Lets get it straight - Ball tampering is NOT a big crime

[rkt.india]

8 minutes ago, urnotserious said:

Not only that, he used a foreign object to rough the ball up. Where do you draw the line then? Knife to slice it? Heavy construction tape so that it becomes heavier? Lead to make it weigh differently? 

This is still just ball tampering whichever object you use and should not be equated to crimes like match fixing.

[Straight Drive]

Deserved the ban for various reasons put forward by many posters and more importantly the Aussie public demanded severe action against them. It is a good lesson for other cheaters or other wannabe cheaters. 

 

Both apart from Warner have cried. Lehmann cried as well. So maybe they will quit their cheating habits. But I will only be sure after seeing them play after 1 year.

[urnotserious]

28 minutes ago, Shunya said:

2/3 matches or max 5 games is more than enough for this pre-meditated ball tampering. Its no where similar to fixing n stuff. 

 

Right now the chaos is just pandering/appeasing to the mob who wants to see some blood. The media/social media and some players have been instigating crowd and using their anger to ask for blood. That is just ridiculous. Anybody defending the behaviour of media and instigators are the worst hypocrites as if they have never lied in their life. This mob lynching that is going is actually threat to these players and their family's lives. Hope they keep a watch on them for safety.

Only if such outrage was shown towards actual criminals and corrupted people who have done actual crimes, lot of things would have been better in this world. Right now these guys are just soft target and are being bullied by the mob. Ball-tampering has its own penalties and should have been handled appropriately instead of behaving like they have caught some Osama bin laden reincarnate. Its shameful that people are advocating how this whole circus is being carried out.

What next? Are we going to see public hanging of batsmen who knicks and does not walk or someone claiming a bumped catch? Jeez, what is wrong with people. 

Good call! So next time a world cup or ICC championship is in balance as a captain I'm just going to take a chance and see if I can get away with it. If they don't catch me, I win the world cup/ICC championship.

 

If they do, a 3 match ban. Seems like an amazing deal to me.

 

Instead of an extra bowler I'm going to instill Teller from Penn and Teller to do the sleight of hand and use knife/box cutters/whatever else to tamper the ball. Because even if they catch me, a 5 match ban. Its a breeze. 

 

Most of you guys that are calling for easier penalties are being myopic. 

[urnotserious]

52 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

This is still just ball tampering whichever object you use and should not be equated to crimes like match fixing.

Fixing the ball to win a match is akin to fixing a match. Neither guarantee you a win in the game, one just gives you a better chance. Slightly.

 

And you're completely ignoring the problem AFTER the penalty where if its just a slap on the wrist then illegal tampering will be used as a calculated risk in games that matter given that if caught all they'll get is a 3 or 5 match ban.

 

Totally worth the ban. 

Edited March 30, 2018 by urnotserious

[Trichromatic]

Quote

Steve Smith, David Warner and Cameron Bancroft have been charged with a breach of Article 2.3.5 of the CA Code of Conduct, as the act:

1. was in contrary to the spirit of the game;
2. was unbecoming of a representative or official;
3. is or could be harmful to the interests of cricket; and/or
4. did bring the game of cricket into disrepute.

In respect of the individual players concerned, Cricket Australia advises the following:

Steve Smith was charged with a breach of Article 2.3.5 of the CA Code of Conduct based on:

1. knowledge of a potential plan to attempt to artificially alter the condition of the ball;
2. failure to take steps to seek to prevent the development and implementation of that plan;
3. directing that evidence of attempted tampering be concealed on the field of play;
4. seeking to mislead Match Officials and others regarding Bancroft's attempts to artificially alter the condition of the ball; and
5. misleading public comments regarding the nature, extent and participants of the plan

David Warner was charged with a breach of Article 2.3.5 of the CA Code of Conduct based on:

1. development of a plan to attempt to artificially alter the condition of the ball;
2. instruction to a junior player to carry out a plan to take steps to attempt to artificially alter the condition of the ball using sandpaper;
3. provision of advice to a junior player regarding how a ball could be artificially altered including demonstrating how it could be done;
4. failure to take steps to seek to prevent the development and/or implementation of the plan;
5. failure to report his knowledge of the plan at any time prior to or during the match;
6. misleading Match Officials through the concealment of his knowledge of and involvement in the plan; and
7. failure to voluntarily report his knowledge of the plan after the match

Cameron Bancroft was charged with a breach of Article 2.3.5 of the CA Code of Conduct based on:

1. knowledge of the existence of, and being party to, the plan to attempt to artificially alter the condition of the ball using sandpaper;
2. carrying out instructions to attempt to artificially alter the condition of the ball;
3. seeking to conceal evidence of his attempts to artificially alter the condition of the ball;
4. seeking to mislead Match Officials and others regarding his attempts to artificially alter the condition of the ball; and
5. misleading public comments regarding the nature, extent, implementation and participants of the plan

 

Only Bancroft has been charged with tampering the ball. 

 

 

[Scar]

6 hours ago, urnotserious said:

For the umpteenth time its not that he tampered with the ball. Its the fact that he tried to break the rules of the game in a pre-meditated manner using an inexperienced player who he knew wouldn't say no, just so that he can get an edge in the game. 

 

Imagine you have a South African captain playing a test series where they're tied 1-1 and in the third test against India where India is chasing 250 to win at 101-2. When is he going to get an opportunity like that to win a series in India? Someone with a lower bar for ethics like Smith is going to roll the dice in his favor and cheat because at worst the ban is a test of two if he gets caught.

 

He can lose the series and be the captain who couldnt do it OR cheat like Smith did knowing that ICC is only going to slap him on the wrist.

 

Do you really want to watch a series like that? Nah, the game is way way bigger than Smith and his after the fact, crocodile tears.

 

 

It is preplanned only because they admitted it so. Do you seriously believe faf was a lone act in that zipper gate and graeme smith was totally oblivious to it happening? And even if it is preplanned, the thing is ICC doesn't have different laws for premeditated ball tampering and "man me aya to kr dia wali" ball tampering. A punishment should fit the crime and only reason why I see them being so harsh is because of the mass hysteria surrounding the controversy. 

 

Anyways, they could've the Pakistani way and there's zilch anyone could've done about it. Example, 

 

Exhibit A: 

Smith : It's nothing but a witch hunt against us by South African media who's trying to get back at us by hook or crook for obvious reason. We are proud cricketers of a proud cricketing nation and such acts are beneath us. 

 

Bancroft : I did nothing of such sorts and it's a ploy by south african broadcasters to upset our gameplan. The yellow tape I plunged inside by undies was part of my sunglass and I just did that for my own amusement. (yeah bad reasoning but it's not like we haven't heard worse reasoning before, remember 'I was just smelling the ball from my teeth') 

 

There would've been scrutiny around thr globe for few weeks and people would have moved on and earmarking Smith as one of finest captain in the world much like faf. 

[Tattieboy]

27 minutes ago, Scar said:

It is preplanned only because they admitted it so. Do you seriously believe faf was a lone act in that zipper gate and graeme smith was totally oblivious to it happening? And even if it is preplanned, the thing is ICC doesn't have different laws for premeditated ball tampering and "man me aya to kr dia wali" ball tampering. A punishment should fit the crime and only reason why I see them being so harsh is because of the mass hysteria surrounding the controversy. 

 

Anyways, they could've the Pakistani way and there's zilch anyone could've done about it. Example, 

 

Exhibit A: 

Smith : It's nothing but a witch hunt against us by South African media who's trying to get back at us by hook or crook for obvious reason. We are proud cricketers of a proud cricketing nation and such acts are beneath us. 

 

Bancroft : I did nothing of such sorts and it's a ploy by south african broadcasters to upset our gameplan. The yellow tape I plunged inside by undies was part of my sunglass and I just did that for my own amusement. (yeah bad reasoning but it's not like we haven't heard worse reasoning before, remember 'I was just smelling the ball from my teeth') 

 

There would've been scrutiny around thr globe for few weeks and people would have moved on and earmarking Smith as one of finest captain in the world much like faf. 

What is so difficult to understand??

They were charged for ball tampering by the ICC and punished accordingly. 

They then were charged by their employers Cricket Australia for a whole lot of different things ( please read the charges against each )

The argument you and others of but but Pakistan,  but but South Africa , but but Faf is of NO consequence , none of them were charged by their employers with the charges Smith, Warner and Bancroft  received from their employers 

[CG]

It is preplanned only because they admitted it so. Do you seriously believe faf was a lone act in that zipper gate and graeme smith was totally oblivious to it happening? And even if it is preplanned, the thing is ICC doesn't have different laws for premeditated ball tampering and "man me aya to kr dia wali" ball tampering. A punishment should fit the crime and only reason why I see them being so harsh is because of the mass hysteria surrounding the controversy. 
 
Anyways, they could've the Pakistani way and there's zilch anyone could've done about it. Example, 
 
Exhibit A: 
Smith : It's nothing but a witch hunt against us by South African media who's trying to get back at us by hook or crook for obvious reason. We are proud cricketers of a proud cricketing nation and such acts are beneath us. 
 
Bancroft : I did nothing of such sorts and it's a ploy by south african broadcasters to upset our gameplan. The yellow tape I plunged inside by undies was part of my sunglass and I just did that for my own amusement. (yeah bad reasoning but it's not like we haven't heard worse reasoning before, remember 'I was just smelling the ball from my teeth') 
 
There would've been scrutiny around thr globe for few weeks and people would have moved on and earmarking Smith as one of finest captain in the world much like faf. 

That's why it was dumb for Smith and co to admit it.

[Straight Drive]

Every time Aussie bowlers will get reverse swing, the cameras and opponents will be looking for any ball tampering act. It's going to be extremely difficult for Aussies to cheat again. They will be in spotlight as soon as it reverses.Only a dumb Aussie cricketer will try to cheat henceforth.

[Scar]

2 hours ago, Tattieboy said:

What is so difficult to understand??

They were charged for ball tampering by the ICC and punished accordingly. 

They then were charged by their employers Cricket Australia for a whole lot of different things ( please read the charges against each )

The argument you and others of but but Pakistan,  but but South Africa , but but Faf is of NO consequence , none of them were charged by their employers with the charges Smith, Warner and Bancroft  received from their employers 

Agreed, but people say that they deserve the punishment and all the sorts of comeuppance which I personally don't agree with. At the end of the day, it's the employer who decide their punishment but at the same time, people have right to voice their opinion about an issue and we are doing just that. 

 

Also, it's nauseating to see people taking moral high ground by saying ball tampering and premeditated ball tampering should have different punishment just because of lack of retrospective falsification of other players who might done the same but never admitted to it. 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Scar

[Scar]

1 hour ago, Straight Drive said:

Every time Aussie bowlers will get reverse swing, the cameras and opponents will be looking for any ball tampering act. It's going to be extremely difficult for Aussies to cheat again. They will be in spotlight as soon as it reverses.Only a dumb Aussie cricketer will try to cheat henceforth.

Only when they play outside their den, it's naive to think that they will be caught at home. Even if they reverse it like bananas on Australian grounds, they won't be under the scanner. But yes, overall this action will go a long way in reigning in their urge to cheat. 

[Tattieboy]

39 minutes ago, Scar said:

Agreed, but people say that they deserve the punishment and all the sorts of comeuppance which I personally don't agree with. At the end of the day, it's the employer who decide their punishment but at the same time, people have right to voice their opinion about an issue and we are doing just that. 

 

Also, it's nauseating to see people taking moral high ground by saying ball tampering and premeditated ball tampering should have different punishment just because of lack of retrospective falsification of other players who might done the same but never admitted to it. 

Some made up fantasy statements by Smith and Bancroft the Pakistani way is not an opinion it's just BS 

[vvvslaxman]

Ball tampering is more like chucking rather than fixing. Fixing is beyond that.

[gakgupta]

14 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Absolutely gutted to see the way Smith was crying at presser today or the way he was taken at the airport by dozens of police as if he is a convicted murderer. There are many players who has done ball tampering in the past but no one was treated in this fashion. Yes ball tampering is a cheating but its not as serious offense as match fixing/spot fixing. Giving a top class player like Smith 1 year ban for this is way too harsh.

Ohh yeahh.....

then lets make it legal and allow everyone to carry sand papers, bottle caps, knifes and whatever is easy to make reverse from over number 1....

This rogue didn't do something like this for the first time....In India, he was taking help of the dressing room for the reviews...

Definitely, not someone who should be respected

[putrevus]

Smith and Warner were punished more to appease sponsors. The second thing is CA got their revenge on these two for their role in their pay dispute battle.

 

No player till now have admitted their guilt.Even Afridi who is a serial offender who got caught still got away by not admitting his guilt.

Edited March 30, 2018 by putrevus

[kruiser]

The quantum of punishment is big only to save the Australian Cricket team. This punishment diverts the attention from the fact that entire team was "in" on the ball tampering and that this was not the first instance. My guess is that it will also come out shortly, how the bowlers knew what is going on. 

[Scar]

2 hours ago, Tattieboy said:

Some made up fantasy statements by Smith and Bancroft the Pakistani way is not an opinion it's just BS 

For starters, you need to brush up regarding what opinion means.

 

> Opinion is what a person believes or thinks about something. 

 

So, BS and opinion are not mutually exclusive terms. 

 

Opinion are conjecturable eclectic way of having a discussion, so tell me again why a 'fantasy'  statement (which most cricketers have given in past) is such a far fetched idea? 

 

Or better tell me, right hand to god, before this saga happened, if I enquired about such hypothetical scenerio and asked you about what plausible course of action will player take, 

A) come clean about everything knowing very well the repercussions he would face.  

Or

B) stayed mum and be done with one match ban. That's it. 

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Scar

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, kruiser said:

The quantum of punishment is big only to save the Australian Cricket team. This punishment diverts the attention from the fact that entire team was "in" on the ball tampering and that this was not the first instance. My guess is that it will also come out shortly, how the bowlers knew what is going on. 

Spot on, there is no way in the world that three went out of the way to cheat to help bowlers without bowlers knowing it.

 

Afridi was biting the ball and bowler I forget his name was walking to top of his mark as if nothing unusual was happening.This is team wide plan hatched with full knowledge of coach and bowlers.

 

[Tattieboy]

13 minutes ago, Scar said:

For starters, you need to brush up regarding what opinion means.

 

> Opinion is what a person believes or thinks about something. 

 

So, BS and opinion are not mutually exclusive terms. 

 

Opinion are conjecturable eclectic way of having a discussion, so tell me again why a 'fantasy'  statement (which most cricketers have given in past) is such a far fetched idea? 

 

Or better tell me, right hand to god, before this saga happened, if I enquired about such hypothetical scenerio and asked you about what plausible course of action will player take, 

A) come clean about everything knowing very well the repercussions he would face.  

Or

B) stayed mum and be done with one match ban. That's it. 

 

it's fantasy because you state it after the factual events happened 

You live in your little world of fantasy of but what if ......some of us will live in the real world and discuss the actual facts which have happened 

[Scar]

56 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

it's fantasy because you state it after the factual events happened 

You live in your little world of fantasy of but what if ......some of us will live in the real world and discuss the actual facts which have happened 

So, what option you chose then? 

 

Let me Make it simpler for you. 

 

If you had chosen A, I would've called you delusional much like what you are calling me right now. 

 

If you had chosen B, that would've been much more rational option as there's precedence for that, re - faf, afridi, mark etc. 

 

So chose wisely and answer. Anxiously waiting for your response in the alfresco of my lala-land. 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Scar