets in the test team, he'd pretty much be the first keeper in HISTORY to play test cricket after just 1 season of FC cricket. 

I don't care how good Pant's batting is, he needs to be a bonafide keeper first, because thats the primary need for India. If he needs another 2-3 years of FC cricket to become good enough to keep in tests, so be it. 

[King Tendulkar]

Test keepers glove work needs to be better then serviceavkle . Especially in india we're stand up to stumps 

 

patel and bairstow glove work both awful . Missed chances . Bairstow cost big . Patel lucky as one sided games . What if close games then keepers glove work can make or break it 

 

this is not about pant I say this as he maybe excellent keeper . Just general point . 

 

[King Tendulkar]

3 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Actually, given how long keepers tend to take to mature, thinking he is good enough now is speculative nonsense.

If Pant gets in the test team, he'd pretty much be the first keeper in HISTORY to play test cricket after just 1 season of FC cricket. 

I don't care how good Pant's batting is, he needs to be a bonafide keeper first, because thats the primary need for India. If he needs another 2-3 years of FC cricket to become good enough to keep in tests, so be it. 

Yes I very very much doubt hisnkeeping will be good enough for tests yet .

 

amazing if it is 

[King Tendulkar]

This thread proves my point lol

 

he could be awful keeper or brilliant keeper . Fact is no one knows as no one seen him keep lol

 

when you reckon we will get to see him keep properly live on tv ?

[BeautifulGame]

17 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Actually, given how long keepers tend to take to mature, thinking he is good enough now is speculative nonsense.

If Pant gets in the test team, he'd pretty much be the first keeper in HISTORY to play test cricket after just 1 season of FC cricket. 

I don't care how good Pant's batting is, he needs to be a bonafide keeper first, because thats the primary need for India. If he needs another 2-3 years of FC cricket to become good enough to keep in tests, so be it. 

You dont need to be to replace Parthiv Patel or Wriddaman Saha

Edited January 12, 2017 by BeautifulGame

[putrevus]

Ian Healy got into tests after just one season.Warne  considers him best wicket keeper he played with, this notion that Keeper has to mature or he needs so many years in first class cricket is all nonsense.

 

As long as his keeping is serviceable there is no need for this guy to rot in first class cricket. Saha was called wonderful keeper did we not see him drop catches in Rajkot test.Pant has five home tests to get his bearings right and then when India travels overseas his bat is going to be very handy.Ideally you want him to start in odis and t20s but he has stumbling block called Dhoni who is not letting go even in T20s.

Edited January 12, 2017 by putrevus

[King Tendulkar]

Cricknfo report on today's match says he kept solidly . Good signs 

[express bowling]

39 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

You dont need to be to replace Parthiv Patel or Wriddaman Saha

There is a huge difference between Saha's keeping and Parthiv's keeping.

 

Saha is a good keeper.

[putrevus]

PP was awful even after maturing so many years in first class cricket, Dhoni was not great keeper when he started he worked hard to become very good against spinners and okay against fast bowlers. Pant needs to debut at home when spinners are playing major role because even if he makes few mistakes spinners should be good enough to over them.

But if he starts his keeping stint overseas our  fast bowlers are not good enough to overcome his mistakes and his confidence will be dented.

Edited January 12, 2017 by putrevus

[King Tendulkar]

17 minutes ago, express bowling said:

There is a huge difference between Saha's keeping and Parthiv's keeping.

 

Saha is a good keeper.

Agree 

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, BeautifulGame said:

You dont need to be to replace Parthiv Patel or Wriddaman Saha

We are not looking to replace below average/average with another average keeper, we need a GREAT keeper. India is not short on batting talent, particularly for those who are not openers. We also have allrounders or 'almost allrounders' in test cricket to elongate our batting - people like Ashwin, Jadeja, Jayant & Bhuvi are all in the mix for the test team and all of them can hold a bat. 

So we are better off taking our newer talents like Rishabh and Kishan and making them the best keeper they can be before we blood them, rather than just look for Wriddhiman Saha version 2. 

[Muloghonto]

57 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Ian Healy got into tests after just one season.Warne  considers him best wicket keeper he played with, this notion that Keeper has to mature or he needs so many years in first class cricket is all nonsense.

 

As long as his keeping is serviceable there is no need for this guy to rot in first class cricket. Saha was called wonderful keeper did we not see him drop catches in Rajkot test.Pant has five home tests to get his bearings right and then when India travels overseas his bat is going to be very handy.Ideally you want him to start in odis and t20s but he has stumbling block called Dhoni who is not letting go even in T20s.

Ian Healey is one of the greatest keepers of all time. Definitely the best all-round keeper (to pacers & spinners) i've ever seen. So yes, if you are THAT good, sure, after 1 season is good enough. But unless Pant is that good, we need to make him that good. Our bowling attack isn't the best in the world, nor is it actually world class. We need a keeper who will hang on to every chance more than yet another serviceable keeper who will be good with the bat. 

Pant needs another 2-3 first class seasons before he develops the strength & technical finesse to be a great keeper in Tests.

 

[BeautifulGame]

33 minutes ago, express bowling said:

There is a huge difference between Saha's keeping and Parthiv's keeping.

 

Saha is a good keeper.

Yes Saha is a better keeper but poorer batsman when compared with Parthiv.So both are below average contributers as Keeper-Batsman.And neither is world class in one aspect to compensate for the other.And Pant has the potential to be .

[putrevus]

30 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Ian Healey is one of the greatest keepers of all time. Definitely the best all-round keeper (to pacers & spinners) i've ever seen. So yes, if you are THAT good, sure, after 1 season is good enough. But unless Pant is that good, we need to make him that good. Our bowling attack isn't the best in the world, nor is it actually world class. We need a keeper who will hang on to every chance more than yet another serviceable keeper who will be good with the bat. 

Pant needs another 2-3 first class seasons before he develops the strength & technical finesse to be a great keeper in Tests.

 

Ian Healy when he was picked  was a surprise selection as well. I do not see Saha as that great improvement over Dhoni as far keeping is concerned and batting wise it is not even a comparison.Pant has skills to be better batsman than Dhoni and unless his WK skills are horrible there is no need for him to have any more apprenticeship.

 

SA made that huge mistake of not playing Dekock in tests against India when he was thumping Indians in ODIS as they thought he was not ready.Dane Vilas was not only horrible batsman but his so called great keeping made no difference.You need to take gamble on a talented youngster and let him face the best  and if he is as talented as you think then he will come out on top. Dekock is now one of best WKs and most existing batsman in the world.

 

 PP was given break very early and he showed he was not good enough keeper then even though his batting was okay. Even after a decade in first class cricket PP again showed he does not have enough skills to be good keeper. Karthik is another example on paper he has everything, his batting technically is miles ahead of Dhoni and his keeping is not shabby either. His main problem is he does not have mental capability to handle pressure, it got so bad for him in Srilanka PP had to be called to replace him. Both of them just do not have what it takes period . Either you have it or you don't have what it takes to succeed at highest level.Pant has done enough in my view to be given a chance as long as his keeping is okay he does not have to be Bob Taylor or Alan Knott .

Edited January 12, 2017 by putrevus

[PBN]

i though tthe u19 wc was telecast in which pant was keeping

[Muloghonto]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Ian Healy when he was picked  was a surprise selection as well. I do not see Saha as that great improvement over Dhoni as far keeping is concerned and batting wise it is not even a comparison.Pant has skills to be better batsman than Dhoni and unless his WK skills are horrible there is no need for him to have any more apprenticeship.

 

SA made that huge mistake of not playing Dekock in tests against India when he was thumping Indians in ODIS as they thought he was no ready.Dane Vilas was not only horrible batsman but his so called great keeping made no difference.You need to take gamble on a talented youngster and let him face the best  and if he is as talented as you think then he will come out on top. Dekock is now one of best WKs and most existing batsman in the world.

 

 PP was given break very early and he showed he was not good enough keeper then even though his batting was okay. Even after a decade in first class cricket PP again showed he does not have enough skills to be good keeper. Karthik is another example on paper he has everything, his batting technically is mile ahead than Dhoni and his keeping is not shabby either. His main problem is he does not have mental capability to handle pressure, it got so bad for him in Srilanka PP had to called to replace him. Both of them just do not have what it takes period . Either you have it or you don't have what it takes to succeed at highest level.Pant has done enough in my view to be given a chance as long as his keeping is okay he does not have to be Bob Taylor or Alan Knott .

This is where i will disagree. Pant needs his wicketkeeping skills to be EXCELLENT to be in consideration. We need an EXCELLENT keeper far more than we need an excellent batsman who's keeping isn't horrible. 

As for DeKock, he too had to wait for 3 years before playing test cricket after making his FC debut. You know why ? Because South Africa is in the business of having excellent KEEPERS. Who unless you are Ian Healy-esque in keeping talent, take 2-3 years to develop strength, stamina and technique to be an excellent keeper.

Keeping isn't about 'either you have it or you don't' for youngsters. Most keepers take till their early-mid 20s to develop keeping skills AND the back strength to keep throwing themselves around/squatting for hours without wrecking them. 

We need a Bob Taylor/Ian Healy/Alan Knott more than we need a Dhoni. 

As i said, especially in tests, we are not lacking for batting options,at home or at overseas.

At home, 2 of the 3 spinners we pick are out of Ashwin, Jadeja and Jayant, all 3 of them can contribute 25-30 runs consistently with the bat. 
Overseas, we are likely to play 3 pacers minimum and of the 3 pacers, Bhuvi can contribute 20-25 runs with the bat too. 

But our bowling is not good enough, especially overseas, to generate 25 chances per test to account for 4-5 dropped catches per match. Our glaring weakness currently is our slip catching, closely followed by the lack of a GREAT wicketkeeper. Saha is adequate but nothing more. In the 2-3 years we still have out of Saha before he physically declines, we should spend it making Pant/Kishan the best keeper they can be. Their batting, unless it is a <30 average guy, is going to be a bonus. Their keeping skills, is what is going to be the difference between us winning or losing, particularly overseas.

 

[Mosher]

11 minutes ago, PBN said:

i though tthe u19 wc was telecast in which pant was keeping

I think Ishan was the keeper in U19 WC.