Umesh Yadav : An enigma

[Cricketics]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 I am not talking about an official policy here....which is why  I  said   " policy "        : )

I know but I am also sharing how IPL is actially the reason why the bowlers have gotten better and wanting to bowl faster. 

[Mosher]

12 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Sure, but he's sucked or the last 4 tests. Back of the bus. As i explained earlier, IMO it would be silly of India to continue giving him test cricket chance, if his performance is not adequate of a #3 pacer, given that he has been given a lot of international games in the last year. 
That is giving too many chances without getting results from a guy who should be hitting his peak. 

If he deserves chances, let him show us he can either take wickets in the bunches or keep batsmen quiet for an entire innings. 

Till then, the ball should be in Bumrah, Pandya & Bhuvi's court. 

Let them fail before we settle for Yadav and his crap bowling with too few wickets and too much runs leaked.

 

Important thing is Umesh created chances and never let up the intensity. He can't do much if catches keep getting dropped. Please have a look at the below thread some 7 catches were dropped off his bowling. You keep harping on him leaking when the stats show otherwise. An econ. rate of 2.83 since the SA series as @express bowling showed is not "leaking runs".

 

 

[kira]

Just like dhoni was biased against fast bowlers and preferred to play trundlers, kohli is biased against medium fast bowlers like bhuvi and prefers to play fast bowlers like umesh ahead of him even though bhuvi is a much improved bowler and should definitely play ahead of umesh in the odis at least, I have rarely seen bhuvi taken to the cleaners and I regularly see umesh getting a phainty 

[Cricketics]

6 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

bumrah is playing, shami is injured ,pandya is also playing mohit is not bowling that well dhawal is injured,it is basically bhuvi vs umesh ,i like bhuvi and have no problem in him being in the team over umesh but hype is created as if there are many alternatives over umesh .

Umesh's supporters have listed out many bowlers earlier as possible replacements. I honestly haven't watched MD  Siraj other than one clio. I have watched other ones and there is no harm in trying those guys and keep them in the squad and rotate with  Shami and Bumrah. Because lets be honest, even Bumrah might not play every game so he will need to be rotated after champions trophy is over. Till champions trophy he will play every game. So it is good to have more options so we can always rest someone and give someone new a chance. 

[Cricketics]

Just now, kira said:

Just like dhoni was biased against fast bowlers and preferred to play trundlers, kohli is biased against medium fast bowlers like bhuvi and prefers to play fast bowlers like umesh ahead of him even though bhuvi is a much improved bowler and should definitely play ahead of umesh in the odis at least, I have rarely seen bhuvi taken to the cleaners and I regularly see umesh getting a phainty 

Too early to say about Kohli. Eventually Kohli will play Bumrah and will be his go to man for picking the wickets in both the formats. I think they will form a good p'ship. 

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, Cricketics said:

I know but I am also sharing how IPL is actially the reason why the bowlers have gotten better and wanting to bowl faster. 

IPL started 9 years back....we are seeing this trend in the last 3 years or so.

 

Pick only  Vinay Kumar, Sandeep Sharma and Rishi Dhawan for 2 years in test matches and ODIs and see the effect it has on the pace of our  next-gen seam  bowlers.      : )

[Cricketics]

Just now, express bowling said:

IPL started 9 years back....we are seeing this trend in the last 3 years or so.

 

Pick only  Vinay Kumar, Sandeep Sharma and Rishi Dhawan for 2 years in test matches and ODIs and see the effect it has on the pace of our  next-gen seam  bowlers.      : )

IPL won't bring you instant results but it has helped bowlers like Bumrah etc to become better. I will gove more credit to IPL than anything. Not in the case of Shami but surely for many batsman and also bowlers who are coming up and have played some games.

 

Even if they did not do well, just spending time with big players rubs of so much on them and they end up wantinf to be like them. 

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

IPL won't bring you instant results but it has helped bowlers like Bumrah etc to become better. I will gove more credit to IPL than anything. Not in the case of Shami but surely for many batsman and also bowlers who are coming up and have played some games.

 

Even if they did not do well, just spending time with big players rubs of so much on them and they end up wantinf to be like them. 

 

It has worked both ways...we have seen Munaf, RP , Irfan etc, fade away after the IPL came.

[Mosher]

6 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

It is not premature. Many want him out. It is a popular view. Even many of you guys who are his supporter also have recently posted that you want him repalced for someone different. This thread is for the fufure od Indian ODI cricket. If we need to win champions trophy, we need to try different options than Umesh and that can only happen if we drop him. Now if new users come and reply in this thread in support of Umesh, then surely they will be quoted again by us and the discussion will continue which might continue to piss a  lot of his supporters and that is the nature of the forum. Can't help. 

Umesh will still not play in Champions trophy. He will probably be in the squad but Shami and Bumrah will be the pacers. Umesh is only playing here because Shami is injured. Bhuvi should have played in the 1st ODI but the team management thought otherwise. Anyway don't think Umesh will be in ODI squad after champions trophy. The selectors and team management want "experienced" players for the Champions trophy and they will not experiment with young players in a major tournament.

[express bowling]

18 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

 

kids are a lot more observant than just watching who gets hit and who takes wickets they watch actions ,bowling speeds and it also gives confidence that pace can be generated by indian bodies

 

So true      

 

This was lacking in the past among budding Indian pacers.

 

Young kids,  aspiring to be fast bowlers, will also take heart from the fact that Indian pacers like Pandya are adding some serious pace after starting off as medium-fast, without compromising on accuracy.

Edited January 18, 2017 by express bowling

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, Mosher said:

Important thing is Umesh created chances and never let up the intensity. He can't do much if catches keep getting dropped. Please have a look at the below thread some 7 catches were dropped off his bowling. You keep harping on him leaking when the stats show otherwise. An econ. rate of 2.83 since the SA series as @express bowling showed is not "leaking runs".

 

 

 

Of all the bowlers to play 50% of the last series, he leaked the 2nd most runs (economy), narrowly ahead of England's 3rd choice seamer, Stokes. Thats leaking runs a plenty for the last 5 tests & hardly taking any wickets.

Consistently was our worst seamer. Even with Shami out, he was our worst seamer every single match. Bhuvi had worse economy rate- but even in the match he played with Umesh, he out-performed Umesh. 

 

As i said, we are not talking about a Zaheer khan having an off series here. We are talking about someone who historically has always leaked runs at an alarming rate. Him doing well when RSA were in blockathon mode or a few matches here and there doesnt cement his place. We are not a side so brim-full of pace bowling talents or established fast bowling stars that we can keep giving chances to a guy after a WHOLE YEAR of playing, taking < 2 wickets/match at almost 50 runs average and still going at over 3 rpo. You may say 'oh, 3 rpo ! so its good'. But no, its not.

For one, 3 RPO for a guy who takes wickets @ nearly 50 average is horrible. Especially when he is the most expensive bowler for the year.

Yes, Bhuvi, Shami, Ishant all have better economy for the year.

We cannot give passage to such a guy- not the state our pace attack is at. 

 

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, MultiB48 said:

thats the point there arent many options you have bumrah pandya shami bhuvi ,thats it and pandya has just started bowling a couple of seasons back,

 

kids are a lot more observant than just watching who gets hit and who takes wickets they watch actions ,bowling speeds and it also gives confidence that pace can be generated by indian bodies

 

Kids by grade 7-8 should learn that there is no genetic difference between Pakistani speed demons and rest of the Indian subcontinent. So that is a moot point anyways. If Shoaib Akhtar can generate fearsome pace, so can a Mallu or a Marathi- you just have to find a guy of similar body type. 

 

But if you are talking about young, impressionable pre-teens, then no- Cricketics point is valid. At that age, something as simple as 'Bowling like Ashwin is how to bowl/batting like Kohli is how to bat. Bowling like Umesh....thoo'. because kids are not ego-driven with adult insecurities. They don't give a rat's hiney about what Indians can/cannot do or what the stereotype is. They don't care about veggie, non-veggie, indian, non-indian, they care about results. They are far more individualistic in their understanding and they will simply gravitate towards imitating success. 

[tweaker]

If a young pacer has to be drafted in the team ,Umesh will the 1st to be dropped.

If Shami joins the team ,then Shami,Hardik,Bumrah will be the 1st choice pacers for tournament.

Umesh should make this matches count & should improve his bowling performance.

He should learn from Pandya,who was a very average bowler but has shown lot of improvement in every matches he has bowled now inspite of Pandya being a batting allrounder.

[express bowling]

14 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

nope, phenotypes can be seen but athletic or intelligence  need to be achieved in order to be believed, just reading it from biology books that we are all equal isnt enough, thats how it works,most ppl in india are physically lot smaller and there is a problem when it comes to being a sportperson in india,  otherwise tell me why ind never even attempted producing quicks ,even kapil was told ind dont bowl quick,it is because of the speedometer that we realized ind bowlers are similar pace to others, otherwise if umesh played in the 70s he would have been written off as a medium pacer.

 

most kids will never openly say that they followed umesh but subconsciously they will be lot more confident of their ability to bowl quickly

 

 

So true.

 

 

[maniac]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

It has worked both ways...we have seen Munaf, RP , Irfan etc, fade away after the IPL came.

On the contrary...that 150K bouncer umesh bowled(I think to Duminy) in 2010 IPL made everyone stand up and take notice.

[Laaloo]

8 hours ago, Texan said:

Track the other thread, there are posters who were even trying to justify his atrocious record in ODIs in the last 2 years seduced by his 140k thunderbolts.

Last two years 25 matches 41 wickets at 31.12 Econ 6.18. Is picking wickets a bad thing? Would you rather have a trundler like Bhuvi who barely picks up a wicket a game but gives 10-15 runs less than Umesh who actually picks up pretty important wickets.

[kruiser]

Where is Lambu Sharma? I want to see him back... bowling to Faulkner! 

[tweaker]

Yadav dropped 

[kira]

On 1/18/2017 at 3:31 PM, kira said:

Just like dhoni was biased against fast bowlers and preferred to play trundlers, kohli is biased against medium fast bowlers like bhuvi and prefers to play fast bowlers like umesh ahead of him even though bhuvi is a much improved bowler and should definitely play ahead of umesh in the odis at least, I have rarely seen bhuvi taken to the cleaners and I regularly see umesh getting a phainty 

Like I said, bhuvi is a way better limited overs bowler than umesh, mesh should never be selected ahead of bhuvi ever