putrevus Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 8 minutes ago, rkt.india said: we are not talking about making a team. He will definitely make it. talk here is about India's top 5 cricketer and whether Dhoni will make top 5 or not. How else you determine top five cricketer on what basis do you put Gavaskar or Dravid ahead of Dhoni. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, putrevus said: I would not have both Dravid and Gavaskar in my top five, they will not make all time odi team therefore eliminating them from top five players. Kumble makes top five but he had great competition from Bhajji in early 2000s and did not play WC finals . Dhoni might not be best in any one skill or format but combined he becomes India's best and that makes him top 3. For Indian cricket's Mount Rushmore Dhoni will be part of it. Test cricket will get higher preference, so Dravid and Gavaskar will always be there in top 5. Dravid has 10000 runs in ODIs and he has done enough to warrant place in top 5 all time Indian cricketers. Edited March 3, 2017 by rkt.india King Tendulkar 1 Link to comment
Yoda-esque Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 rofl at the change of subject..MSD obsession at ICF continues!!! Sidhoni, Lord, sscomp32 and 3 others 6 Link to comment
maniac Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 15 minutes ago, Lord said: That can be said for Kumble bhajji or even Dev in Tests Not really.......because we have to have 3-4 allrounders better than Kapil or as as good as Kapil for that to happen but even then eras,etc and so many other factors will make a case for him....just like likes og Ganguly,Laxman at times might get left out from All time Indian XI's based on people's perspectives. Same applies to Kumble Bhajji sure agreed-I mean if Ashwin maintains the kind of performance he has been delivering and wins a couple of overseas games he will move straight ahead. but with Dhoni...it won't take a lot to upstage him as a keeper-bat...people keep clutching on to straws based on captaincy but once we get a keeper-bat than Dhoni,as pure captain we have so many other alternatives. King Tendulkar 1 Link to comment
putrevus Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 1 minute ago, rkt.india said: Test cricket will get higher preference, so Dravid and Gavaskar will always be there in top 5. Dhoni winning World Cups makes him more important thereby he gets more preference. Link to comment
maniac Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, putrevus said: Dhoni winning World Cups makes him more important thereby he gets more preference. So tell me this,if we get a keeper-bat who overtakes Dhoni in the future,you will still play Dhoni in the team as a captain or accommodate Dhoni for his captaincy? Edited March 3, 2017 by maniac Link to comment
Lord Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 1 minute ago, maniac said: Not really.......because we have to have 3-4 allrounders better than Kapil or as as good as Kapil for that to happen but even then eras,etc and so many other factors will make a case for him....just like likes og Ganguly,Laxman at times might get left out from All time Indian XI's based on people's perspectives. Same applies to Kumble Bhajji sure agreed-I mean if Ashwin maintains the kind of performance he has been delivering and wins a couple of overseas games he will move straight ahead. but with Dhoni...it won't take a lot to upstage him as a keeper-bat...people keep clutching on to straws based on captaincy but once we get a keeper-bat than Dhoni,as pure captain we have so many other alternatives. It will be tough to match him as keeper bat in ODIs atleast.In Tests too pure talent doesnt work,so all this talk of Pant is way too soon keeper bat captain in one guy will be tough still.Just his workload was insane. sscomp32 and Shunya 2 Link to comment
maniac Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Just now, Lord said: It will be tough to match him as keeper bat in ODIs atleast.In Tests too pure talent doesnt work,so all this talk of Pant is way too soon keeper bat captain in one guy will be tough still.Just his workload was insane. Captaincy is just an added feature...I mean Ponting will make every Aus X1 as a batsman first.I mean who has more trophies than him right? Sure he may be chosen as captain or may be Benaud or maybe Taylor or Border or Steve Waugh-that is all intangible factors-He will get in as a batsman first. Same with Dhoni-If there is a keeper who overtakes him on pure keeping ability and comes close to him as a bat he will replace Dhoni easily .Right now sure it is Dhoni all the way. We have so many options...Kohli,Ganguly,Kapil can all be captains. sscomp32 1 Link to comment
Sidhoni Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 7 minutes ago, maniac said: Not really.......because we have to have 3-4 allrounders better than Kapil or as as good as Kapil for that to happen but even then eras,etc and so many other factors will make a case for him....just like likes og Ganguly,Laxman at times might get left out from All time Indian XI's based on people's perspectives. Same applies to Kumble Bhajji sure agreed-I mean if Ashwin maintains the kind of performance he has been delivering and wins a couple of overseas games he will move straight ahead. but with Dhoni...it won't take a lot to upstage him as a keeper-bat...people keep clutching on to straws based on captaincy but once we get a keeper-bat than Dhoni,as pure captain we have so many other alternatives. Even though I no longer take you seriously, that is a gem! sscomp32 1 Link to comment
maniac Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Just now, Sidhoni said: Even though I no longer take you seriously, that is a gem! In ODI's yes it will take some doing to match him...in tests and T20's it won't take much. hope that makes you feel better Link to comment
maniac Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Ponting is hands down one of the greatest batsman of all time..any debate? .trophy count is unmatched...any debate?....won pretty much everywhere......any debate? trouble makers like Symonds or Warne-Gilchrist feud were all gelled together because of him. But no one hypes him or makes movies about him like he is giod's gift to humanity. I have always maintained Since Kapil Dev,Dhoni is India's 2nd biggest MVP so far in India's history no doubts but let us be subjective here...people who put him in the same league as Kapil,Sachin or even Kohli etc. have absolutely no clue velu 1 Link to comment
putrevus Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Just now, maniac said: So tell me this,if we get a keeper-bat who overtakes Dhoni in the future,you will still play Dhoni in the team as a captain or accomadate Dhoni for his captaincy? Nobody makes into a team based on his captaincy.I would not rate Dhoni as a great captain anyways. I always thought Dhoni was overrated but you cannot deny him his due has to be top three players for India. Link to comment
putrevus Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 People need to get a grip. Pant has not proved anything, so to say he will be better than Dhoni is just ridiculous.We will revisit when he is still there playing for Indian team in ten years. Ultimate_Game, Shunya and Rasgulla 3 Link to comment
putrevus Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, putrevus said: Nobody makes into a team based on his captaincy.I would not rate Dhoni as a great captain anyways. I always thought Dhoni was overrated but you cannot deny him his due, he has to be top three players for India. Link to comment
putrevus Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 7 minutes ago, maniac said: Ponting is hands down one of the greatest batsman of all time..any debate? .trophy count is unmatched...any debate?....won pretty much everywhere......any debate? trouble makers like Symonds or Warne-Gilchrist feud were all gelled together because of him. But no one hypes him or makes movies about him like he is giod's gift to humanity. I have always maintained Since Kapil Dev,Dhoni is India's 2nd biggest MVP so far in India's history no doubts but let us be subjective here...people who put him in the same league as Kapil,Sachin or even Kohli etc. have absolutely no clue What league are talking about, Dhoni is in his league of his own due to his unique skills.You are underestimating greatness of Dhoni as a wicket keeper for India cricket. WKs were walking wickets or at best no 9 before Dhoni. Just like what Kapil Dev did to Indian fast bowling and allrounders, Dhoni has done to Indian wicket keeping. Sidhoni and Shunya 2 Link to comment
BeautifulGame Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Not really.......because we have to have 3-4 allrounders better than Kapil or as as good as Kapil for that to happen but even then eras,etc and so many other factors will make a case for him....just like likes og Ganguly,Laxman at times might get left out from All time Indian XI's based on people's perspectives. Same applies to Kumble Bhajji sure agreed-I mean if Ashwin maintains the kind of performance he has been delivering and wins a couple of overseas games he will move straight ahead. but with Dhoni...it won't take a lot to upstage him as a keeper-bat...people keep clutching on to straws based on captaincy but once we get a keeper-bat than Dhoni,as pure captain we have so many other alternatives. Sorry did u actually mention Ganguly in all time XI. Please tell us in what universe is Ganguly is in Indian XI ? Seriously can u post ur India 's All time XI.Have to see who r left out for Ganguly Link to comment
putrevus Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 24 minutes ago, Viper said: Even Umesh yadav as captain will win with that Aussie team from 1999-2007 Pointing went downhill from 2007 - 2011 he couldn't build a new team when real ATG's retired That is ridiculous Ponting was the best batsman in that team ,to become captain of that team you need to be something first .So to say anyone can captain is just nonsense. I have not seen any player who wanted to win so bad than Ponting and that is the most important characterstic any captain must possess. Link to comment
maniac Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 12 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said: Sorry did u actually mention Ganguly in all time XI. Please tell us in what universe is Ganguly is in Indian XI ? Seriously can u post ur India 's All time XI.Have to see who r left out for Ganguly No I said Ganguly as an alternative to captaincy because Dhoni's captaincy seems to usually be the focal point over his skills as a player in debates. My point was if we have a better keeper bat than dhoni we are not lost for alternatives for captaincy/ Link to comment
BeautifulGame Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 No I said Ganguly as an alternative to captaincy because Dhoni's captaincy seems to usually be the focal point over his skills as a player in debates. My point was if we have a better keeper bat than dhoni we are not lost for alternatives for captaincy/ I won't have Dhoni as captain in test team but how is Ganguly is an alternative when he isn't even good enough to be in the XI in the first place? Doesn't even make sense seriously. Dravid was India's best test captaincy anyway. Link to comment
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